I'm racist!

1235

Comments

  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Veronese68 wrote:
    It's a good thing different people are attracted to different types, were it not for that a lot of us would be lonely.
    Or inbred.

    I honestly can't see what the fuss is about - Rolf or C4.
    I get tired of the holier than thou race to the bottom of the politically correct barrel. It does irritate me that some deranged baroness in the House of Lords (in article and programme) thinks it's OK to label me a racist because I have a specific taste in female beauty. And I dislike being labelled a white racist by someone by whose own standards could be labelled a black racist (the lass presenting the programme). I wonder where this is all leading to.
    But mainly it seemed like the basis for a fun thread!
    Rolf, just caught up with this thread and I have to say you have gone up a bit in my estimations :)

    If you're at fault for anything in my books, it was thinking that you could make a fun thread on the subject of racism given this is Cake Stop and some of the 'usual suspects' on here...a bit like fun threads on the subject of politics :wink:

    I'm not sure whether I should accept this as a compliment or worry that I have inadvertently said something wrong (other than (deliberately) saying that I'm racist but I think we are probably all agreed that this programme has made being racist acceptable again!). :D

    The thread has only gone downhill because I've been away for a week and couldn't look after it. This bunch of idiots will drag any thread down given half a chance. They wouldn't even be able to do a thread on the cuddliness of cute bunny rabbits without bringing Hitler into it.
    MrB123 wrote:
    Good thread this.

    I'm still trying to work out if not fancying Caitlyn Jenner makes me trans-phobic.

    Ultimately it may be safer not to fancy anyone at all on the basis that if I do fancy someone I may be objectifying him/her/them or potentially discriminating against some other oppressed minority group.

    I like this. So if I discriminate against everybody on the basis of colour equally, then I'm no longer racist? I can, for example, choose not to employ someone solely on the basis of colour as long as I don't employ anyone else either! I can't argue with that logic.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Be like an American businessmen doing a deal in Japan for the first time. Accept that you'll offend someone in a increasingly rules based culture. Once acceptance is there you can move on.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,549
    Rolf F wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Veronese68 wrote:
    It's a good thing different people are attracted to different types, were it not for that a lot of us would be lonely.
    Or inbred.

    I honestly can't see what the fuss is about - Rolf or C4.
    I get tired of the holier than thou race to the bottom of the politically correct barrel. It does irritate me that some deranged baroness in the House of Lords (in article and programme) thinks it's OK to label me a racist because I have a specific taste in female beauty. And I dislike being labelled a white racist by someone by whose own standards could be labelled a black racist (the lass presenting the programme). I wonder where this is all leading to.
    But mainly it seemed like the basis for a fun thread!
    Rolf, just caught up with this thread and I have to say you have gone up a bit in my estimations :)

    If you're at fault for anything in my books, it was thinking that you could make a fun thread on the subject of racism given this is Cake Stop and some of the 'usual suspects' on here...a bit like fun threads on the subject of politics :wink:

    I'm not sure whether I should accept this as a compliment or worry that I have inadvertently said something wrong (other than (deliberately) saying that I'm racist but I think we are probably all agreed that this programme has made being racist acceptable again!). :D

    The thread has only gone downhill because I've been away for a week and couldn't look after it. This bunch of idiots will drag any thread down given half a chance. They wouldn't even be able to do a thread on the cuddliness of cute bunny rabbits without bringing Hitler into it.
    All you had to do was ask and I could have 'guided' the thread for you Rolf. Anyhow, take it as a compliment.

    As regards the 'test' done, most normal people would simply say it's a question of personal taste. I don't worry about a knock on the door from the PC Police though, as given my wife's ethnic heritage I have PC credentials that others on here can only dream of :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Veronese68 wrote:
    It's a good thing different people are attracted to different types, were it not for that a lot of us would be lonely.
    Or inbred.

