Depressing reading

jgsi

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -pass-cars
After reading the pages of comments of getting absolutely no where.. major decision time

I ride a bike just to P I S S people off.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Generally, it is shocking how many drivers post on such articles and try and divert the issue from their responsibility to drive a typically 1000Kg+ vehicle safely around other road users, including cyclists.

An awful lot of non-business driving trips are less than 5 miles, which most people could do within 30 minutes of riding (unless it's hilly), with a standard bike or e-bike. Doing this would make them fitter, which would reduce the crippling NHS expenditure and reduce motor vehicle congestion for those that really need their motor transport.

We need a government to take the matter by the scruff of the neck, allowing police to issue temporary and permanent bans for reckless driving around other road users like cyclists and taxing non-business car journeys that are less than five miles in length.

cooldad

You sound almost like them.

I agree, to a degree. 99% of my commuting, and our shopping (she works from home) is done by bike. But it's a bugger carrying big/lots of stuff, and England has pretty shitty weather.
Most people will just tell you to fark off.

agentorange88

cooldad wrote:

You sound almost like them.

I agree, to a degree. 99% of my commuting, and our shopping (she works from home) is done by bike. But it's a bugger carrying big/lots of stuff, and England has pretty sh!tty weather.
Most people will just tell you to fark off.

I agree, not every one wants to ride a bike with panniers, or take 30 minutes to ride 5 miles. Then you have to lug a chain around and find somewhere to securely lock it and hope the local xxxxxx haven't removed bits, slashed the tyres.

bungle73

The problem as I see it is that a lot of motorists are a) tired old whingers, b) bullies, and c) utterly selfish.

I see it all time in comment sections, people taking an opportunity to have a dig at cyclists, even when the story in question has nothing to do with them. And that other classic, whinging about public money being spent on provision of cycling facilities, even though motorists have been getting the lion's share of the transport budget spent on just them for decades!

agentorange88 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

You sound almost like them.

I agree, to a degree. 99% of my commuting, and our shopping (she works from home) is done by bike. But it's a bugger carrying big/lots of stuff, and England has pretty sh!tty weather.
Most people will just tell you to fark off.

I agree, not every one wants to ride a bike with panniers, or take 30 minutes to ride 5 miles. Then you have to lug a chain around and find somewhere to securely lock it and hope the local xxxxxx haven't removed bits, slashed the tyres.

Why do you need a chain? All you need is a good quality d lock. And the rest sounds like paranoia tbh.

agentorange88

i use the word "chain" to refer to a device for secureing the bike to an object, D locks are just as heavy and rarely is there a suitable item that is small enough for a Dlock to fit round.
With quick release wheels these need to be secured as well which a D lock wont achieve alone.

Paranoia? really? 5 people got acid thrown at them in London so thier mopeds could be stolen. Im pretty sure that they didnt go out expecting that to happen to them but im sure they probably considered their mopeds might be stolen if left alone.
Granted busy high streets might be less likely to see damage but a lot of places are in quieter out of the way places.

bungle73

agentorange88 wrote:

i use the word "chain" to refer to a device for secureing the bike to an object, D locks are just as heavy and rarely is there a suitable item that is small enough for a Dlock to fit round.

Not as heavy as the sort of chain that would actually be worth using. And unless your bike is worth thousands you don't need to go overboard on one anyway.

I've rarely had an issue finding somewhere to lock up, and these days there are lots of cycle racks around.

With quick release wheels these need to be secured as well which a D lock wont achieve alone.

Not if you lock it up properly, by removing the front wheel and placing inside the lock with the bike, or replace the quick release skewer entirely with a more secure version, which is what I've done.

Paranoia? really? 5 people got acid thrown at them in London so thier mopeds could be stolen. Im pretty sure that they didnt go out expecting that to happen to them but im sure they probably considered their mopeds might be stolen if left alone.
Granted busy high streets might be less likely to see damage but a lot of places are in quieter out of the way places.

Five people out of how many in London?

mfin

I think the majority of cyclists ride badly on the roads, that is a massive part of the problem. (That is my observation, but I don't live in the city and don't observe cyclists commuting so can't comment on that).

Once you look at cyclists riding in groups the problem gets worse again.

I fully expect comments sections to be like that because although a lot of it is both articulated badly and reasoned badly, cyclists behaviour on the roads is bound to annoy drivers.

The best and biggest possible contribution to a solution is for cyclists to ride better and more considerately.

kingrollo

Bad cyclists annoy people
bad drivers kill people.

fat daddy

Bungle73 wrote:

Five people out of how many in London?

8788000

so that's 0.00005% give or take a '0' ... my watch doesn't have enough numbers to work out the E-5 at the end of the figure

bristolpete

I had a debate last week and I concluded if we chained the term cycling for 'exercise' I wonder if the culture would shift ?

mfin

kingrollo wrote:

Bad cyclists annoy people
bad drivers kill people.

Sounds good, but it's not true is it.

Bad cyclists annoy people.
Bad drivers annoy people.
Bad and good drivers kill people.

