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Training guidance

gixernickgixernick Posts: 180
edited September 2017 in Training, fitness and health
When I start a ride I struggle for the first hour. Then seem to really kick in and be able to motor along after that.
Early in the ride I struggle, mostly with breathing, seem to have plenty in the legs but I'm proper blowing out if my ar$e. Then after around 1hr I can really pick up the pace and crank the speed up and hold it for ages and the breathing is great.
How can I improve my early ride performance/lung capacity?

Posts

  • gixernickgixernick Posts: 180
    Yeah I start steady for 5-7 miles then hit the hills where it goes downhill (No pun intended).
  • Start steady then add 30 watts every two minutes up to threshold
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Start steady then add 30 watts every two minutes up to threshold

    Most people who ride frequently or train, it's just a 5 min warmup.

    Fastpedal for maybe 2 min (maybe 90w at 110 RPM). Then up the power over the next 3 min to your EM or endurance output. After a little of that, if you want to activate some stuff throw in a hard 1 min interval or so to get all systems operational.

    This works for me. It's also what's in my training plan, so I have to do it.
  • cgfw201cgfw201 Posts: 669
    Spend half an hour on the rollers warming up before the ride

  • Most people who ride frequently or train, it's just a 5 min warmup.

    Absolute codswallop
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • VslowpaceVslowpace Posts: 189

    Most people who ride frequently or train, it's just a 5 min warmup.

    Absolute codswallop

    I'd have to agree with that assessment.

    BC has a 20-minute routine that I follow whether on road or turbo. 5 minutes would not be nearly enough for me.

    https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi ... ARM_UP.pdf
  • I didn't make it up as some chopper nobody. It's in the book.

    I read the whole book, and tend to agree with most of it and feel it fit me best for what I can commit to.

    I don't have the book with me at work, but I can take a picture of the page later. CTS training plans in the Time Crunched Cyclist book INCLUDE 5 min warmup and 5 min cooldown.

    Here is a shot of a plan. These times shown for each day are supposed to include the warmup/cooldown period.

    35438709983_2a933cf65a_z.jpg

    Example: I'm on week 5 and today this is the workout I am supposed to do.......mind I shifted the days of the week versus what's printed.

    60-90min EM w/ 2x [3x3min SEPI (3min RBI)] (6min RBS)

    The intervals will take 36 minutes themselves (3+3+3+3+3+6+3+3+3+3+3), add in 5 for warmup and 5 per cooldown (per the book) and you're at 46min. Leaving 14 to 44 min of EM time.

    The book very specifically makes the point that when reading your training plan that the day's workout INCLUDES the warm/cool down.

    Sure, taking 20 min to "warmup" and 20 to cool down may be ideal. But not everyone has 6 hours a week to train AND spend another 2 hours just warming up and cooling down.

    Also, I don't warmup for 5 min and jump right to the first power interval or Over/Unders. I'll do some EM time before and some EM time after the intervals are done. But do the intervals exactly as prescribed so that the RBS challenges what it's supposed to challenge.
  • frisbeefrisbee Posts: 691
    I have a short commute which I ride pretty hard, about a minute and I'm warmed up.

    If I ride the other way out of my house and straight up a hill, then I generally need to build up more gradually or I can't breath.
  • VslowpaceVslowpace Posts: 189
    For me, 5 minutes is not long enough for a warm-up, I would still be warming up during the first few intervals, but if it works for you then good. I never do a 20-minute cool down either, if I manage 5 I've done well.

    I think our criticism of your statement was regarding the "most people" comment.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,736
    frisbee wrote:
    I have a short commute which I ride pretty hard, about a minute and I'm warmed up.

    If I ride the other way out of my house and straight up a hill, then I generally need to build up more gradually or I can't breath.

    You might be sweating and breathing hard but that's not necessarily the same as being properly warmed up.

