Ultegra 8000, what's new?

ugo.santalucia
ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
edited February 2018 in Road buying advice
If the stars align correctly over the next few months, in September I might treat myself to the new 8000 groupset, hence I need work out possible cockups and incompatibilities

As I understand, the rear mech is Shadow, which is great as I already have a shadow rear mech... the brakes have expanded clearance, which is great again, as I use bigger tyres and my frame really needs the 49 mm drop... it comes also in 36/46 flavour, which I do like a lot and it comes with 32 T cassette, which again I like a lot.

Is there anything I should be aware of?
left the forum March 2023
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Comments

  • cgfw201
    cgfw201 Posts: 680
    It certainly looks the part, and Shimano don't tend to get these things wrong, particularly at the Ultegra/DA level, as far as I know.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    It's also very expensive, but if I manage to get a bit of cash from a publisher, I might just "invest" it... I was just wondering whether there were some components that are only compatible with... kind of things... like different cassette spacings or silly thin chain, but everything seems pretty standard to me
    left the forum March 2023
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,224
    The FD is a new design for lighter shifting action, also no longer has the long actuating arm that could foul larger tyre sizes on some bikes, as reported on BR forums.
  • mrtn
    mrtn Posts: 24
    On Mantel page, more interesting cassette options. IIRC, these were not available before.

    - 14-28: 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-25-28
    - 11-30: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30
  • bianchi_dave
    bianchi_dave Posts: 933
    I was between R8000 and R9100. I've just bought R9100 shifters and mechs for starters, as the shifters in particular, were cheaper than the R8000 version. PBK have them for around £315 but there was £30 off that, taking them down to £285. If you were to acquire parts separately as opposed to whole group, and can wait for deals, you may get Dura Ace for not much more ££. It could be a while before there are good savings on R8000.

    Re incompatibilities, the only thing to be aware of is that (according to Shimano) previous generation front mechs (5800/6800/9000) will not work with R9100 or R8000 cranksets as the chain rings are placed further inboard and the old mechs lack the necessary adjustment.
    Scott Foil RC
    Scott Addict RC
    Trek Emonda
  • londoncommuter
    londoncommuter Posts: 1,550
    Can't think why there would be an issue but guessing there are no problems with a short cage R8000 rear mech and 9001 shifters?
  • chaymck
    chaymck Posts: 157
    Are the calipers 'long' drop or in between?
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,224
    chaymck wrote:
    Are the calipers 'long' drop or in between?

    51mm reach, 28c max tyre, rim width 20.8 - 28mm.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Obviously DUra Ace at the same price is tempting, but it's a race groupset, so I fear they don't value things like clearance, surely they don't make a 36/46 chainset... could be tempted to buy in parts and have the DA shifters though... although I suspect these days the difference between the two is mostly cosmetic... bit like Chrous/Record
    left the forum March 2023
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,065
    mrtn wrote:
    On Mantel page, more interesting cassette options. IIRC, these were not available before.

    - 14-28: 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-25-28
    - 11-30: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30

    Maybe it's just me, but why the heck have they gone with 14-28 range? It's a cassette for those not looking for extreme top speed, potentially a decent climbing cassette.

    ... Except they've forgotten to include a 32 sprocket and spread things out a bit more in the ~19-21T range! :shock:
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    edited July 2017
    Junior gearing for fat dentists?

    & Touring?

    Its heavier than the old one :shock:

    https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-q ... -6800-9100
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Moonbiker wrote:
    Junior gearing for fat dentists?

    & Touring?

    If you don't live in a particularly hilly area, don't race and don't chase Strava KOM, it's the perfect cassette. I think 90% of the people should find it perfect, if they don't they are probably delusional :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    I agree

    & super compact gearing cranks etc is on trend now apparently also.


    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... sts-48974/

    Why don't the just ride a triple though? :o

    *but a triple doesn't cost a fortune & looks less bling... :wink:
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Moonbiker wrote:
    I agree

    & super compact gearing cranks etc is on trend now apparently also.


