Tubeless kit advice

SME

Hi.

I've just taken the plunge and swapped to tubeless tyres. The main reason was the amount of punctures I was getting on my commute to work - even if I can reduce these it would be a bonus, but I know no tyre is completely foolproof. And I'm impressed so far with the 'ride quality'.

I have two questions...

1) What to carry for that 'hopefully never needed' roadside repair... a spare inner tube and tyre levers, or a tubeless repair kit (rubber 'worms')?

2) Can anyone recommend a decent mini pump? I have an Axiom Blastair which has been fine up until now, but doesn't seem to fit the new valves too well (it has to be held on very 'securely' - the rubber seal just about reaches the thread on the valve, if this makes sense).

Thanks in advance for any help.
Steve

ugo.santalucia

1) same as normal clinchers... a spare tube and levers... no point in trying to fix a tubeless tyre at the side of the road if it's beyond sealant

2) Any pump should so the job... unless your valves are really short, like Mavic's.

cycleclinic

I disagree. I dont carry a tube. I carry flexible superglue and tyre worms. Fixed a hole on sundays long 220 mile ride this way. It has held. I have even fixed a side wall cut this way. The one thing I dont want to do it take a tubeess tyre off at the side of the road. done that once then discovered the fixes I now use. I the cut is really bad then I have patches and tyre levers in the panniers. I could remove the tyre clean it up with some roll and apply a inner tube patch or fit a spare tyre if I have one. On the race bike I simply have flexible superglue and a pump in the back pocket. If the tyre is compromised beyond the ability of flexible superglue to fix it I dont want to be trying a tube as the tyre will probably bulge.

The only time a tube is helpful is if you damage the rim so the tyre wont seal. Done that once and I did fit a tube but the tyre would not pop into place under limited pressure from a hand pump and to say it were lumpy is an understatment. In fact it was so lumpy I decided after that to never carry a tube again and if I bend a rim I call a cab.

I am on a better pump search. With tubeless you rarley go completley flat. On sunday the tyre lost a bit of air and while it was semi holding at 40 psi I applied the superglue. this sealed it properly. I however did not dare use my small topeak pump as I would have lost all the air then had to reinflate probably back to 40 psi. I rode like that for 40 miles from scarborough to beverley with load in the panniers without issue until I found a halfords and borrowed there track pump. I could have done the remainder of the ride back to suffolk at 40 psi. So a better pump is needed for sure. When I have found the ideal one I will post.

I have done many miles on tubeless tyres on and off road on MTB's and road bikes and never have I been stranded.

joe2008

Over 100 psi no problem with this beauty:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-micro-fl ... ith-gauge/

cycleclinic

It is not getting up to high pressure that is the problem it is not loosing what air I have left. This is the one problem I have with topeak pumps. Fitting them to the valve head is followed by alot of hissing. I might give the leyene a try.

joe2008

thecycleclinic wrote:

It is not getting up to high pressure that is the problem it is not loosing what air I have left. This is the one problem I have with topeak pumps. Fitting them to the valve head is followed by alot of hissing. I might give the leyene a try.

Well, you said that you're getting to 40psi, so, unless you're on a mountain bike, high pressure is a problem... the Lezyene has ABS which stops it losing air when you remove the pump from the valve.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

I disagree. I dont carry a tube. I carry flexible superglue and tyre worms..

No jelly babies?

Don't know, you might be up to something, but unless one knows what he is doing, I'd say fitting an inner tube is a familiar procedure... playing with jellies and glue is not

veryslowtwitch

this is interesting, i still carry a tube because I know I can fit it in all weather without thinking but would like to know alternatives.

Do you have a link to worms and glue technique? do you have a quick guide please?

(I just carry gas or sometimes the tiny blackburn pumps which can get me home. Not very high pressures but that's ok for tubeless)

Thanks in advance to worm people

Alan

veryslowtwitch

Also gas has been great for small holes when I have only lost half the pressure. Just whack in half a cylinder, puncture sealed, riding again in 60 seconds.

joe2008

https://www.merlincycles.com/weldtite-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-85065.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-GB&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Puncture+Repair&ucpo=23150&gclid=Cj0KEQjwhMjKBRDjxb31j-aesI4BEiQA7ivN-CTilIH2UmQ6nr8oxqZjPZeSrjLHepGT5GCICBYv0lMaAlaJ8P8HAQ

SME

Thanks for all the replies.