...that would be more accurate.

Yes it is difficult to kill people on a bike, but also what percentage of drivers will kill someone today? Naff all.

Anyway, the above is all irrelevant. The comments section on that article is a reflection of people getting annoyed with how so many cyclists ride, and a huge amount of cyclists do ride like complete ****s so the comments are expected even if most of them aren't being expressed very well.

fat daddy

bristolpete wrote:

I had a debate last week and I concluded if we chained the term cycling for 'exercise' I wonder if the culture would shift ?

only if you changed the term "car" to "child killing, fat wagon, muffin top, big lazy arse hauler"

kingstongraham

bristolpete wrote:

I had a debate last week and I concluded if we chained the term cycling for 'exercise' I wonder if the culture would shift ?

I don't just cycle to exercise. It's twice as fast as public transport to get me to work.

bristolpete

KingstonGraham wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

I had a debate last week and I concluded if we chained the term cycling for 'exercise' I wonder if the culture would shift ?

I don't just cycle to exercise. It's twice as fast as public transport to get me to work.

I concur. However, it is a good umbrella word for those that have no idea what 'cycling' is about and if you spin it as exercise etc etc.

I call myself a bike rider really.

mellex

Personally I think this comment highlights a lot of the issues held to be true by motorists where a cyclist(s) are involved:

DogsAndVultures 25 Jul 2017 9:13
The roads are just too busy for bikes. They should be banned on the roads and cycling restricted to dedicated cycling routes.

Two key points immediately jump out at me.

1. Many of the roads in the Uk are busy. Too busy? What is 'too busy'? Traffic jams, slow moving, fast moving, multiple lanes, narrow lanes? Does a cyclist(s) add to these problems? Of course we do. Motorists have to navigate around us at some point and that is to them, an inconvenience. Some cyclists don't make this easy for the motorist and that's what gets remembered.

2. Banning cyclists & the need for dedicated cycle routes. This is an absolute non-starter. Large sections of the motoring community are up-in-arms everytime a cycling highway is proposed. Which government is going to spend that sort of money on cyclists when the condition of the overall road network deteriorates year-on-year?

I do like to think that the majority of motorists say these things in the belief that it's for our safety. Which in part may be true. But safety from who? That's the part where the discussion always gets heated.

Now I'm happy to pay 'Road Tax', have insurance and even pass a test to ride my bike on the public highway. But I'll do this on one condition. That the motoring community can prove beyond doubt that the requirement for all motorists to do the very same things has made the act of driving a motorised vehicle 'safe'.

Jez mon

mfin wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

Bad cyclists annoy people
bad drivers kill people.

Sounds good, but it's not true is it.

Bad cyclists annoy people.
Bad drivers annoy people.
Bad and good drivers kill people.

...that would be more accurate.

Yes it is difficult to kill people on a bike, but also what percentage of drivers will kill someone today? Naff all.

Anyway, the above is all irrelevant. The comments section on that article is a reflection of people getting annoyed with how so many cyclists ride, and a huge amount of cyclists do ride like complete ****s so the comments are expected even if most of them aren't being expressed very well.

A huge amount ride like ****s. Are you sure?

In my non-scientific bias experience, I see a lot more naff driving than cycling.

I mean, a large group of cyclists hold you up for a bit on a country road. Learn a little patience maybe?

ryan_w-2

Cun*ts in cars
Cun*ts on bikes

They're everywhere.

Bad drivers give drivers a bad name
Bad cyclists give cyclists a bad name

You will never eradicate all from either side.

Just do your best when in a car or on a bike, not to be a dickhead.

mfin

Ryan_W wrote:

Cun*ts in cars
Cun*ts on bikes

They're everywhere.

Bad drivers give drivers a bad name
Bad cyclists give cyclists a bad name

You will never eradicate all from either side.

Just do your best when in a car or on a bike, not to be a dickhead.

This is pretty much it.

mfin

Jez mon wrote:

A huge amount ride like ****s. Are you sure?

In my non-scientific bias experience, I see a lot more naff driving than cycling.

I mean, a large group of cyclists hold you up for a bit on a country road. Learn a little patience maybe?

Absolutely sure. Stacks of them, and no, this isn't in the city. (I'm not singling out groups at all either).

It is no wonder some drivers get impatient with pretty much all cyclists nowadays, they are unfortunately conditioned to be annoyed at the sight of a cyclist by the sheer number of dickhead cyclists who ride inconsiderately when out on the roads.

As a cyclist it staggers me how so many people ride inconsiderately. Cyclists are not the fastest thing on the road, so should be aware of the inconvenience they cause others and ride in such a way to minimise this (which so rarely means inconveniencing yourself as a cyclist, it just means using your brain).

cooldad

Sheer number of dickhead cyclists? Because they don't dive off the road at the sight of Mr Toad and doff their caps?

Did you stray here from the daily Mail.

mfin

cooldad wrote:

Sheer number of dickhead cyclists? Because they don't dive off the road at the sight of Mr Toad and doff their caps?