    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... sts-48974/

    Why don't the just ride a triple though? :o

    *but a triple doesn't cost a fortune & looks less bling... :wink:

    I don't mind the 48/32 idea, but the problem is the big 16 T step. I don't really need a 32 or a 34, but I don't need >50 ring either... I find 36/46 pretty much perfect.

    I suppose a triple with 30/38/48 would be ideal for touring, but as I don't tour I don't need the 30...
    left the forum March 2023
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    NitrousOxide wrote:
    mrtn wrote:
    On Mantel page, more interesting cassette options. IIRC, these were not available before.

    - 14-28: 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-25-28
    - 11-30: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30

    Maybe it's just me, but why the heck have they gone with 14-28 range? It's a cassette for those not looking for extreme top speed, potentially a decent climbing cassette.

    ... Except they've forgotten to include a 32 sprocket and spread things out a bit more in the ~19-21T range! :shock:
    junior gears

    the 11/30 is a great cassette for those that spin up hills.
  • stevie63
    stevie63 Posts: 481
    I don't know why these wide range cassettes don't start from 12t instead as 12-32 would be a great touring climbing range.
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    stevie63 wrote:
    I don't know why these wide range cassettes don't start from 12t instead as 12-32 would be a great touring climbing range.
    Don't start bringing common sense into it.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    For me the new thing with this groupset is that the long cage rear mech will take a 34 sprocket - ideal for older (and lady?) cyclists. This cassette also fits onto older 10spd freehubs....
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • Lucky Luke
    Lucky Luke Posts: 402
    Svetty wrote:
    This cassette also fits onto older 10spd freehubs....

    That's very interesting. So I could run my "old" DA7850 wheels with a 11 speed cassette? My understanding was that all Shimano 11sp cassettes were wider than 10sp so wouldn't fit on the freehub. So are the new cassettes narrower?
    Luke
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    Lucky Luke wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    This cassette also fits onto older 10spd freehubs....

    That's very interesting. So I could run my "old" DA7850 wheels with a 11 speed cassette? My understanding was that all Shimano 11sp cassettes were wider than 10sp so wouldn't fit on the freehub. So are the new cassettes narrower?

    as i understand it, the large rear cog cassette ie 11/34 and the 11sp MTB ones will fit 10sp hubs, as they are machined different, this isnt the case with the more normal ratio cassettes.
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,833
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Lucky Luke wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    This cassette also fits onto older 10spd freehubs....

    That's very interesting. So I could run my "old" DA7850 wheels with a 11 speed cassette? My understanding was that all Shimano 11sp cassettes were wider than 10sp so wouldn't fit on the freehub. So are the new cassettes narrower?

    as i understand it, the large rear cog cassette ie 11/34 and the 11sp MTB ones will fit 10sp hubs, as they are machined different, this isnt the case with the more normal ratio cassettes.

    I think the 11-34 cassette requires a spacer to be used on and 11 speed hub so that makes sense.
  • bianchi_dave
    bianchi_dave Posts: 933
    MrB123 wrote:
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Lucky Luke wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    This cassette also fits onto older 10spd freehubs....

    That's very interesting. So I could run my "old" DA7850 wheels with a 11 speed cassette? My understanding was that all Shimano 11sp cassettes were wider than 10sp so wouldn't fit on the freehub. So are the new cassettes narrower?

    as i understand it, the large rear cog cassette ie 11/34 and the 11sp MTB ones will fit 10sp hubs, as they are machined different, this isnt the case with the more normal ratio cassettes.

    I think the 11-34 cassette requires a spacer to be used on and 11 speed hub so that makes sense.

