Forum home Road cycling forum Amateur race

Beryls record broken at last

andcpandcp Posts: 652
edited September 2017 in Amateur race
Quote "I haven’t been riding long and still view myself as someone that mostly rides their bike for fun" - top effort! http://road.cc/content/blog/228021-alic ... ial-record
"It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill
«1

Posts

  • andcp wrote:
    Quote "I haven’t been riding long and still view myself as someone that mostly rides their bike for fun" - top effort! http://road.cc/content/blog/228021-alic ... ial-record

    When you see the bike and setup used. Carbon aero frame with rear disc, speed suit and aero helmet etc. Not to mention modern nutrition, it makes Beryl's achievement even greater when you think she did it on a bog standard steel frame with by today's standards zero aero benefit. Just pure muscle to get her around. It's a shame it still doesn't quite get the recognition it deserves
  • andcpandcp Posts: 652
    Agree - possibly Britains greatest ever cyclist.
    "It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I wonder what alice or beryl ate to keep themselves going. Alice did not stop to eat pasta which is what i have done.

    Beryl is a goddess.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,001
    Still the fastest time in the last 50 years, so credit where it's due ..
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,319
    Imposter wrote:
    Still the fastest time in the last 50 years, so credit where it's due ..

    Yes, but as always you need a bit of regulations to make these things comparable. As it stands, they aren't.

    The "athlete's hour" had this credential, if any at all... now it is hard to say whether Wiggins is better than Merckx or how he compares with Boardman... at least we know Boardman at his best was as good as Merckx on a track
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    No modern CTT record is comparable to previous records, but no one seems overly bothered when they fall (unless the rider potentially contravenes a current CTT rule - as may be the case with the recent 25 ride) and mostly the rider is rightly praised for an excellent ride.

    What would any historic rider have done on modern kit? Who knows. Celebrate excellence for what it is. Beryl's ride (and entire career) was astounding. Alice's ride was astounding. What distance would you like her to ride in order to be impressed? This was her first ever attempt at a 12, on a course and day that were clearly not the fastest (look at how close the men's field was to the male records (hint - not very)) - if her next attempt hits 290 miles will you credit it as a great ride? Does she need to hit 300? More?

    She's actually joked about doing her next attempt on historic kit (mostly as a curiosity thing and partially in response to endless critique or her modern kit) - I guarantee that if she did and still matched or broke Beryl's record, there would still be endless 'yeah, but's over things like the fact she trains with a power meter, has access to modern nutrition, roads aren't the same, etc. etc. - With that mindset, why even bother with records?

    I train (and live) with Alice. I know her power numbers - she's an incredibly strong rider by any measure and has trained incredibly hard over the past four years to break competition records (she also holds the 100 record) and podium at national events (and narrowly miss the podium at the national hill climb for several years despite being tall and a larger build than the average climber).

    Beryl's daughter was happy to see the record fall and commented 'It's lovely to see, I'm sure my mum would've been delighted for Alice'. People who were there for the original record have all praised Alice's ride. We'd all love to have seen what Beryl could have done on modern equipment, but we can't and that's not Alice's fault or problem.

    BTW - in response to the food question: a butt load of gels and sweets. We'd planned to feed her proper food, but her stomach was misbehaving. Something we'll look at for her next go!

    (apologies if this comes across aggressive, genuinely not meant to. She's my girlfriend and I use this forum, so I was obviously going to say something :lol:)
  • hopkinbhopkinb Posts: 5,692
    prowlbass wrote:
    BTW - in response to the food question: a butt load of gels and sweets.

    A butt load?! You're putting them in the wrong place. :shock:

    300 miles plus easily next time if you put 'em in her mouth... :wink:
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    hopkinb wrote:
    prowlbass wrote:
    BTW - in response to the food question: a butt load of gels and sweets.

    A butt load?! You're putting them in the wrong place. :shock:

    300 miles plus easily next time if you put 'em in her mouth... :wink:


    Limited storage options on the bike, innit.