    I am using TrainerRoad which has relatively decent warmups (compared to e.g., Sufferfest which tend to be pretty cursory) but for the shorter workouts in particular they aren't 20 minutes.

    Example is one I did this morning, quick 45 minutes before getting an early train: https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/wor ... haeckel-45 - the warmup part is only 8 or 9 minutes.

    What this effectively means is that the first interval is a bit harder than it might be otherwise.

    However for the longer ones the warmup is much longer: https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/wor ... 96-dicks-1 - I'm supposed to do that one later this week.

    Personally I would try to warm up for as long as you can while still doing a decent workout afterwards.
  • Vslowpace wrote:
    I think our criticism of your statement was regarding the "most people" comment.

    I agree then with the criticism that "most people" might cast too big of a net.

    Sure, I agree, among training riders I may be in the bottom 1/3 in the "time crunched" group. Since I'm in the that group, the plan will cater to the time you have to spend.

    My 5-6 hrs a week is pretty minimal compared to lots of other riders on some kind of plan. If I had 10 hours a week, I probably would warmup for 20 min.

    Then again, I'm just going for not getting dropped from a Cat 5* race. Not winning and certainly not any faster category. Sure, If I don't get dropped and can try for it, that'd be nice. But I'm just trying to get to point A first. We'll worry about point B if I make it that far.

    * (The US has 5 categories for men).
  • frisbeefrisbee Posts: 691
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    I have a short commute which I ride pretty hard, about a minute and I'm warmed up.

    If I ride the other way out of my house and straight up a hill, then I generally need to build up more gradually or I can't breath.

    You might be sweating and breathing hard but that's not necessarily the same as being properly warmed up.

    I am using TrainerRoad which has relatively decent warmups (compared to e.g., Sufferfest which tend to be pretty cursory) but for the shorter workouts in particular they aren't 20 minutes.

    Example is one I did this morning, quick 45 minutes before getting an early train: https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/wor ... haeckel-45 - the warmup part is only 8 or 9 minutes.

    What this effectively means is that the first interval is a bit harder than it might be otherwise.

    However for the longer ones the warmup is much longer: https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/wor ... 96-dicks-1 - I'm supposed to do that one later this week.

    Personally I would try to warm up for as long as you can while still doing a decent workout afterwards.

    I'm not sweating or breathing hard after a minute. However the power is there if I need to do the immediate sprint to catch the lights.

    Hills I need more of a warm up, Zwift racing I definitely need a decent warmup.
  • A lot of opinions here but the reality of the science conducted on warm up protocols for cycling performance shows there really is no consensus on what protocol is most effective. The best advice is to experiment to assess the protocol that is most suitable for the individual and nature of the event's demands. Some warm ups can have a detrimental impact to performance.

    In reality to answer the OP's question we might need better information about his actual power output.
  • bobmcstuff wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    I have a short commute which I ride pretty hard, about a minute and I'm warmed up.

    I am using TrainerRoad which has relatively decent warmups (compared to e.g., Sufferfest which tend to be pretty cursory) but for the shorter workouts in particular they aren't 20 minutes.

    Hey Bob - David from The Sufferfest here. Although in our early days had warm-ups that sometimes weren't long enough, all of our workouts are now designed by elite coaches (e.g., Neal Henderson, who coaches, amongst others Rohan Dennis) and have robust warm-ups appropriate for the workout type. We even have a session, Igniter, that is based on the warm-up developed by British Cycling and adopted by team sky. It's 20min and perfect before an event or big tough workout.
    David McQuillen, Chief Suffering Officer
    http://www.thesufferfest.com
    @thesufferfest
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,983
    It takes me around an hour to warm up on a normal ride. It is what it is and I just accept it.
    I have a specific warm up that works well for me for races (when I did them)/TTs, the shorter the TT the longer this warm up.
    Twitter - @NapD
    Strava - Alex Taylor (sportstest.co.uk)
    ABCC Cycling Coach
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