Standing up...
Comments
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TGD - Made me chuckle!
Still can't picture what the hell this would look like "When stood up, try to make sure your hips are pushed forward, your back is as straight as possible, and your shoulders are back and down, this will help with ventilation"0 -
cld531c wrote:TGD - Made me chuckle!
Still can't picture what the hell this would look like "When stood up, try to make sure your hips are pushed forward, your back is as straight as possible, and your shoulders are back and down, this will help with ventilation"
Maybe that's the position he adopts when he opens a window? It doesn't make sense otherwise..
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or farts? ;-)0
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If you can sit, then sit; if not, then stand up0
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Some good advice above - don't hit the bottom of the hill 'mid cassette' giving it everything and then keep changing down until you end up in bottom gear. Chances are you will already be in the red before you get to bottom gear and then you have nowhere to go!
Start steady in a lower gear and if it feels too easy, well great! At the point where you are usually changing into bottom gear with steam emitting from your ears, hopefully it should only just be starting to get hard using this new technique! If you can sustain this effort to the top with a decent cadence then you have paced the hill well. If it was realitively easy, then you could have gone a bit harder/ faster. If you are still searching for the de-fibrilator as you summit, you have either paced it spot on for a PB, or gone too hard. If your cadence had dropped to less than 50 and your vision was going dark at the edges, you probably need to a). Get fitter by riding more hills b). Loose weight (which will always help unless you are already down to pro-level body fat proportions) or c). Get even lower gears or finally, d). Buy an electric bike...;-)
Steady spinning is the key when seated. We all vary in abilities on various gradients. I, for instance are much more suited to shallower climbs than many of my 'climber build' waife like mates. They cannot sustain the pace that I can sustain on gradients up to about 7%. When it goes above that gradient I have to drop the gears right down and sit and spin, trying to stay with them. When it goes above about 13% I will stand on the steeper bits and try to sit back down as the gradient lowers again, each time trying to keep the cadence up. When it gets really steep (20%+) it's every man for himself and most will have to stand for as long as possible to just keep moving forwards. This is when a lower body weight really helps compared with bigger/ more powerful riders.
What you will find is that generally your heart rate increases slightly when you stand and climb, which means if you are already up at your threshold, you will tend to go anaerobic when out of the saddle, hence why the standing effort becomes unsustainable and you end up sitting back down again, usually going slower than before you stood up! It is all about pacing, both in and out of the saddle until the stupid steep stiff where it is mind over matter, deep into the red using pure determination to not stop.
So take a leaf out of the pro book and use power or heart rate to ensure you don't go too deep (unless you intend to). This is what the likes of Froome does as he knows exactly what power he can sustain up a climb so he will sit at this to chase down a break or try to ride away etc. I know us mere mortals aren't anything like that, but if you do a threshold power/ heart rate test and then use your Garmin etc you can monitor this as you climb. This is what I do and it works - I know when I am going too deep and have to back off/ just get to the next bit of shallower gradient and get the heart rate back to a sustainable level.
The way to train for this is either hill repeats on a known hill, which you split into 4 sections, or to just ride the hills using each one to go over/ under threshold to improve hill climbing ability.
Regarding the 4 sections hill repeat training. Pick a hill with as close to a steady but challenging gradient as possible. Try the following;
1. Ride the first 2 sections (half the hill) at a steady pace but below threshold. Concentrate on spinning steadily.
2. On the third section, up the pace to threshold heart rate and sustain it and steady spinning cadence (maybe faster cadence than the first bit, or the same in a bigger gear)
3. Last section give it everything you have.myou should crest with your heart rate well into the red and the legs burning with lactate. Keep pushing as hard as you can to the line and try not to fade. It takes mind over matter. If you can change up and actually sprint, then great.
4. Relax, turn around and freewheel down. At the bottom, turn around and go straight back at it again. Your heart rate should recover on the downhill bit, but each repeat will see you starting the climb with it a little higher. If you can do 5-6 of these hill repeats you will get stronger (after some recovery!) Try to do one session a week within your normal riding and your hill climbing will improve. It hurts and the urge to stop after 2-3 will be high. Always try to do 'just one more' when you really want to stop, unless you completely blow of course!