    In seriousness, ramming 8 gels up the legs of her skinsuit at the side of the road while she tries to wrestle a water bladder from under her skinsuit and replace it doubtless put me on some kind of register somewhere.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    andcp wrote:
    Quote "I haven’t been riding long and still view myself as someone that mostly rides their bike for fun" - top effort! http://road.cc/content/blog/228021-alic ... ial-record

    When you see the bike and setup used. Carbon aero frame with rear disc, speed suit and aero helmet etc. Not to mention modern nutrition, it makes Beryl's achievement even greater when you think she did it on a bog standard steel frame with by today's standards zero aero benefit. Just pure muscle to get her around. It's a shame it still doesn't quite get the recognition it deserves

    Are you joking?

    All people ever do is bang on about it, and its so boring whenever someone gets close/beats her that this comes out every time.

    I personally think this record would have been beaten years ago but there just was not the interest from ladies on the TT scene. Now there is, Alice is a fantastic rider but it was her first attempt, I'm sure with knowledge she has now and a bit more specific training she'd smash it even further.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,319
    Onbviously you can't compare when two performances have been achieved in different eras. They should both stand as records in their own right. It's the "beating Beryl's record" I have a problem with... it's a record, but it does not beat an ancient record IMO. I think records should be shelved after 10 years or so.

    It's different in other disciplines, where technology has a less relevant impact... look how hard long jumpers find to match Bob Beamon's 1968 jump... it's nearly 50 years ago! Edwin Moses 1983 time of 47.02 would still give him a gold medal at any championship.

    Time trialling is different... Boardman with all the trimmings 56.4 km/h, Boardman without the trimmings 49.7 km/h one is astonishingly fast and would win any championship, the other would struggle to make the top 10 at a national event.
  • okgo wrote:
    andcp wrote:
    Quote "I haven’t been riding long and still view myself as someone that mostly rides their bike for fun" - top effort! http://road.cc/content/blog/228021-alic ... ial-record

    When you see the bike and setup used. Carbon aero frame with rear disc, speed suit and aero helmet etc. Not to mention modern nutrition, it makes Beryl's achievement even greater when you think she did it on a bog standard steel frame with by today's standards zero aero benefit. Just pure muscle to get her around. It's a shame it still doesn't quite get the recognition it deserves

    Are you joking?

    All people ever do is bang on about it, and its so boring whenever someone gets close/beats her that this comes out every time.

    I personally think this record would have been beaten years ago but there just was not the interest from ladies on the TT scene. Now there is, Alice is a fantastic rider but it was her first attempt, I'm sure with knowledge she has now and a bit more specific training she'd smash it even further.

    Point I was making is Beryl's acheivment is not given the recognition it deserves , probably cos she's female. I would love to see what she could have done in modern times. She was akin to Marianne Vos, she won in so many disciplines not just the one. She was world cycling champion, she won time trials she won on the track, her 12 hour record bested the men's record. Can you honestly see another female rider achieving that level of success today?

    As for the interest it has been attempted plenty of times, if you think of all the aero advancements in recent years and pacing tools like power meters and gps then it should theoretically be easier to attempt and I'm sure there are plenty of female TT riders who would happily have it on their palmares. Face the fact that it's held up this long on its own merit not just cos one day someone decided to have a go at cracking it.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,319
    I'm sure there are plenty of female TT riders who would happily have it on their palmares.

    Could be that the 12-24 hour TT female field is quite small... there aren't enough high profile races to justify a change in training for someone who is used to do 10 or 25. I also think many might not be bothered to ride for 12 hours... it's an aquired taste.
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    Ironically, it seems that from many quarters, Alice's record isn't being given the recognition it deserves, probably 'cos she's female.

    Women's cycling does not have the same depth of field as men's today and *really* didn't in Beryl's day. Thankfully there are women currently who are beating men and doing astounding things in greater number, so we can have Vos on the one hand, Hayley Simmons cracking out 19s in UK time trials on the other, etc. There weren't anywhere near as many opportunities in Beryl's day and we should be extremely glad that she found cycling and got to reach her potential - equally many more women in her day didn't.

