"On your right"

pblakeney

I did the closed road Caledonia Etape a few years ago.
Quite frankly, it was safer during an open road reconnaissance. First, and last, sportive.

imposter2.0

mac9091 wrote:

I don't agree that Sportives aren't races. IMO they are, not against each other but if you intend on going back the following year then you will want to better your previous time, therefore it is a race.

Your definition of a 'race' needs some work...

thegreatdivide

What I want to know is why SecretSam – member since 2007 with 4298 posts – is still dicking about with posts in the Beginners section?

slowbike

Imposter wrote:

mac9091 wrote:

I don't agree that Sportives aren't races. IMO they are, not against each other but if you intend on going back the following year then you will want to better your previous time, therefore it is a race.

Your definition of a 'race' needs some work...

Not at all ...

Whenever there is more than one cyclist travelling in the same direction it is a race and whenever there is a clock ticking it is a race. Whether the other entrants know about it or not is irrelevant.

ugo.santalucia

thegreatdivide wrote:

What I want to know is why SecretSam – member since 2007 with 4298 posts – is still dicking about with posts in the Beginners section?

THIS!

secretsam

thegreatdivide wrote:

What I want to know is why SecretSam – member since 2007 with 4298 posts – is still dicking about with posts in the Beginners section?

Or thegreatdivide, with even more posts, is still dicking about (4,478 and counting). Perhaps because that's all my posts, including a substantial Commuting contribution? Perhaps because I couldn't think where else to post?

Anyway, back on topic: I don't have a problem with being asked to move aside for a faster rider, and I recognise that I'm slow, and others will be quicker. What I object to is riders barrelling through riders without showing consideration. It is not a race.

Oh, and as others have posted - the route planning sucks, it's really, really narrow, so conflict is inevitable... :roll: - still no excuse for charging through (and yes, people did do this, literally riding full tilt through the groups of riders)

kingstongraham

What was the prize for the fastest?

slowbike

KingstonGraham wrote:

What was the prize for the fastest?

Dunno - but the one who shouted the most whilst barrelling through the slowest riders got a big Knob shaped balloon

imposter2.0

Slowbike wrote:

Imposter wrote:

mac9091 wrote:

I don't agree that Sportives aren't races. IMO they are, not against each other but if you intend on going back the following year then you will want to better your previous time, therefore it is a race.

Your definition of a 'race' needs some work...

Not at all ...

Whenever there is more than one cyclist travelling in the same direction it is a race and whenever there is a clock ticking it is a race. Whether the other entrants know about it or not is irrelevant.

I think your definition needs some work as well..

kingstongraham

In quite a few undeclared races, it is not difficult to determine the loser.

ugo.santalucia

Sportives have always been a bit sketchy, but profit driven events command larger crowds, easier courses and then of course Strava means they are now hyper-competitive.
Adding an extra element of competitiveness is probably a bit foolhardy by the organisers and I wonder if that was ever discussed with the local authorities, who are unlikely to grant permission to anything with a competitive element.

Over the past 3-4 years I have seen some pretty nasty crashes in places where you would not expect people to crash, typically fairly easy bends, which suggest some folks ride too fast and beyond their ability.

I have began to be a bit weary of riding with too many aggressive people around me, I perceive it as being way more dangerous than looping around the Vauxhall roundabout, to give you an idea... so I have decided it's best to do something different.

twist83

I think RideLondon is testament to people riding well beyond there abilities.

I did it 3 years ago and saw 2 people on the floor before we even got to the start line!!!!

rick_chasey

n00bs are properly annoying when you're steaming past and they don't even look over their shoulder before pulling out to pass someone though.

N00b advice. Check over your shoulder before you pull out!

Tashman

Rick Chasey wrote:

n00bs are properly annoying when you're steaming past and they don't even look over their shoulder before pulling out to pass someone though.

N00b advice. Check over your shoulder before you pull out!

Conversely maybe at an event with many "noobs" then experienced riders should be on the lookout for this behaviour and ride at speeds accordingly, in the same way that drivers "should" adapt to the traffic around them

rick_chasey

Well sure, but what am I supposed to do?