Good luck.
PP0 -
How heavy are you? I'm about 78kg (naked, after a haircut and a dump...) and find climbing out of the saddle quite hard work. Lighter riders will obviously find it easier to stand and, as has been noted, sitting is more energy-efficient.
On longer climbs I tend to stay seated as long as possible and then get up to stretch for short periods and on the steeper bits. On shorter climbs of a couple of hundred metres or so I try to carry as much speed in as possible and then hammer it out of the saddle - this helps if you know where the top is!
So my advice is to keep practicing and lose weight!
Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs0 -
Milemuncher1 wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:
And whatever you do don’t take any advice from that muncher1 chump – as has been proven on multiple threads by other forum posters he’s a serial bullsh*tter and thoroughly offensive.
You need to be careful how you refer to me on this or any other forum. I've reported this as trolling, lets see if the mods do their jobs.
ironic..0 -
Imposter wrote:
ironic..
Indeed.0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:Imposter wrote:
ironic..
Indeed.
Not sure how that was worthy of removal but using autism as an insult wasnt.....0 -
Pilot Pete wrote:So take a leaf out of the pro book and use power or heart rate
FWIW, once I had a meter, it became almost too easy to pace a climb when comparing to doing it without a meter or a HRM. There was no more guess work. I know the route. I know it is an X% climb for so far and I should take about so long to do it.
That means I know in advance what I can spend on the climb.
After you know that, it's just a matter of forcing yourself to trust and work through the pain of maintaining the outputs you're trained to during that effort.
If there's a Cat 3 or 2 climb I know is about 30 minutes, I know I can average close to my threshold up it. I'll put out a little over on the steeper stuff and recover a little below on the shallower stuff. As you save more time the quicker you are on steeper stuff (if you don't blow it up). Almost exactly like doing an interval workout of "over/unders".
So I might expend 400w for a minute up the 20% wall part of the climb out of the saddle, then spin at 200w on the 3-4% stuff for a minute or so. Then gradually dial it back to right at 240-250w when the grade steadies out at 9%.0 -
I like climbing hills (is that odd?). Can't add a lot to the above useful stuff but did wonder why the OP gets back pain climbing. Either some muscles need strengthening or the saddle angle could be wrong.
One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful. If you practise standing a lot you will get good at it and feel quite at home doing it.0 -
Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.0 -
Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.0 -
Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
I'm with Robert on this one.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)0 -
Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.0 -
I stood up ,pulled up, pulled out and fell off. Is that what's supposed to happen.0
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Robert88 wrote:
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
Where was this?0 -
Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.
Well you made some astute observations there. Pulling up only really takes effect, when your feet cramp up in my experience. I’ve ridden with double power meters, and analysed the results, on hilly rides, and to be fair, pulling up, really doesn’t help. However, the relief on the balls of the feet, if you do start to actively pull up, does help, if for no other reason than you don’t experience the foot cramp, that you may do, by not adding some active pulls. You could spend ages getting the cleats and position set up, to minimise this, but really? Can you be arsed?0 -
Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.
Where is this hill that is 30% plus for 350 metres?0 -
Brakeless wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.
Where is this hill that is 30% plus for 350 metres?
The Fred Whitton uses one.0 -
Pulling up while pedalling haha, one of the more ridiculous notions in cycling.0
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Milemuncher1 wrote:Brakeless wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.
Where is this hill that is 30% plus for 350 metres?
The Fred Whitton uses one.
Neither Hardknott or Wrynose are 30% for 350 metres.0 -
burnthesheep wrote:Pilot Pete wrote:So take a leaf out of the pro book and use power or heart rate
FWIW, once I had a meter, it became almost too easy to pace a climb when comparing to doing it without a meter or a HRM. There was no more guess work. I know the route. I know it is an X% climb for so far and I should take about so long to do it.
That means I know in advance what I can spend on the climb ..
This ^^ x 100 for a PM
You can teach yourself to get the best out of what you've got .. including going into the red temporarily to attack\break others or time trailing it perfectly (to get a PR or again break others). It's strangely addictive.