    My simple point was that Alice, her family and friends read forums and an endless stream of (predominantly middle aged men) widdling on her achievement because it doesn't meet their personal standards is a bit crappy. A bit of support for women's cycling TODAY goes a long way and might encourage the Beryls of tomorrow to get on their bike instead of thinking 'what's the point when no one's going to credit modern success'.

    Everyone's welcome to whatever view they want, but consider how you'd want your daughter, girlfriend, mother etc. to feel if they broke a really significant record and act accordingly.
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    I'm sure there are plenty of female TT riders who would happily have it on their palmares.

    Could be that the 12-24 hour TT female field is quite small... there aren't enough high profile races to justify a change in training for someone who is used to do 10 or 25. I also think many might not be bothered to ride for 12 hours... it's an aquired taste.


    This. Look at start sheets. Women's fields at 12 and 24s are smaller and generally contain fewer 'contenders'. This is slowly changing - riders like Jasmijn Muller, Crystal Spearman and (dare I say it) Alice are taking the longer distances more seriously and hopefully a rising tide will raise all boats. If we give their achievement and effort the support and applause it merits (and that the men generally get), we could be in for an exciting few years and long-term growth in interest in this side of the sport and women's cycling generally.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,319
    prowlbass wrote:

    Everyone's welcome to whatever view they want, but consider how you'd want your daughter, girlfriend, mother etc. to feel if they broke a really significant record and act accordingly.

    I think you are taking this way too personally, for obvious reasons. I think it's perfectly legitimate to question whether a record that lasted for 50 years, did so because it was unbeatable or for lack of trying and how much modern technology brings to the table over traditional aerodynamics free bicycles.

    The only reference we have of the same athlete over the same distance with and without aero technology is Boardman... 6.7 km/h faster with aero aids, that is roughly 50 miles in 12 hours... that number can be meaningful, meaningless or somewhere in between...
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,495
    prowlbass wrote:
    Ironically, it seems that from many quarters, Alice's record isn't being given the recognition it deserves, probably 'cos she's female.

    Did a quick calc - because I can't work in just distance or just time ...
    averaging 23.8mph ... for 12 hours ... without stopping the clock when you stop ... I'd need a bluddy motor to achieve that. So well done Alice - that's a cracking distance/time record - I'd be over the moon at that and I'm a bloke! any nay sayers can try and sit on your wheel next time you try ... I guess they'll last an hour before having to peel off for an important tweet ... ;)
  • I'm sure there are plenty of female TT riders who would happily have it on their palmares.

    Could be that the 12-24 hour TT female field is quite small... there aren't enough high profile races to justify a change in training for someone who is used to do 10 or 25. I also think many might not be bothered to ride for 12 hours... it's an aquired taste.

    You say that but plenty of men and women will spend the day doing an iron man even which can take just as long. If you are happy to swim and run long distances in the same event I'm sure there are plenty who are up for riding the equivalent time on its own and not just part of an ultra long triathlon
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    I'm sure there are plenty of female TT riders who would happily have it on their palmares.

    Could be that the 12-24 hour TT female field is quite small... there aren't enough high profile races to justify a change in training for someone who is used to do 10 or 25. I also think many might not be bothered to ride for 12 hours... it's an aquired taste.

    You say that but plenty of men and women will spend the day doing an iron man even which can take just as long. If you are happy to swim and run long distances in the same event I'm sure there are plenty who are up for riding the equivalent time on its own and not just part of an ultra long triathlon

    The delights of anecdata. Here's a recent 12 and 24 results sheet:
    https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/ra ... 248#anchor
    https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/ra ... 599#anchor

    Count the female competitors. The Mersey Roads benefits from appealing to audaxers, so the 12 is actually slightly more unrepresented. I don't presume to know the actual answer, but I suspect the fact there's more money, coverage, recognition, sponsorship etc. (along with more categories to win thanks to AG etc.) in IM and triathlon generally probably has something to do with this. Presumably, the CTT could also do more to promote the dark arts of UK TTing and the long distances to a wider audience (as many triathletes may not even know they exist).