Did you stray here from the daily Mail.

No cooldad, not "because they don't dive off the road at the sight of Mr Toad and doff their caps", because they consistently ride in an inconsiderate manner completely needlessly. Using a road by any means while minimising inconvenience to other road users is not difficult, you just use your brain.

Dont drive a car like an inconsiderate ****, don't ride a bike like an inconsiderate ****, don't ride a horse like an inconsiderate ****, don't drive a.... it's not that difficult, but a lot of cyclists make it look like it's the last thing on their mind.

(I'd be the last person to read the Daily Mail).

bungle73

mfin wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Cyclists are not the fastest thing on the road, so should be aware of the inconvenience they cause others and ride in such a way to minimise this (which so rarely means inconveniencing yourself as a cyclist, it just means using your brain).

Like?

cooldad

mfin wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Sheer number of dickhead cyclists? Because they don't dive off the road at the sight of Mr Toad and doff their caps?

Did you stray here from the daily Mail.

No cooldad, not "because they don't dive off the road at the sight of Mr Toad and doff their caps", because they consistently ride in an inconsiderate manner completely needlessly. Using a road by any means while minimising inconvenience to other road users is not difficult, you just use your brain.

Dont drive a car like an inconsiderate ****, don't ride a bike like an inconsiderate ****, don't ride a horse like an inconsiderate ****, don't drive a.... it's not that difficult, but a lot of cyclists make it look like it's the last thing on their mind.

(I'd be the last person to read the Daily Mail).

Some examples please, apart from riding (bike or horse) along the road in a law abiding way, minding my own business.

(And I hate horses, nasty smelly things making giant poops with scary teeth, but they still have a right to ride down the road.)

GedFoss

mellex wrote:

Now I'm happy to pay 'Road Tax', have insurance etc. etc...

I think the whole 'road tax' thing is a major contributing factor to the silly disputes on these kinds of articles. Wherever it crops up, it needs to be challenged. Yes, I know it feels like it's been done to death, but the majority of motorists don't actually know what it is they're paying, and it's the fact that they have to pay so much that they resent. They still pay less than it costs to use public transport, but that's a whole other discussion to be had.

Cyclists already pay the appropriate amount of VED on their bicycles - zero, since they emit no CO2 NO2 etc.

cooldad

I do fart sometimes whilst riding, so probably emit CO.

twotoebenny

Yeah but so do the drivers and it's the vehicle that the VED is paid on...

pblakeney

GedFoss wrote:

mellex wrote:

Now I'm happy to pay 'Road Tax', have insurance etc. etc...

I think the whole 'road tax' thing is a major contributing factor to the silly disputes on these kinds of articles. Wherever it crops up, it needs to be challenged. Yes, I know it feels like it's been done to death, but the majority of motorists don't actually know what it is they're paying, and it's the fact that they have to pay so much that they resent. They still pay less than it costs to use public transport, but that's a whole other discussion to be had.

Cyclists already pay the appropriate amount of VED on their bicycles - zero, since they emit no CO2 NO2 etc.

Answers to common comments.

"Road Tax"? "Road tax" is based on emissions. Bikes don't have emissions so pay a zero rate. Like some cars.
Insurance? Yes, I have it.
A license? I am covered for a motor bike, so pretty sure I am covered for a bicycle.
Number plate? Really? Would that make things better, or safer? No problem if need be.
Bad cycling? Idiots on all forms of traffic.
Adding to congestion? So, I get off my bike and into my car. how will that help?

chris_bass

definitely not my views but this is what the drooling masses might argue - comments below:

PBlakeney wrote:

"Road Tax"? "Road tax" is based on emissions. Bikes don't have emissions so pay a zero rate. Like some cars.
But you pay nothing for the upkeep of the road and your bicycles make soooo many potholes
Insurance? Yes, I have it.
but until you pay as much as car insurance costs it doesn't count
A license? I am covered for a motor bike, so pretty sure I am covered for a bicycle.
sure, you might but the vast majority of cyclists don't even drive so have no idea what it is like to be on the road
Number plate? Really? Would that make things better, or safer? No problem if need be.
IT definitely would help because you'd be traceable and accountable for your actions. Plus no one with a number plate breaks any laws of the road.
Bad cycling? Idiots on all forms of traffic.
But ALL cyclists are bad, I have seen them all so know that all cyclists are terrible
Adding to congestion? So, I get off my bike and into my car. how will that help?
But your car goes faster so you wouldn't hold anyone up, that's how it works

pblakeney

I refuse to have a conversation with idiots.
My days are fairly quiet.

mrfpb

The most pertinent point of the article:

In a regular blog by West Midlands officers they mention the common complaint about the “close pass” operation: what about cyclist lawbreaking?
“Cyclists don’t cause us, as an organisation, problems,” they respond. “That’s because they aren’t causing our communities problems, they aren’t killing nearly 100 people on our region’s roads as mechanically propelled vehicles currently do.