Not pass?

Whisper in the guy's ear first?

Tashman

Slow down until it's safe to pass! You know like all the car and truck drivers do

rick_chasey

Tashman wrote:

Slow down until it's safe to pass! You know like all the car and truck drivers do

I am.

It's the veering out without looking I'm complaining about.

Palladium

Perfect recipe for (usually) guys to be racing on a road:

• At least two cyclists on road bikes moving in the same direction (lower the combined SCR score, the more likely that the race is on)
• Timed event
• Club/fan kit

Sounds to me like OP should have expected this..

Personally I didn't spend £2k+ to dllly dally yootle tootle, but one should also respect other riders on the road

slowbike

Imposter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Imposter wrote:

mac9091 wrote:

I don't agree that Sportives aren't races. IMO they are, not against each other but if you intend on going back the following year then you will want to better your previous time, therefore it is a race.

Your definition of a 'race' needs some work...

Not at all ...

Whenever there is more than one cyclist travelling in the same direction it is a race and whenever there is a clock ticking it is a race. Whether the other entrants know about it or not is irrelevant.

I think your definition needs some work as well..

Sorry - did forget to add ... "Unless I'm on a recovery ride" .... there you go ... all bases covered

ryan_w-2

Rick Chasey wrote:

n00bs are properly annoying when you're steaming past and they don't even look over their shoulder before pulling out to pass someone though.

N00b advice. Check over your shoulder before you pull out!

THIS!

Had my last crash due to some headphone wearing c**t not checking over his shoulder and just pulling out... I screamed at him and tried to go around him, but ended up in the back or a Renault Megane on Grosvenor Road. Cheers.

At least he waited to check it if was ok.... Oh no, he didn't, he cycled off without a care in the world.

meanredspider

Ryan_W wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

n00bs are properly annoying when you're steaming past and they don't even look over their shoulder before pulling out to pass someone though.

N00b advice. Check over your shoulder before you pull out!

THIS!

Had my last crash due to some headphone wearing c**t not checking over his shoulder and just pulling out... I screamed at him and tried to go around him, but ended up in the back or a Renault Megane on Grosvenor Road. Cheers.

At least he waited to check it if was ok.... Oh no, he didn't, he cycled off without a care in the world.

You can say the same about someone that doors you but that doesn't help after the event. The point is sportives don't have any qualification requirements so you should expect a substantial quantity of people to do things that you don't expect. That's why there are races and race licences - it provides some control in a competitive environment that inherently adds risk.

I get where sportives, like Etape Caledonia, have timed sections on steepish climbs: all speeds are reduced and it's very easy to slow up. There isn't a lot of risk.

slowbike

meanredspider wrote:

Ryan_W wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

n00bs are properly annoying when you're steaming past and they don't even look over their shoulder before pulling out to pass someone though.

N00b advice. Check over your shoulder before you pull out!

THIS!

Had my last crash due to some headphone wearing c**t not checking over his shoulder and just pulling out... I screamed at him and tried to go around him, but ended up in the back or a Renault Megane on Grosvenor Road. Cheers.

At least he waited to check it if was ok.... Oh no, he didn't, he cycled off without a care in the world.

You can say the same about someone that doors you but that doesn't help after the event. The point is sportives don't have any qualification requirements so you should expect a substantial quantity of people to do things that you don't expect. That's why there are races and race licences - it provides some control in a competitive environment that inherently adds risk.

I get where sportives, like Etape Caledonia, have timed sections on steepish climbs: all speeds are reduced and it's very easy to slow up. There isn't a lot of risk.

Open or closed road sportive - they're timed events - they're just not a formal race. People can chose whether to "race" or not - it's quite normal for riders to want to ride hard and get a "good time" or "higher average speed" - the closed road events just mean you don't have to worry about other traffic - just other riders. But I agree with the general sentiment that you should take care and not buzz other riders - there's just no need. The "On your Right" call is helpful though as otherwise the rider may not know there's someone coming through.

