Beta blocker prescribed!

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  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Cotterend wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Cotterend wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Cotterend wrote:

    I need a different way to control the migraine / anxiety. Beta blockers are not the answer.


    I agree and I also think the answer for either doesn't lie in a pill

    I'm with you on this, more zen needed. Perhaps a little less of the bull-at-a-gate approach to life, perhaps I don't need to knock myself out cycling up every mountain.... although not doing so does sound a little boring :(

    When I realised I was not getting any faster, I began to wonder how far I could go... and that unlocked a whole new world of challenges... might not solve your migrane issues, but it might do wonder for your anxiety...
    Have a read and see what you think

    https://whosatthewheel.com/2017/06/27/s ... ional-400/

    Interesting, thank you.

    I used to be able to spend whole days cycling in the Alps (I lived in the foothills) and found huge relief in getting above 2000m, under my own steam. Living on my own, it didn't matter that I was wrecked for days afterwards. Now I run a B+B with my husband in the foothills of the Pyrenees, and am lucky enough to have two to three hours most days if I need them, but frustratingly never enough to really get up high and savour it all. And no longer really free to push myself to the same levels of exhaustion, I need to be live-able with afterwards!

    And now every day, being on the Camino, we see off our guests, on foot and on bike, all embarking on a day-after-day mission with nothing more to do other than get to the next stop... I'm not jealous of them, but wonder how much of my anxiety comes from not getting up high, or would be relieved if I did.

    The need to get high into the mountains and feel at one with them came after the suicide of my ex, the best times we had together being in the mountains. But now, it's about the mountains and the space, not the grief. I have to push my limits, and every so often, go beyond that certain point, where it becomes more an adventure than a cycle ride. I feel alive when I'm really pitted against the mountain, or the heat, or the exhaustion, I come back feeling buzzed up, buoyant.

    Are you all the same, cyclists, or is just me??
    A lot of us may feel the same way but probably are not having palpitations/ anxiety type symptoms which have resulted in a medic thinking we need beta blockers.
    I will take a bit of a risk and say you might need a therapist as a I suspect you might not be as over your ex as you make out.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    most people only see their gp about it and I'm sorry but GPs don't really treat migraine sufferers that well. That's my experience and TBH the experience of other sufferers I've met at those events.

    So your one experience plus a few anecdotes means you feel able to generalise about all GPs......... :roll: :roll:
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Actually no. My gp also explained that a specialist is necessary for cases where the usual, basic options don't work. Which is basically what I'm saying. That was also what the consultant said. He also said that ppl often only get to see him after too long without access to the best advice/treatment. The leading researcher at one of those events I went to also said similar.

    Of course if your experience is different to the opinions of GPs, consultants and leading researchers in headaches/pain/migraines and your gp treated you straight away I say good for you. That doesn't mean the same is for everyone. If you're not getting treatment that helps from your gp then get referred. What is wrong with that advice?

    If your migraine is a serious condition affecting your life then don't leave it to your gp to give you the few options that they're permitted to give. Get referred to.a pain clinic. They'll know more about the latest research, medication and doses. Plus they can prescribe drugs GPs can't initially offer without consultant input.
  • joncomelately
    joncomelately Posts: 660
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Actually no. My gp also explained that a specialist is necessary for cases where the usual, basic options don't work. Which is basically what I'm saying.

    You seem to be saying different things.
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    There are many treatments a gp can prescribe, including several drugs that are effective with a lot of people.

    chimes with the quote at the top, but when you said
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    and I'm sorry but GPs don't really treat migraine sufferers that well

    that sounds like a very different prospect. The initial quote suggests GPs do a decent job with the basics, but there are a number of people who are more complex and need specialist input - fair enough, that's pretty much the idea of GPs; these people may not be getting the optimum service, but that is what we as a society have accepted as collateral damage of a primary/secondary/tertiary care system such as the NHS. The second quote is saying a whole specialty (i.e. GPs) are doing a bad job at treating all migraines, which sounds a bit over the top. Hence Svetty's reaction.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Let me clarify that last quote. GPs tend to prescribe pain killers for migraines first, later they treat migraines with migraine specific drugs. In the experience of all migraine sufferers I've met this initial response is rubbish because they're unlikely to work for classic migraines. By rubbish I mean the more effective treatments they could offer isn't suggested until very ineffective treatments have been tried.

