So you want to buy a smart trainer?
slowmart
Posts: 4,480
I thought I'd share some of the learns I've had as detailed information from Taxc are minimal to say the least and add all the noise on forums about different trainers and their problems led me to share my experience to date. While some reports are alarming I considered that dedicated Facebook pages of users was a landing pad for customers who had issues rather than the owners were are happily training away. I mean manufacturers wouldn't rush a product to market without a robust test environment being in place.... :shock:
ERG mode, sounds great but dependant upon your trainer you may need an ANT + dongle. An unbranded dongle is a third of the cost.
Mats, I wanted to be considerate and keep the noise to a minimum so opted for a training matt from Taxc. The mat and cleats aren't compatible and Ive a couple of small cuts already.
Taxc don't supply rear cassettes and some trainers don't take long rear mechs.
The kit you run the apps or software on has to be of a certain threshold. One thing I overlooked but was fine on which was more to do with luck.
I'm on my second unit as the first didn't work properly and was promptly exchanged with the LBS, all within 48 hours and I have the comfort of a 2 year warranty. Oh and use your credit card so you have two potential routes for a remedy if needed.
That said the experience is immersive and the platforms I've used to date are effective in hitting the right spots. It's a very effective way to train and all the crap drops away when you've completed a session.
Please add your experiences.
ERG mode, sounds great but dependant upon your trainer you may need an ANT + dongle. An unbranded dongle is a third of the cost.
Mats, I wanted to be considerate and keep the noise to a minimum so opted for a training matt from Taxc. The mat and cleats aren't compatible and Ive a couple of small cuts already.
Taxc don't supply rear cassettes and some trainers don't take long rear mechs.
The kit you run the apps or software on has to be of a certain threshold. One thing I overlooked but was fine on which was more to do with luck.
I'm on my second unit as the first didn't work properly and was promptly exchanged with the LBS, all within 48 hours and I have the comfort of a 2 year warranty. Oh and use your credit card so you have two potential routes for a remedy if needed.
That said the experience is immersive and the platforms I've used to date are effective in hitting the right spots. It's a very effective way to train and all the crap drops away when you've completed a session.
Please add your experiences.
“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu
Desmond Tutu
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Comments
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Well I got a tax smart trainer with both ant+ and Bluetooth connection. I've downloaded tax app, their extra app I read somewhere that you need as well to get it working but nothing. I couldn't get it to connect in any way. I've got a dumb trainer!
I got it once to half work. I could up the resistance through the app. It just couldn't work with the tax app training programmes. I never got as far as other apps from third parties.
It's my winter trainer so I've not tried again for a long time. I'm give it another go when it gets darker, colder and wetter.0 -
Bought a kickr snap, ant dongle and laptop.
Plugged it in ... it worked .... no complaints0 -
I bought the Flow Smart last year, downloaded the Tacx app to IPad and plugged in the trainer. Connected via Bluetooth and calibrated, the trainer has been used a lot and has so far been faultless.
The only thing I have found is if the IPad is updated or fully turned off the Tacx app asks to be re connected to a device which is no big deal. IME a far more immersive and 'enjoyable' experience than the old non smart turbo.0 -
Bought a kickr snap last year. Was faulty. Replaced it with a full kickr. Was faulty and Wahoo support shocking.
Recently tried both the flux and neo. Ended up buying the neo. Absolutely brilliant piece of kit. Cost a lot of money but from my experience, is worth every penny compared to the Wahoo and flux.
Only issue with smart trainers is when you are following a specific training plan online or are immersed in zwift, you tend to end up doing training indoor, even when the weather is good outside.
One side note on the mat. Don't bother with anything expensive a £5 yoga mat from aldi is perfect.0 -
After using a "dumb" mag trainer or rollers and my powermeter for indoor training for years, I bought a Tacx NEO. It was in the realms of stupidly expensive no doubt - but paired with Zwift it has been an absolute indoor training game changer for me. Also faultless from day one and oh so quiet.
Had to buy a cassette as it's not included. ANT+ dongle off eBay. Cheap no brand yoga mat underneath. Powerful fan. Sweat thong thingy. Small bluetooth keyboard on the bars.
Happy days in the wattage cottage!0 -
I bought a flux a couple of months ago.
Did all my research about the issues and I'm not put off the "issues" as it has a 1yr warranty from my LBS and 2 years from Tacx.
All the issue posts say how good they are at sending new units out if there is an issue.
I already had a cassette from a spare set of wheels and a mat from my previous dumb turbo. The ANT+ stick is wiggle's lifeline one and I've had 0 connectivity issues with it.