    I honestly can't see what the fuss is about - Rolf or C4.
    I get tired of the holier than thou race to the bottom of the politically correct barrel. It does irritate me that some deranged baroness in the House of Lords (in article and programme) thinks it's OK to label me a racist because I have a specific taste in female beauty. And I dislike being labelled a white racist by someone by whose own standards could be labelled a black racist (the lass presenting the programme). I wonder where this is all leading to.
    But mainly it seemed like the basis for a fun thread!
    Rolf, just caught up with this thread and I have to say you have gone up a bit in my estimations :)

    If you're at fault for anything in my books, it was thinking that you could make a fun thread on the subject of racism given this is Cake Stop and some of the 'usual suspects' on here...a bit like fun threads on the subject of politics :wink:

    I'm not sure whether I should accept this as a compliment or worry that I have inadvertently said something wrong (other than (deliberately) saying that I'm racist but I think we are probably all agreed that this programme has made being racist acceptable again!). :D

    The thread has only gone downhill because I've been away for a week and couldn't look after it. This bunch of idiots will drag any thread down given half a chance. They wouldn't even be able to do a thread on the cuddliness of cute bunny rabbits without bringing Hitler into it.
    All you had to do was ask and I could have 'guided' the thread for you Rolf. Anyhow, take it as a compliment.

    As regards the 'test' done, most normal people would simply say it's a question of personal taste. I don't worry about a knock on the door from the PC Police though, as given my wife's ethnic heritage I have PC credentials that others on here can only dream of :)

    Stevo - in the unlikely event that I ever post another thread that makes it to more than 2 pages, please consider it left in your capable hands if I need to be away from it!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,549
    Rolf, no problem if you can just see your way to looking after the Labour Party thread while I'm away next month :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • bartman100
    bartman100 Posts: 544
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alex99 wrote:
    To the OP, I understand your anger. Similar to the accusation of racism, in the social sciences, the view that sex isn't biological but is self determined, fluid and can change even from day to day is becoming the norm. So if you're male and you fancy women, but define that biologically as people with a vagina, then you're being sexist. Because, why don't fancy someone who has a penis, but self identifies as a female? You've been labelled as an oppressor.

    Rejection of science is central to much of this thinking. In Canada for example, some of the laws recently passed make teaching some aspects of biology on sex differences effectively illegal because it can be classed as a hate crime.

    This is part of a larger ideologically driven agenda which includes any way that you can think of to be a victim and label someone else (usually white men) as the oppressor.

    Another area that ignores science is equality of outcome in employment. There was an interview on Radio 4 yesterday from a young female who is a mechanical engineer. The interviewer was asking about how to get more women into engineering. On the surface a positive thing to try to achieve, right? No, not obviously. The part where they discuss whether this is good for everyone involved and whether there is equality of opportunity (which IS the most important thing) was completely bypassed. It's just assumed (incorrectly) that in the absence of (not obviously present in western societies at the present period) social pressure and institutional sexism that we will have 50:50 across all occupations.

    I think this twitter feed is for you.

    https://twitter.com/manwhohasitall?lang=en

    I think this twitter feed is for you Rick:
    https://twitter.com/SoPretentious
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,693
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    I don't worry about a knock on the door from the PC Police though, as given my wife's ethnic heritage I have PC credentials that others on here can only dream of :)
    Strewth, she's not a Scouser is she?
  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    orraloon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    I don't worry about a knock on the door from the PC Police though, as given my wife's ethnic heritage I have PC credentials that others on here can only dream of :)
    Strewth, she's not a Scouser is she?
    Or ginger?
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,549
    You're both wronger than a wrong thing.

    Let's just say that when we go on holiday next month, I'm not convinced that she will get through US passport control without some additional 'security checks'. If she's been a miserable cow on the flight it'll at least give me a bit of a laugh :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,549
    bartman100 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alex99 wrote:
    To the OP, I understand your anger. Similar to the accusation of racism, in the social sciences, the view that sex isn't biological but is self determined, fluid and can change even from day to day is becoming the norm. So if you're male and you fancy women, but define that biologically as people with a vagina, then you're being sexist. Because, why don't fancy someone who has a penis, but self identifies as a female? You've been labelled as an oppressor.

    Rejection of science is central to much of this thinking. In Canada for example, some of the laws recently passed make teaching some aspects of biology on sex differences effectively illegal because it can be classed as a hate crime.

    This is part of a larger ideologically driven agenda which includes any way that you can think of to be a victim and label someone else (usually white men) as the oppressor.

    Another area that ignores science is equality of outcome in employment. There was an interview on Radio 4 yesterday from a young female who is a mechanical engineer. The interviewer was asking about how to get more women into engineering. On the surface a positive thing to try to achieve, right? No, not obviously. The part where they discuss whether this is good for everyone involved and whether there is equality of opportunity (which IS the most important thing) was completely bypassed. It's just assumed (incorrectly) that in the absence of (not obviously present in western societies at the present period) social pressure and institutional sexism that we will have 50:50 across all occupations.