    Maybe a 12 is detrimental to triathletes' overall training and would damage their season too much to appeal? I know a lot of people take a long time to recover after a 12... then again, some have been known to bounce back and smash out a quick 10 a few days later.
  • marykamaryka Posts: 745
    You say that but plenty of men and women will spend the day doing an iron man even which can take just as long. If you are happy to swim and run long distances in the same event I'm sure there are plenty who are up for riding the equivalent time on its own and not just part of an ultra long triathlon
    Not even close to comparable.

    Ironman: huge annual event in a town completely set up for it, closed roads, usually a scenic and often foreign course with maybe 3 or 4 laps at most, it's an "event" as much as a race, great crowd support, etc.

    12-hour TT: ridden on busy roads, many loops of the same course (even worse when you go to the smaller finishing loop), not scenic, not foreign, not an event except for the people taking part and their supporters, nobody cares outside the narrow world of UK TTing.

    I've done the former a few times but I don't see myself ever doing the latter despite doing shorter TTs in the UK since 2009. They just aren't the same at all.

    Not taking anything away from the 12hr or 24hr TTers or those who do Ironman, but it's like saying that all the people who enter the ballot for the London Marathon should also be happy to run 26.2 miles around their local track with only their running clubmates there to cheer them on.
  • maryka wrote:
    You say that but plenty of men and women will spend the day doing an iron man even which can take just as long. If you are happy to swim and run long distances in the same event I'm sure there are plenty who are up for riding the equivalent time on its own and not just part of an ultra long triathlon
    Not even close to comparable.

    Ironman: huge annual event in a town completely set up for it, closed roads, usually a scenic and often foreign course with maybe 3 or 4 laps at most, it's an "event" as much as a race, great crowd support, etc.

    12-hour TT: ridden on busy roads, many loops of the same course (even worse when you go to the smaller finishing loop), not scenic, not foreign, not an event except for the people taking part and their supporters, nobody cares outside the narrow world of UK TTing.

    I've done the former a few times but I don't see myself ever doing the latter despite doing shorter TTs in the UK since 2009. They just aren't the same at all.

    Not taking anything away from the 12hr or 24hr TTers or those who do Ironman, but it's like saying that all the people who enter the ballot for the London Marathon should also be happy to run 26.2 miles around their local track with only their running clubmates there to cheer them on.

    I'm not comparing the events, I'm comparing the time taken. So many here finding flimsy excuses as to why the record stood for so long, less women do it. It takes too long, etc etc. If you look at the current levels of amateur athletes someone should have had a reasonable attempt to take it on. It isn't exclusive to pro riders, anyone can have a crack. Maybe, just maybe the bar was set so high it discourages people attempting it. I would think Ona half decent course on roads it should be attempted more often if more we're willing. If fewer women are looking to attempt it is that really Beryl's fault? Is that really an excuse. If only 20 people attempted world wide every year it's still 1000 attempts worldwide. Think about that. How often does the men's hour record get attempted? Maybe 2 or 3 times a year max. Probably less so since Bradley Wiggins put it out of reach for so many.
  • prowlbass wrote:
    I'm sure there are plenty of female TT riders who would happily have it on their palmares.

    Could be that the 12-24 hour TT female field is quite small... there aren't enough high profile races to justify a change in training for someone who is used to do 10 or 25. I also think many might not be bothered to ride for 12 hours... it's an aquired taste.