    Can confirm this - Just fitted an R8000 (11-30) cassette on an 11 speed hub and no spacer is required. The 11-34 is the only one that needs a 1.85mm spacer if used on 11 speed hubs, and subsequently also fits a 10 speed hub.
    Scott Foil RC
    Scott Addict RC
    Trek Emonda
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,224
    Good to see that Shimano have now made a 30T sprocket available for 11sp, should have been in 6800 from the off IMO.
  • buckmulligan
    buckmulligan Posts: 1,031
    Agreed, I loved the old 12-30 10-speed cassettes, they had a great range and spacing; my only gripe was occasionally spinning out the 12T going downhill, so the new 11-speed 11-30 looks perfect!

    Are these definitely backwards compatible with the previous generation 11-speed stuff (i.e. 105 5800 and Ultegra 6800)? And can anyone report whether a 30T big cog will work with a short-cage rear derailleur? I know the official Shimano line will be that it's not compatible, but just wondering if that's actually the case.

    Just seen the pricing of these :cry: £75 is a lot to pay for an extra 2T on the big cog; hopefully that's just the "newly released" premium pricing and they'll come down a bit in a month or two.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Where can you get these 11-30 11 speed cassettes. I have only seen Dura Ace ones at £140 plus.
  • buckmulligan
    buckmulligan Posts: 1,031
    edited July 2017
    I only had a quick Google, but CRC had the 11-30T in stock, although there may be cheaper options out there:

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... prod161365

    I've just noticed in the Q&A on that page that someone reports using an 11-30T Miche cassette with a short cage Ultegra 6800 derailleur, which is encouraging.

    I suspect that it would clear the 30T cog fine, it'd just be a case of whether the short cage mech has enough capacity to take up the slack of a 19T drop on the back as well as a 16T drop on the front. IIRC my old 5700 mech was right on the limit when trying to do this with a 12-30, so I'm 50-50 as to whether it'll work properly; hopefully the new 11-speed stuff has that little bit more capacity.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,065
    My super-human Google-fu found...
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra ... tte-11-28/
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra ... tte-11-28/
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra ... tte-11-30/
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra ... tte-11-32/
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra ... tte-11-34/

    ;)
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,224
    BuckMulligan wrote:
    Agreed, I loved the old 12-30 10-speed cassettes, they had a great range and spacing; my only gripe was occasionally spinning out the 12T going downhill, so the new 11-speed 11-30 looks perfect!

    Are these definitely backwards compatible with the previous generation 11-speed stuff (i.e. 105 5800 and Ultegra 6800)? And can anyone report whether a 30T big cog will work with a short-cage rear derailleur? I know the official Shimano line will be that it's not compatible, but just wondering if that's actually the case.

    Just seen the pricing of these :cry: £75 is a lot to pay for an extra 2T on the big cog; hopefully that's just the "newly released" premium pricing and they'll come down a bit in a month or two.

    According to the Shimano compatibility chart the CS-8000 cassettes are compatible with 6800. I have seen a Youtue video on here that shows an Aussie guy using a 32T sprocket with a RD-6800 SS by just winding the B-Tension screw in the appropriate amount, so I would hazard a guess that a 30T would work.
  • buckmulligan
    buckmulligan Posts: 1,031
    Sure, the R8000 cassettes in general are backwards compatible, but whether or not an 11-30T could be used with a short cage RD is another issue.

    I've just looked up the specs for an RD-6800-SS and it states a max sprocket size of 28T and a capacity of 33T; so an 11-30T would be officially incompatible on both fronts (with the required capacity being 35T on most normal chainring combos) but as you say, there are plenty of anecdotes of people exceeding these specs.

    I reckon there's a good chance it will work, but it'd be good to hear some first hand feedback if anyone tries it.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Lucky Luke wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    This cassette also fits onto older 10spd freehubs....

    That's very interesting. So I could run my "old" DA7850 wheels with a 11 speed cassette? My understanding was that all Shimano 11sp cassettes were wider than 10sp so wouldn't fit on the freehub. So are the new cassettes narrower?

    nope. same dimensions as current 9000/9100/5800/6800

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