    I think this twitter feed is for you.

    https://twitter.com/manwhohasitall?lang=en

    I think this twitter feed is for you Rick:
    https://twitter.com/SoPretentious
    :D
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    In fairness, I've said half the stuff on that feed, including "Nice shoes, I remember I had a pair when they were in season", and obviously I asked everyone in the office about which lyric they liked in Kendrick Lamar's recent album.


    So.


    Yah.
    _
  • bartman100
    bartman100 Posts: 544
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    In fairness, I've said half the stuff on that feed, including "Nice shoes, I remember I had a pair when they were in season", and obviously I asked everyone in the office about which lyric they liked in Kendrick Lamar's recent album.


    So.


    Yah.

    I couldn't see this on that feed though "Understanding there is a difference between anthropophagy and cannibalism for example"
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    bartman100 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    In fairness, I've said half the stuff on that feed, including "Nice shoes, I remember I had a pair when they were in season", and obviously I asked everyone in the office about which lyric they liked in Kendrick Lamar's recent album.


    So.


    Yah.

    I couldn't see this on that feed though "Understanding there is a difference between anthropophagy and cannibalism for example"

    Well, do you?
    _
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    bartman100 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    In fairness, I've said half the stuff on that feed, including "Nice shoes, I remember I had a pair when they were in season", and obviously I asked everyone in the office about which lyric they liked in Kendrick Lamar's recent album.


    So.


    Yah.

    I couldn't see this on that feed though "Understanding there is a difference between anthropophagy and cannibalism for example"

    Well, do you?

    Cannibalism can be used when referring to other species and anthropophagy specifically refers to humans?

    Or are you talking about how the word has been derived?
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    bartman100 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alex99 wrote:
    To the OP, I understand your anger. Similar to the accusation of racism, in the social sciences, the view that sex isn't biological but is self determined, fluid and can change even from day to day is becoming the norm. So if you're male and you fancy women, but define that biologically as people with a vagina, then you're being sexist. Because, why don't fancy someone who has a penis, but self identifies as a female? You've been labelled as an oppressor.

    Rejection of science is central to much of this thinking. In Canada for example, some of the laws recently passed make teaching some aspects of biology on sex differences effectively illegal because it can be classed as a hate crime.

    This is part of a larger ideologically driven agenda which includes any way that you can think of to be a victim and label someone else (usually white men) as the oppressor.

    Another area that ignores science is equality of outcome in employment. There was an interview on Radio 4 yesterday from a young female who is a mechanical engineer. The interviewer was asking about how to get more women into engineering. On the surface a positive thing to try to achieve, right? No, not obviously. The part where they discuss whether this is good for everyone involved and whether there is equality of opportunity (which IS the most important thing) was completely bypassed. It's just assumed (incorrectly) that in the absence of (not obviously present in western societies at the present period) social pressure and institutional sexism that we will have 50:50 across all occupations.

    I think this twitter feed is for you.

    https://twitter.com/manwhohasitall?lang=en

    I think this twitter feed is for you Rick:
    https://twitter.com/SoPretentious

    So on this topic.

    http://www.cityam.com/270332/instilling ... end-crisis

    A study looking at a leadingSwedish political party who enforced gender quotas.
    Besley and his colleagues come to a conclusion which is as strong empirically as it is perhaps surprising. They find that the introduction of gender quotas drove out substantial numbers of mediocre male politicians. Not only that. In the areas where female representation was increased the most by the quota, the competence of the men who were elected also rose decisively.

    The findings, they claim, have a relevance which goes beyond politics. For example, the chairman or chief executive usually have an important influence on the selection of board members. One of the motivations for incompetent leaders picking low quality candidates is that they feel less threatened by them. This creates a vicious circle of mediocrity.

    The analysis also finds that the higher the competence of its leaders, the more likely a party was to win an election.
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,803
    As proof, I give you Theresa May.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    PBlakeney wrote:
    As proof, I give you Theresa May.

    I see your Theresa May and raise you Diane Abbott
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,803
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    As proof, I give you Theresa May.