    You say that but plenty of men and women will spend the day doing an iron man even which can take just as long. If you are happy to swim and run long distances in the same event I'm sure there are plenty who are up for riding the equivalent time on its own and not just part of an ultra long triathlon

    The delights of anecdata. Here's a recent 12 and 24 results sheet:
    https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/ra ... 248#anchor
    https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/ra ... 599#anchor

    Count the female competitors. The Mersey Roads benefits from appealing to audaxers, so the 12 is actually slightly more unrepresented. I don't presume to know the actual answer, but I suspect the fact there's more money, coverage, recognition, sponsorship etc. (along with more categories to win thanks to AG etc.) in IM and triathlon generally probably has something to do with this. Presumably, the CTT could also do more to promote the dark arts of UK TTing and the long distances to a wider audience (as many triathletes may not even know they exist).

    Maybe a 12 is detrimental to triathletes' overall training and would damage their season too much to appeal? I know a lot of people take a long time to recover after a 12... then again, some have been known to bounce back and smash out a quick 10 a few days later.
    For the 12 hr ride that's 8 female riders. For one typical event in the UK. If you were to expand that countrywide that's a fair few attempts at a distance I'm sure they know has a record to break. Replicate that world wide and its attempted quite often really. Over a whole season even for the past decade it's surprising it's taken so long to get past. If anything you could argue it makes the new record a even bigger achievement. It's still a lot of riders on modern bikes with modern technology and training and nutrition. The girl herself says she only decided to attempt it a few days before. Lots of people must have trained for this distance a bit more focused. As she also says she knows a few 12 & 24 riders. Some of them must be female.
  • marykamaryka Posts: 745
    I'm not making any flimsy excuses, just pointing out that the two types of events are similar in time only, not in nature. You seem to think that anyone wanting a 12hr challenge should be motivated to do it riding bike up and down a dual carriageway and therefore it's the fault of the competitors for not taking more interest in it (til now). I'm saying that the time an event takes is probably the least motivating factor for someone to enter it. People who want to go after distance records (whether that be PBs or long-held CTT ones) will ride 12hr TTs. People who want to accomplish other things over the course of a ~12hr race will find events that suit their purposes better.
  • marykamaryka Posts: 745
    I'll add more to the argument....

    -- TTs are time and/or distance (in the case of the 12 and 24hr races) driven. People enter them to go as fast or as far as possible. The number of people who DNS because the weather's not good enough, it's a slow day, they are too tired, traffic delayed them getting there, etc. are rather large. You can enter up to 10 days beforehand and they are cheap.

    -- Ironmans are a set distance, every time. They sell out a year in advance and cost a lot of money to enter. Very few people DNS because of the time and money investment needed to get to the start line. A "slow day" at an Ironman just means everyone goes slower, but the distance completed is the same. Category placings are generally viewed as more important than course records or PBs.

    There's also a huge argument that Ironman does a lot to encourage female entrants, it's a much friendlier and less intimidating sport to get into than cycle racing, and CTT has a history of treating its female competitors (both at the top and the entire field of women) with disinterest at best and disdain at worst.

    My personal experience as the 3-time CTT women's hill climb champion is that nobody outside my immediate family or clubmates really cared much about it. I was ranked something like 150th in the official results (no separate women's race, all competitors ranked together, so I was 1st woman behind 149 men), and it's such a niche sport that people just think you're a nutter for doing it.

    BUT what I did was wear my champs jersey with pride and use what publicity I got over those years to encourage more women to take hill climb races seriously, such that after I was defending champ the 3rd time there was finally a full field of women (and reserves) trying to win it and I was beaten handily by half a dozen younger and more hungry competitors. Job done, and if Alice breaking this record encourages more women to enter 12hr races and be competitive and take it seriously, that's a win for everyone imo.

    Hopefully the floodgates for the longer distances will open up as they have at the shorter distances in TTing. Maybe those will come from the Ironman ranks, but it will come from that small number of women who race to win because they love to compete vs those who race to finish because they love to complete.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,319
    Maryka is right.

    The world of UK CTT is small and self referential. Nobody knew of Michael Hutchinson before he attempted the hour record and found notoriety writing books and magazine articles. Nobdy knew of Graheme Obree before he attempted the Hour record. It's a small old fashioned world that doesn't do tweets, instagrams and has virtually zero endorsements. At a guess the superstars of UK CTT can maybe get to earn the equivalent of a part time burger flipper at McDonalds.