The timed KOM sections - it's just a nice hill climb after a warm up - totally get it - but doesn't mean those going faster can be dicks about it - any more than the slower riders should hog the road.

We can all play nicely if we just consider that we're not the most important person on the road.

meanredspider

I get that people want to go fast but it falls a long way short of anything that I'd call a race.

So you came in 225th out of 4000. What does it tell you? The guy who came in 224th might not even have been trying. Or he might have sucked the wheels of a large group. He might have stopped at all the feed stations. It's not really even valid to compare you time to last year (warmer/windier more or less riders). To me, it's just not any sort of a race. That's why it's not called "a race".

rick_chasey

You want a decent time, no?

meanredspider

Rick Chasey wrote:

You want a decent time, no?

Depends. Last one I did I towed my brother around.

ETA - I generally see them as social events. If I want to batter myself to death, I go on my own. And time only counts for me as a measure of fitness towards a goal. I'd push myself much harder doing the 163k training lap of the Markermeer than I would on a sportive.

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

You want a decent time, no?

Depends. Last one I did I towed my brother around.

ETA - I generally see them as social events. If I want to batter myself to death, I go on my own. And time only counts for me as a measure of fitness towards a goal. I'd push myself much harder doing the 163k training lap of the Markermeer than I would on a sportive.

Fair enough.

I'm not normally bothered about sportives - not having a car makes most of them a PITA to get to and from.

Ride London literally goes passed my house; I cheered my club mates on last year.

Quite excited at the prospect of smashing it along roads I know well that are shut to traffic. Friends are popping over to the finish & having brunch afterwards.

The time for me is kinda what it's about. I know what I can knock out normally - I do it more or less every weekend.

On shut roads I'm looking forward to not having to wait for traffic lights (or club mates at the top or bottom of hills )

cycleclinic

Some people ride quicker than others. The road was narrow saying on your right is a way of announcing your are there and wanting to pass. That should be expected and it is better than the alternative. It is a bit like sitting in the outer lane at 60 mph on a motorway. The motorway may not be a race track but you are going to get flashed driving like that. Little point in getting annoyed about both as it is a fact of life.

Life is way to short to spend it getting annoyed about stuff like this. Also some audax riders are very quick.

I dont like sportives much at all. I'll do the odd european event every year which are grand fondo format which is the same thing but you still have to ride with consideration to others. Part of that is not ambling along and filling up the road. It goes both ways. There has been some pretty sketchy riding at the TOC with folk jostling for position at the end but its 200th place it seriously is not worth it, it might be a british thing. Perhaps us brits are not that good on a bike.

I dont remember this encountering this kind of riding common to uk events on the continent maybe it is there but I have not noticed because I am on holiday.

Audax's are quite appealing really. I even have an audax uk membership.

stevie63

The one and only Sportive I entered (Chase the rising Sun) I got a little bit annoyed not with the On your right call and pass, but how close some club riders passed by just a few cms in some cases. The worst of these was a group of about 10 riders passing on a tight left hand bend which had a pothole halfway round with no way to avoid it. This was an overnight ride which added to the potential danger. Conversely first overnight Audax starting at midnight no issues at all in spite of the fact that many of the riders were fast club riders.

mac9091

Slowbike wrote:

Not at all ...

Whenever there is more than one cyclist travelling in the same direction it is a race and whenever there is a clock ticking it is a race. Whether the other entrants know about it or not is irrelevant.

LOL, when they don't know about it is the best ones.

Imposter wrote:

Your definition of a 'race' needs some work...

So you never go out on your bike and try to better your time on a segment/route?

I was referring to a race against yourself. Therefore still a race.

imposter2.0

mac9091 wrote:

So you never go out on your bike and try to better your time on a segment/route?

I was referring to a race against yourself. Therefore still a race.

Racing yourself is generally called 'chasing a PB' or similar. Most 'actual' races take place either on closed circuits or within a race convoy, or on closed roads, where normal traffic regulations are temporarily suspended. This doesn't sound like one of those occasions. So no, not a race.