    I see your Theresa May and raise you Diane Abbott
    Not a leader though.
    More incompetent I'll grant you.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    Are similar studies about board effectiveness regarding gender quotas (also Norway), but given this was new, and in CityAM (not normally a bastion of gender diversity), I figured it was worth a mention.
    _
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    We have an interesting predicament at my place of work. The company kicked off a diversity agenda a couple of years ago, with the initial focus on gender. In our EMEA business we are broadening it to also cover ethnicity, but are facing resistance from........the heads of the gender diversity group. They have done a great job recently in discrediting themselves by insisting that the company should focus on the thread of diversity that they care about, but ignore others.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    Kingstonian wrote:
    We have an interesting predicament at my place of work. The company kicked off a diversity agenda a couple of years ago, with the initial focus on gender. In our EMEA business we are broadening it to also cover ethnicity, but are facing resistance from........the heads of the gender diversity group. They have done a great job recently in discrediting themselves by insisting that the company should focus on the thread of diversity that they care about, but ignore others.

    Rick Chasey earlier on in the thread wrote:
    .

    It’s broadly accepted that with regard to gender, there is definitely an issue, but the issue is widely understood across industries, and at a senior level, there has been good progress which, currently, looks set to continue.

    So while it’s clearly not solved, things are moving in the right direction, and it’s tempting to stay positive.

    Regarding the issue on ethnic diversity, the challenge is more complicated. Broadly speaking, discussing race is more complex and more taboo than discussing “female talent”. “who are the future female leaders that are coming up through your business, and how can we ensure traditional cultural barriers within the business are removed to help their trajectory?” is an easy conversation to have. If you asked “who are the future ethnically diverse leaders that are coming up through your business, and how can we ensure traditional cultural barriers within the business are removed to help their trajectory?” you’ll get shut down; not least because you get involved in rather difficult conversations around what defines ethnically diverse or not.
    (FWIW, with gender, though also not binary, non-male is perfectly acceptable; non-white isn’t > it leads to rather bizarre conversations around “are they brown enough?” which is clearly not the right way to go about it).

    .

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.

    There's been quite a few sex discrimination law suits.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.

    There's been quite a few sex discrimination law suits.

    Sure.

    I'm just giving the advice we were given by our lawyer, regarding how we handle that vs gender.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.

    There's been quite a few sex discrimination law suits.

    Sure.

    I'm just giving the advice we were given by our lawyer, regarding how we handle that vs gender.

    I find that quite a weak position and indicative that something is wrong.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,328
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.

    There's been quite a few sex discrimination law suits.

    Sure.

    I'm just giving the advice we were given by our lawyer, regarding how we handle that vs gender.

    I find that quite a weak position and indicative that something is wrong.
    I agree, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. I realise the lawyer is only advising that it's tricky, but it sounds like he's saying that means it shouldn't be dealt with. With regards to Kingstonian's post I find it absurd that people can complain about one form of discrimination but accepting of others. Absurd, but not all that surprising.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.

    There's been quite a few sex discrimination law suits.

    Sure.

    I'm just giving the advice we were given by our lawyer, regarding how we handle that vs gender.

    I find that quite a weak position and indicative that something is wrong.

    I'm not disagreeing.

    Look, I got royally b*ll*cked in my old company for turning down work with a middle eastern client who refused to hire women, gays, and wanted a fee structure that determined the size of our fee based on the nationality and ethnicity of the successful candidate.

    £100k for White American
    £80k, White European
    £50k local
    £30k East Asian.

    etc.

    They reduced my bonus as a result of that.

    Their argument was I should have negotiated; I was too honest and told my boss that when I was presented with those terms I stood up and left.

    I do more than my bit for both sides, and I am the internal 'ethnic diversity' champion in my current company; I do this for a living.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    For clarity, Rick, I wasn't suggesting that you need to do more. You can hold your head up high with regard to your old company.
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    Veronese68 wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Ethnicity is a minefield of lawsuits. You need to be really careful. It's much more difficult to enact.

    There's been quite a few sex discrimination law suits.

    Sure.

    I'm just giving the advice we were given by our lawyer, regarding how we handle that vs gender.

    I find that quite a weak position and indicative that something is wrong.
    I agree, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. I realise the lawyer is only advising that it's tricky, but it sounds like he's saying that means it shouldn't be dealt with. With regards to Kingstonian's post I find it absurd that people can complain about one form of discrimination but accepting of others. Absurd, but not all that surprising.


    Yep, the hypocrisy is staggering

    There is plenty that can be done to encourage greater ethnic diversity and representation in an organisation, starting with the recruitment process.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,737
    Like what, Kingston?
    _

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