That tubeless kit from Merlin is the one I was considering too. I have a tubeless kit for a motorcycle which I've used quite successfully so the idea of repairing tubeless with such kit is not something new to me. And yes, I'll be carrying Jelly Babies too!

If I find an ideal pump I'll post it here too. Don't particularly favour canisters - while quick , small, and convenient, that I have to pay for a single use item (which may not be sufficient to complete the job) does nag at me a little.

Thanks again, all.

bobones

I have the Weldtite kit and the Genuine Innovations one. The worms in the GI kit are much thinner than the Weldtite ones. Are the thinner worms perhaps more suitable for road tyres?

My tubeless repair kit is the same as my old non-tubeless kit, except I carry one spare tube instead of two, and I also carry a pack of worms with insertion tool, rubber glue, a valve core extractor, and and a CO2/sealant canister like this one.

sloppyschleckonds

Taking spare tubes defeats the point of tubeless
How do you repair your tube if it punctures?
Tube repair kit as well?

singleton

I carry a tube, levers and a pump.
I've had one puncture since going over to tubeless and it was a slow deflation. I was able to stop and inflate the tyre, ride on for a few miles, stop and inflate - so the tyre didn't go down and didn't come off the rim.

ugo.santalucia

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Taking spare tubes defeats the point of tubeless
How do you repair your tube if it punctures?
Tube repair kit as well?

It depends what kind of cycling you do Sloppy... if it's the kind where you pick up your phone and somebody picks you up half an hour later, then everything is game... nothing, worms, patches, jelly babies... if it's the kind where you have to walk to the next village or town with a station then you might want to stick to a repair method tried and tested: for most people this involves fitting an inner tube.

Of course one can deliberately damage old tyres and try to fix them with those worm thingies, so that he gets familiar with the process, but frankly I can't be bothered and I am not keen to walk to the next town with a station.. especially in Wales!

The point of tubeless is not that of not carrying a spare, but that of being very unlikely to need it... that means if you go for a spin in RIchmond park, you can probably leave it at home, but if you go for a 200 km ride, you might want to take it anyway, just in case. I carry exactly the same spares I used to when I was on clinchers, but I've never had to use them

veryslowtwitch

Is the rubber glue used to coat the worms? (weirdest question I've asked)

Also how easy is it to use the repair kits with cold hands/gloves? I can barely replace tyre bead in the cold so I am looking for any easier solution.

cycleclinic

No one will come and pick me up 100 miles from home. I do this all the time. I do not carry a tube because fitting a worm and then apply flexibale super glue will fix really big holes. Worms by themselves sometimes works but not always. the two together and bingo.

For sidewall cuts the superglue works a treat. Done 3000km of a repaired sidewall although the puncture was small. A bigger one would have been a problem.

I have written a guide. look at the news section on my website. Fitting a tube is really more hassle than its worth. With worms and flexible superglue you can fix almost every puncture. The ones that you can't are because you need a new tyre in those cases a tube wont help much either.

I am not brave either I have just experiemented and found what works.

cycleclinic

I don't carry jelly babies when I ride either. I dont tend to eat sweets much I do stop for cake though, cake and coffee uhmm getting hungry just writing this.

singleton

Fixing the tyre is surely only half the solution though.
Carrying a tube means that I can use a regular pump to inflate it, but if I fix a tubeless tyre at the road side, how can I get it seated and inflated using a portable pump? Or do you use co2 for this?

joe2008

Singleton wrote:

Fixing the tyre is surely only half the solution though.
Carrying a tube means that I can use a regular pump to inflate it, but if I fix a tubeless tyre at the road side, how can I get it seated and inflated using a portable pump? Or do you use co2 for this?

I use Clement Strada LGG tubeless tubulars, the best of both worlds, without the drawbacks of tubeless or tubulars.

cycleclinic

As I have said tubeless tyres tend not to go flat. If they do loose all the air the tyre does not pop of the rim. If it does with no pressure it means your wheels fall into the class of not being that tubeless compatable and you should not be using tubeless tyres with them. Inflating with CO2 often cause a puncture that wont seal to seal but at the expense of ruining the sealant. Again I have written all this up and I am repeating it again. check the website and the latest news section it is all there.