Oh and although I actually like standing while climbing - for longer climbs staying seated always works best for me - just treat it like a TT and get aero 0 -
Brakeless wrote:Milemuncher1 wrote:Brakeless wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.
Where is this hill that is 30% plus for 350 metres?
The Fred Whitton uses one.
Neither Hardknott or Wrynose are 30% for 350 metres.
I'm not trying to convert anyone and I prefer not to give my location. My hill is nowhere near Hardknott or Wrynose, that's for sure! It is well hidden and traffic-free which helps.
Once you have been cycling a while I believe you develop the method that works best for your body. I have been climbing hills for a very long time and I am sure I have muscles that I didn't have when I started!
Listen to what your body tells you.0 -
Robert88 wrote:Brakeless wrote:Milemuncher1 wrote:Brakeless wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:Imposter wrote:Robert88 wrote:One way of increasing power other than standing is to use both legs for power at once. i.e. whilst sitting you pull up with one leg while pushing down with the other. It tests your fitness and leg muscles but I find it useful.
'Pulling up' does nothing for your aerobic power output and studies show that it is no more effective than pedalling normally. It's one of those things which looks like it might make sense, but in reality offers no benefit.
Yes I know there is an opposing view but it works for me - in 'reality' too.
I don't care about studies, after all maybe they weren't doing it right or don't have the right leg muscles? Anyway, it's my body and I'll do what I like with it. :evil:
Meanwhile, I am quite happy to let you do your thing, you'll be relieved to know.
Obviously you can do what ever you think works for you. I'm just pointing out that studies* (which you don't care about) on the topic have found that 'pulling up' with one leg while pushing down with the other is not proven to be as effective or efficient as simply pushing down with alternate legs. In fact pulling up is significantly less efficient than pushing down, predominantly because (to put it in simple terms) our leg muscles are not designed that way. But by all means keep doing it..
(* Coyle 1991, Korff 2007 & Burnes 2014, for eg)
OK. Having an afternoon off I decided to go for a nice hilly ride to study my pedalling action. I discovered that in fact I pull and push when under load for most of the time and am quite happy doing so. I started with a long warm up climb then did a km of 25%, one of the longest hills on a back road that joined the main road to continue climbing at a gentle rate. Not long after joining the main road I was cruising along and then overtaken by a gentleman on a most impressive Cervelo. It was so clean and lovely! And clearly it must have had electronic shift as I never heard a change. I had a bad moment of bicycle envy.. Surprisingly as soon as he passed he seemed to slow down so I tacked onto the back to observe his own pedalling. I couldn't see any sign of pulling up and I was able to keep pace quite easily. It was disappointing to be behind him on the very long, twisty descent because I had to concentrate on him in front. He took the corners very wide which I don't cos you never know what might be coming towards you. At the bottom I turned off rather than follow him and did some more climbing including a very steep (30% plus for 350m) 2.5km climb. En dansant I found that I was still pulling up, rather like running.
I guess I only started pulling up when I converted from toe clips/straps to clipless quite a while back and first noticed it a few years ago on a sportive when my pedal clip tension was too slack and I kept pulling out; it was like being lamed and I struggled on a hill that I wouldn't otherwise. Whilst on the steep climb it occurred to me that pulling up is good for foot circulation on the sole of the foot, my feet were toasty on quite a cold day.
A very enjoyable afternoon, anyway.
Where is this hill that is 30% plus for 350 metres?
The Fred Whitton uses one.
Neither Hardknott or Wrynose are 30% for 350 metres.
I'm not trying to convert anyone and I prefer not to give my location. My hill is nowhere near Hardknott or Wrynose, that's for sure! It is well hidden and traffic-free which helps.
Once you have been cycling a while I believe you develop the method that works best for your body. I have been climbing hills for a very long time and I am sure I have muscles that I didn't have when I started!
Listen to what your body tells you.
I'm happy to be corrected but I don't think there is any road in the UK that is 30% for 350 metres. My question was nothing to do with wanting to know your location it was to find out if your post made any sense as a road of 25% for a km or one of 30% for 350m would be pretty well known to UK cyclists.0