    There is hardly any incentive for an endurance athlete to get involved. The only appeal is that it is cheap... anyone can enter an event and almost anyone can enter a "National Championship"... which is not the case in any other sport
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    maryka wrote:
    My personal experience as the 3-time CTT women's hill climb champion is that nobody outside my immediate family or clubmates really cared much about it. I was ranked something like 150th in the official results (no separate women's race, all competitors ranked together, so I was 1st woman behind 149 men), and it's such a niche sport that people just think you're a nutter for doing it.

    BUT what I did was wear my champs jersey with pride and use what publicity I got over those years to encourage more women to take hill climb races seriously, such that after I was defending champ the 3rd time there was finally a full field of women (and reserves) trying to win it and I was beaten handily by half a dozen younger and more hungry competitors. Job done, and if Alice breaking this record encourages more women to enter 12hr races and be competitive and take it seriously, that's a win for everyone imo.

    Hopefully the floodgates for the longer distances will open up as they have at the shorter distances in TTing. Maybe those will come from the Ironman ranks, but it will come from that small number of women who race to win because they love to compete vs those who race to finish because they love to complete.

    A 'like' button would be great around about now...
  • maryka wrote:
    I'll add more to the argument....

    .

    Didn't realise this was an argument!

    I raised 2 points originally.

    1. That Beryl's achievement 50 years ago and her personally do not get the recognition they deserve. I got a reply like Okgo's quote "I personally think this record would have been beaten years ago but there just was not the interest from ladies on the TT scene. Now there is, Alice is a fantastic rider but it was her first attempt, I'm sure with knowledge she has now and a bit more specific training she'd smash it even further."

    I argue that in 50 years worldwide there has been ample opportunity for this record to have been beaten. In a world populated by nearly 7 and a half billion half of which are female +/- a few , no one could be arsed to have a concerted effort at breaking this record? Was the record of Alice a great achievement, yes of course it is. I agree wholeheartedly. I never suggested otherwise, in the past half century have many attempts taken place? Statistically with the amount of women riding in modern times with better more aero bikes and better training etc could it be feasible to assume someone would have broken it long ago had the original record not been quite so outstanding in the first place?

    2. That plenty of people are into doing endurance distances . RAAM , LEJOG, coast to coast rides etc, there must be a healthy appetite at attempting to conquer a record that has stood the test of time. And that theoretically plenty must have attempted it. I gave a conservative figure of 1000 proper attempts in a 50 year period worldwide. Not just some small corner of Cambridgeshire. Plenty of riders coming to ends of careers looking for that final goal or just random attempts on a short notice whim a la Alice herself.

    I am actually praising both record holders but people are so blinckered they are arguing against the selves. Making excuses for why it took so long as degrading Beryl's record in a way by saying the modern tech matters nothing. Fact is it's taken 50 long years to beat. It matters not one bit the frequency of attempts in that time. It in my eyes should be along with Beryl' be recognised more than it has.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,319
    Plenty of riders coming to ends of careers looking for that final goal or just random attempts on a short notice whim a la Alice herself.

    You probably don't realise how insignificant the world of TTs really is. In the UK there is a small scene promoted by CTT... there isn't one elsewhere... nobody cares about time trials.
    In this context, you have to go down several orders of magnitude to find anyone within the TT scene who actually cares for long distance time trialling... it's so niche nobody really knows it even exists.
    Paradoxically, the 12 hours is even less than the 24 hours, which will attract inevitably a few AUK nutters
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    We are really the only country who do time trials with any kind of scene. So its not world wide by any stretch. Also, most places that might do TTs would think riding on the motorway is pretty dumb, but for whatever reasons we still do it here. Nobody would be beating any of the old UK records without traffic assistance, and much has been made of the dodgy riding styles of riders of old (and new) to get max benefit.