The only thing I didn't really factor was a laptop to run zwift as my old one only runs at 576p, so I bought a new gaming one which can run it at 1080p high.0 -
Dannbodge wrote:The only thing I didn't really factor was a laptop to run zwift as my old one only runs at 576p, so I bought a new gaming one which can run it at 1080p high.
And what a massive difference that makes!
My old laptop struggled to maintain 15fps at 576p... 0 -
MiddleRinger wrote:Dannbodge wrote:The only thing I didn't really factor was a laptop to run zwift as my old one only runs at 576p, so I bought a new gaming one which can run it at 1080p high.
And what a massive difference that makes! My old laptop struggled to maintain 15fps at 576p...
I've not had a chance to use it yet though.
Waiting to get over a knee issue and my OH keeps playing Sims 4 on it all the time 0 -
I bought a Tacx Vortex, it was essentially an expensive paperweight. Changed it for another, same thing...so i returned it and bought a Kickr Snap.
Had a teething issue early on with the power dropping in Zwift, customer support was spot on, had a firmware update sent to me and its been flawless since (touch wood)
Ive got the cheap Ant+ Dongle from Amazon (£10) and its never skipped a beat.
Used Trainer Road for the majority of last winter and found it brilliant. Then switched to Zwift which is much more immersive but the training mode isn't as good.
Zwift academy starts on Friday...6 weeks of structured training for free0 -
Bought Kickr Snap
Linked to iPad
Sweated at lot
No problems
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tl;dr: If you can't tolerate electronics troubleshooting, steer clear and ride your bike outside, otherwise smart trainers are ace, when they work.
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Bought Wahoo Kickr2 in January for my shed as a zwifting rig. Setup is homebuilt gaming PC, connected via powerline/ethernet hardwired to the cable modem in the house by way of an ethernet hub "upstream" of a google wifi mesh network access point which passes the internet access through ethernet from the cable modem to the access point, then the hub, and thence to the powerline router. (This sequencing is important, because zwift mobile link will not work otherwise if you (sensibly) have a hardwired connection to your PC). Graphics quality consistently "High" in Zwift terms (not Ultra), frankly don't care very much: the rollers on Watopia make me queasy enough as it is. Preferred link between sensors and PC is via Ant+, with a suunto movestick ant+ stick sat underneath the Kickr, hanging off a 10m USB extension lead (Chinese brand "Green").
Worked great for three months: total failure of the Kickr's power supply by April. Wahoo replaced without too much trouble, but had to revert to a dumb turbo + power meter for the two weeks of going back and forth: agony, once you go smart, you can't go back.
The replacement unit was fine until June, when intermittent Ant+ dropouts began. These steadily worsened to the point which dropouts were occurring every 30s. Queue more to-ing and fro-ing with Wahoo, but log analysis showed the Ant+ environment was to blame (all sensors were crapping out at the same time, not just the kickr). There is a tedious checklist to sort Ant+ issues out, I think I have isolated it to a faulty/sweat fried Ant+ stick. Rather than replace the stick, I've switched over to bluetooth/zwift mobile link on my phone (which then transmits sensor data to/from the PC). This is more reliable, but depends on the reliability of your wifi network (and your phone's ability to stay connected): if it is prone to dropping connections, you've traded one set of dropouts for another.
Observations:
1) Store support is useless. They simply filter misunderstood troubleshooting tips from the manufacturer that you could get yourself. Unless you just want a refund (not unreasonable!), go to the manufacturer.
2) Manufacturer support is hit or miss. If you're lucky you may get someone who believes you have done the obvious things first.
3) I will not willingly ride a non-smart turbo, including a wattbike (and I've logged more than 100 hours on wattbikes), ever again. ERG mode is a godsend.
4) Zwift makes all the difference. Worth every penny: workouts (which you can build yourself if you don't like the pre-made ones, which are a little odd), racing, group training rides, bimbling around; all linked up to a gamified dopamine delivery system where you will ride indoors when it's sunny to earn enough points to get the next bit of virtual tat.
5) You need a giant fan.0 -
Although I am technically minded, I prefer my kit to work out the box.
Last autumn I was bought a Bkool Smart Go - I borrowed an iPad from work as my iPad is too old, installed Zwift and paired up via Bluetooth and away it went. Not wanting to stick with a borrowed iPad - or Zwift - I bought an Ant+ stick (sunnto?) for my (old) Macbook Pro, plugged that in, downloaded the Bkool simulator - paired that up - which required the stopping of the Garmin Connect software - and away that went ...