    If you've got a classic migraine it's very unlikely paracetamol and ibuprofen will help. Rizatriptan might help but it can take a long time to this more effective drug. Whether that delay it's through inadequate knowledge of treatments or not I don't know. I just take the view that this delay isn't treating migraine sufferers well.

    Perhaps I've got a problem with GPs colouring this view. Hardly surprising because when I developed migraine (classic migraine with really bad symptoms) I had several years of migraleve prescriptions. These had no effect and my gp wouldn't listen. Later on my symptoms got a lot worse in a very scary way. My gp told me that I was making the new symptoms up because her partner had.migraines and he's never had those symptoms. Seriously, if you have any of the long list of migraine symptoms that her husband had never experienced then you were making them up.

    Later on I got preventative medication then the triptans. GPs were starting to listen and give more effective treatment. However even then it took several visits and a year or two before they listened to my opinion that the drugs weren't getting into my system and gave me a nasal spray based drug to speed up drug delivery.

    It took about 25 years to get referred to a pain clinic. Although part of the time a pain clinic wasn't set up in the a area I suspect. Once I got to a consultant I got the only drugs that has any evidence it gets into the blood quickly. It's helped.

    Sorry if your don't think my views are coherent or worth giving. However I still hold with my opinion that GPs are only good for getting a referral to a pain / migraine clinic for your condition. The sooner they do that then the sooner a migraine sufferer can get good treatment. BTW you should look into the research into cost of the economy due to lost productivity of migraine sufferers. The best papers/figures I've seen are for America so the figure it's very high. It's a condition that's worth looking into more.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    When we lived in RIchmond we had pretty good GPs, since we moved to Birmingham I have to say the ones we have are useless.

    When a GP advises you to cut olive oil to lower cholesterol, against pretty much all the medical and also anedoctal evidence out there, you know you are talking to an incompetent. Are we supposed to take advice from him?
    left the forum March 2023
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    The NICE guidelines apply across the board - to Neurologists as much as to GPs. They are guidelines not absolute rules but most clinicians will tend to base their treatment recommendations according to them.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    When we lived in RIchmond we had pretty good GPs, since we moved to Birmingham I have to say the ones we have are useless.

    When a GP advises you to cut olive oil to lower cholesterol, against pretty much all the medical and also anedoctal evidence out there, you know you are talking to an incompetent. Are we supposed to take advice from him?

    Depends how much oil you are having ;)
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    Svetty wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    When we lived in RIchmond we had pretty good GPs, since we moved to Birmingham I have to say the ones we have are useless.

    When a GP advises you to cut olive oil to lower cholesterol, against pretty much all the medical and also anedoctal evidence out there, you know you are talking to an incompetent. Are we supposed to take advice from him?

    Depends how much oil you are having ;)

    It actually doesn't... and if he looked carefully the results, he should have noticed that while the total was marginally above the threshold (5.3 vs 5.0), this was due to high HDL (high but within range) and average LDL (if not on the low side of normal). For some reason, two average values when added up give an above range value... in this case being pushed up by the "good cholesterol".

    He has proved himself pretty ignorant in other instances which I am not going to disclose here, but basically he can only be used to get a referral, I would rather trust a bloke on the internet to be perfectly honest... it is that bad!
    left the forum March 2023
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I started having migraines one day out of the blue, at the age of 40 ish. Classic, one sided affairs preceded by the text book visual disturbance. Once that happened, no painkiller on earth had any effect, and lying in a darkened room was all I could do. Over the course of several years I worked out they were triggered by combinations of stress, dehydration, certain alcoholic drinks, and possibly MSG.

    Armed with that knowledge, I've managed to just about eliminate them. Actually, thinking about it, I've not had one since I've been on my current cocktail of antidepressants, so there may be something in that...

    Homeopathy is patently nonsense. The placebo effect is real enough though.

    My wife has had 2 GPs from the same practice arguing about whether her blood lipid results were normal or requiring statins. Thankfully the one advocating no pills prevailed. I've also had the same discussions about my slightly elevated triglycerides; that fortunately is much improved by eating 5:2 pretty much all the time
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    If doctors can actually recall NICE guidelines on anything but the most common.conditions I'd be surprised. All my GPs just call up patient.co.uk. They also get the receptionist to ask what you're going there about. Gives them a heads up to get the right page up! BTW they're ok with some things I'll admit but you have to gild the lily a bit. Otherwise you get fobbed off. Things like family history that links in with symptoms gets ignored unless you make out the symptoms are worse. Apparently a lot of ppl do that.

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