    It was her first ride over 6 hours and she smashed it...Of course someone could have beaten it before if they had wanted to do it - I'm sure I could do a decent 12 hour, but I have literally no interest, it sounds disgusting, much the same as Alice probably had not really thought about it. Aero equipment I am sure pays its part, but with women's cycling its still so tiny, and this event so niche (how many per year are there vs 25 mile events?) that any record like this is going to last a long time. It was a huge feat by Burton, no disputing that. But you simple cannot be suggesting that human physiology has gone backwards since then and that there is nobody capable today of what she did - what HAS changed is there are more people doing it and specialising in certain aspects, so it would be tough these days to win in many different fields. Almost impossible for the men, but still possible in women as its still quite small, as proved by Vos. Wiggins maybe a good example (obvious abuse of TUE aside) who has done a huge amount in the mens side of things up against top competitors in each discipline.

    What other distance records did Burton hold? Might tell more of a story than the 12.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • prowlbassprowlbass Posts: 159
    edited August 2017
    Where's all this 'worldwide' come from? You're aware this is a UK record, no?

    Women have attempted it, yes, but fewer than the men that have attempted the male record. The fact the record was difficult to beat means interest waned. We're hoping interest will increase now it has been broken. You seem to have a serious misunderstanding of just how many women have legitimately gone after the record in the past 50 years (as in have both targeted it AND been a skilled enough rider to have the ability to obtain it). The male record, due to incremental improvements, has driven interest and the 12 is still deemed 'niche', so the women's record is long overdue an interest injection to find new talented women with a genuine desire and ability to better the distance, rather than enter a 12 as a personal challenge.

    Do you know how few women have attempted (let alone finished) RAAM? TCR? TABR? Numbers are thankfully increasing because riders like Emily Chapell, Lael Wilcox, Juju etc. are getting the credit they deserve and being celebrated for their achievements.

    The 12 start sheet I shared was one of the most popular 12s. 8 entrants. One on a trike, at least two over the age of 50. Most people ride a single 12 per season, at most 2. There are a limited number of 12s per year (fewer now that the ECCA is winding down thanks to lack of organisers/support), so 1,000 proper attempts over 50 years? Really?

    Your initial post was:

    "When you see the bike and setup used. Carbon aero frame with rear disc, speed suit and aero helmet etc. Not to mention modern nutrition, it makes Beryl's achievement even greater when you think she did it on a bog standard steel frame with by today's standards zero aero benefit. Just pure muscle to get her around. It's a shame it still doesn't quite get the recognition it deserves"

    Please point out the part where you 'praise both record holders' - I clearly missed the clever subtext you were going for because of the overt subtext of 'this record is not as good, because of the equipment'.
  • marykamaryka Posts: 745
    Yes of course it was a great record (more for the fact that it eclipsed the men's record of the day than anything else) and yes Beryl was probably the greatest female rider we've known if not one of the greatest riders ever, and it will take a hugely talented person to achieve what she achieved in her career. That doesn't diminish Alice's achievement at all.

    But you're still missing the point of how niche this crazy 12hr TTing lark is. There just aren't millions or even thousands or even dozens with this record in their minds. I would put it at about 2 a year, maybe. And that's an increase on 10 years ago when there was maybe one every other year? Or the same person every year.

    It simply just isn't or hasn't been on the radar of 99.9% of endurance riders out there. The appetite you mention isn't there. Not least because riding around in circles on A-roads for 12hrs holds none of the appeal of RAAM, Ironman, coast to coast rides, etc. So it takes a special combination of rider, talent, circumstances, course, weather, and desire to get this record. Though hopefully that will change now, as I said.

    I am curious now to look up the conditions on the day that Beryl broke the record 50 years ago, because she obviously didn't ride as far beforehand nor break it again afterwards and she probably did a dozen 12hr TTs or more? I suspect she had a really fast day by TT standards which just further put the record out of reach for more ordinary people on ordinary days for so long.
Sign In or Register to comment.