I now need to decide what to do this winter - stick with the Bkool simulator - with its ability to load any course at any time, but has a low user count - or move over to Zwift with 0000's of riders, but only a pre-determined track...0 -
Dyrlac wrote:tl;dr: If you can't tolerate electronics troubleshooting, steer clear and ride your bike outside, otherwise smart trainers are ace, when they work.
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Observations:
1) Store support is useless. They simply filter misunderstood troubleshooting tips from the manufacturer that you could get yourself. Unless you just want a refund (not unreasonable!), go to the manufacturer.
Be careful with that as one reviewer on wiggle went that direct to Wahoo and nullified his warranty with Wiggle under UK law. Page 2 of the reviews on the kickr2 review by Sunngjg
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-kickr-sma ... trainer-1/
I'm no legal expert but this made me steer clear of wahoo and its certainly something to be aware of if true.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
Dyrlac wrote:3) I will not willingly ride a non-smart turbo, including a wattbike (and I've logged more than 100 hours on wattbikes), ever again. ERG mode is a godsend.
A wattbike doesn't have ERG mode?
The cycleops bike in the gym at work holds the wattage spot on. I just set the power for the interval and go. If I slow my pedaling or stand, wattage stays the same.
Cost, to me, is the biggest factor of why I don't own one at home. I can't afford $500 for a decent unit. But dumb trainers that couldn't maintain watts vs just resistance.........that would be ludicrously annoying.0 -
Slowmart wrote:Dyrlac wrote:Observations:
1) Store support is useless. They simply filter misunderstood troubleshooting tips from the manufacturer that you could get yourself. Unless you just want a refund (not unreasonable!), go to the manufacturer.
Be careful with that as one reviewer on wiggle went that direct to Wahoo and nullified his warranty with Wiggle under UK law. Page 2 of the reviews on the kickr2 review by Sunngjg
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-kickr-sma ... trainer-1/
I'm no legal expert but this made me steer clear of wahoo and its certainly something to be aware of if true.
Yikes!!! Let me amend to: once you get to the point when you need to return the unit, go back to your retailer.Slowbike wrote:Although I am technically minded, I prefer my kit to work out the box.
I literally can't think of the last bit of electronics kit I bought that worked properly out of the box throughout its service life. Maybe the clock radio next to my bed? I think I have a jinx, but if not, I do wonder how civilians cope with the crappiness of everything.burnthesheep wrote:A wattbike doesn't have ERG mode?
Nope. Wattbike uses a combination of fan and magnetic resistance as opposed to an electronically controlled brake. A good (albeit over-rated) piece of kit, but obsolete. Nearly bought one, so dodged a bullet there.0 -
Dyrlac wrote:Slowbike wrote:Although I am technically minded, I prefer my kit to work out the box.
I literally can't think of the last bit of electronics kit I bought that worked properly out of the box throughout its service life. Maybe the clock radio next to my bed? I think I have a jinx, but if not, I do wonder how civilians cope with the crappiness of everything.
Ah - throughout it's service life is the sticking point - cos I'll make the damm thing work for as long as I can - which may well be longer than it's intended service life ..
Ok - it's not very electronically (well they really) - but I can give you some examples.
Lights - as in bike lights - I bought a Cateye Nanoshot + that hasn't skipped a beat in what ... 4 years? The biggest issue I have is making sure I chose the correct cable to charge it with. It's always turned on & off as expected. Granted, it has just 1 button so what do you think could go wrong? In contrast - I have 2 Cree torches that worked initially, then the original one started sequencing through the modes as I was riding - so I had to dismantle it, rebuild, pad the battery etc etc ... what a load of faff - the second one was a bit better - but still, with a jolt, will drop through to the next setting in the patten - I know what it is, it's the momentary drop in power ...
Piano .. (where's the electronics?) - it's a Digital Piano ... from Korg ... has worked out of the box with absolutely no issue - whether I've just played it or linked it up with Midi (how 90's!).
Bose Mini SoundLink - works most of the time, but sometimes the bluetooth just doesn't want to pair - whether it's the Bose or the other device I don't know - I end up turning the Bose off, flick the bluetooth off/on on the media player then re-pair - it then deigns to work ...
Garmin 800 - works the majority of the time, but I have had it turn off for no reason, mid ride ... it's been replaced (other issues) and now seems stable - no more firmware updating for me!
I can't add any computers in here as that is my dayjob - problems and issues will inevitably come up because I tend to push my devices - that said, my laptop is over 9 years old, even my iPad is getting on for 5 years old now (won't run Zwift
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Bought a Wahoo Kickr, ant+ dongle and laptop.
Plugged it in ... it worked .... no complaints
PS now running Zwift on 27" iMac. Zwift, iMac and Kickr, all brilliant.0 -
Dyrlac wrote:Slowmart wrote:Dyrlac wrote:Observations:
1) Store support is useless. They simply filter misunderstood troubleshooting tips from the manufacturer that you could get yourself. Unless you just want a refund (not unreasonable!), go to the manufacturer.
Be careful with that as one reviewer on wiggle went that direct to Wahoo and nullified his warranty with Wiggle under UK law. Page 2 of the reviews on the kickr2 review by Sunngjg
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-kickr-sma ... trainer-1/
I'm no legal expert but this made me steer clear of wahoo and its certainly something to be aware of if true.
Yikes!!! Let me amend to: once you get to the point when you need to return the unit, go back to your retailer.Slowbike wrote:Although I am technically minded, I prefer my kit to work out the box.
I literally can't think of the last bit of electronics kit I bought that worked properly out of the box throughout its service life. Maybe the clock radio next to my bed? I think I have a jinx, but if not, I do wonder how civilians cope with the crappiness of everything.burnthesheep wrote:A wattbike doesn't have ERG mode?
Nope. Wattbike uses a combination of fan and magnetic resistance as opposed to an electronically controlled brake. A good (albeit over-rated) piece of kit, but obsolete. Nearly bought one, so dodged a bullet there.
New (cheaper) smart Wattbike with ERG was just announced.0 -
Joshgav wrote:
New (cheaper) smart Wattbike with ERG was just announced.
Ho boy, that looks the business. £1499 inc. VAT. Almost as if they had paid attention to feedback. :shock: Had it been available this time last year....
DCR first look:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/09/hands-on-wattbike-introduces-new-atom-stationary-bike-with-antble-and-more.html0 -
Apart from the noise of the thing it does look excellent.0
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Love the aero seat post!0
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All but decided on a Kickr Snap for the upcoming winter training. Hoping Zwift being released on Android soon(ish) means that I can just use it on my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge for now & then I'll pick up a decent sized Android tablet. Already got a yoga mat which I'll use but I'll need to buy a big fan. Hopefully, other than the actual trainer, I'll be able to get a good set-up without spending loads of money on it0
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Good stuff. The KICKR Snap is a great choice for wheel-on trainer. See you around Watopia! :-)0
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Cheers, I might hold you to that!
been keeping an eye out on eBay for a suitable thru-axle to use with my 142x12 bike. RRP is £60 for the official Wahoo one which seems a bit excessive 0 -
I’ve been using a Vortex + Zwift for 12 months and have Quarq DZero on my best bike, for summer indoor training I’ve been using power from Quarq rather than Vortex to keep things consistent.
For the winter I’ll be putting an older bike with no power meter on turbo and I want to move to a Neo or Flux, reasons are:
- Reduced noise and no tyre slippage
- Greater resistance,Vortex max is 950W but I can hit 1100W
- More accurate power than Vortex, it’s quite a way out vs my Quarq
- Easier to calibrate than Vortex, which needs to be checked before most sessions
- Better responsiveness to gradient changes in Zwift
I borrowed a Neo and thought it was good, but wasn’t blown away. Experience was definitely clouded by teething troubles getting my bike secured and it came loose during a sprint. And I didn’t like the road feel feature, so switched it off.
I can get the Flux for £540 or the Neo for £850, both from a local shop
I’m not sure what to do. Flux seems the sensible option at a manageable price. I can afford a Neo, but it‘s a lot of money and main benefits would be increased gradient capability and downhill simulation, as both trainers offer enough resistance for my max power.
Anyone want to offer an opinion of their experience of the Flux vs Neo decision ?0 -
I've got the flux and the only reason I would choose a neo over it would be A. not needing external power for the neo and the flexibility that the neo has built in.
The flux is a brilliant little (it's actually pretty big) trainer and I really like mine. Getting the bike on and off is easier than changing a rear wheel.0 -
I've got a Flux and three weeks in and I chuffed to bits with it. Price and no need for the additional functionality of the Neo shaped my decision and I've no regrets.
You've got some good prices there and the back up of a LBS is a winner to.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
I've got a KickR Snap and have had zero tyre slippage when putting down 1,600w+...
Got mine in a CRC sale with 10% BC discount for £360.0 -
Thanks for the feedback so far, pretty much in line with where I was heading - Flux feels like the best option as the extra gradient capability and downhill simulation aren't that important to me and it's basically an extra £300 just to get those.0
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Plus one for the flux. Got mine after my vortex failed. Brilliant bit of kit in my opinion and at a very good price!0