Tubeless tyres are good at sealing themselves at low pressure. They can be repaired in the way I have outlined with air in them. Watch the video I have done i did for this reason to try and dispell the myths.

Tubeless tyres are tubeless. You dont go sticking a inner tube in a car tyre if you get a puncture so why do this with a bicycle tubeless tyre. I can assure having tried on a cold january evening in 2014 or was it 2015 not sure now. it was a thankless task that could have been avoided if I knew what I know now.

ugo.santalucia

If you have a very tight rim/tyre combo, you will struggle to fit an inner tube, but to be honest I've never had such combination. These days most tubeless tyres seem to go on easily without levers, I don't find them any tighter than a clincher... don't see the problem in fitting an inner tube, especially if the tyre is a 25/28 or so and the inner tube is skinny.

I rather have the opposite problem: once the tyre has stretched, it is almost impossible to fit it a second time and go tubeless, as it's too wide for the rim... even with an airshot, there seems to be no way to blow it up

bobones

Has anyone got any first hand experience of CO2 "ruining" sealant? From what I have read, there is no chemical reaction, rather the CO2 has very little moisture and is very cold which may cause the sealant to set or dry up. If you add the CO2 with the valve at the top of rim and let the sealant settle at the bottom, you should avoid giving it a cold blast. The problem of lack of moisture can be resolved by deflating the tyre when you get home and adding air with a track pump. People have said that when they inspect their tyres after using CO2, they find the sealant sloshing around as normal, so can anyone provide any first hand experience of CO2 causing a problem with sealant?

ugo.santalucia

It's a freeze/melt situation, rather than chemistry. It might well be that it induces the formation of clumps, as well as not. See, latex emulsion is a bit like mayonnaise or milk, if you freeze milk, sometimes it's fine, sometimes it splits

singleton

joe2008 wrote:

I use Clement Strada LGG tubeless tubulars, the best of both worlds, without the drawbacks of tubeless or tubulars.

Never heard of them... But will take a look.

singleton

thecycleclinic wrote:

As I have said tubeless tyres tend not to go flat. If they do loose all the air the tyre does not pop of the rim. If it does with no pressure it means your wheels fall into the class of not being that tubeless compatable and you should not be using tubeless tyres with them.

I have 2 sets of tubeless wheels - at least one is using a Kinlin 31mm deep alloy rim.
If they tyres go flat, they come off the rim - one easier than the other but still happens to both.

joe2008

Singleton wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

I use Clement Strada LGG tubeless tubulars, the best of both worlds, without the drawbacks of tubeless or tubulars.

Never heard of them... But will take a look.

They are expensive, but roll properly unlike similar tubeless tubulars (Tufo)... and they last forever, they just don't cut up, I've worn them down to the threads before I seen cuts.

Winstanleys Bikes have the best deal on them... obviously, you will need a tubular rim to run them.

bobones

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's a freeze/melt situation, rather than chemistry. It might well be that it induces the formation of clumps, as well as not. See, latex emulsion is a bit like mayonnaise or milk, if you freeze milk, sometimes it's fine, sometimes it splits

This is quite interesting on the subject of CO2 with sealant:

http://www.velonews.com/2014/12/bikes-a ... ons_355499

Might just replace sealant with syringe at home after using CO2 for a roadside repair. I carry a Topeak Micro Rocket pump, but I don't like using it unless I'm out of CO2 as it takes far too long to get any decent pressures.

Still waiting on my first tubeless puncture to test out any of these theories!

BTW, Malcolm's video on cycleclinic.co.uk is really worth a watch. Shows how well tubeless tyres seal with even quite large holes and how to install the worms when sealant doesn't work on its own.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news ... ide-repair

cycleclinic

CO2 changes the Ph of the sealant and therefore the latex falls out of solutions. Stans will go watery, zefal and Effetto mariposa both vanish leaving the latex on the inside of the tyre. So yes it runined. Dont use CO2 unless you have to. It will cause the hole to seal quickly at the expense of your sealant. I have found this out the hard way btw.

I think this is how sealants work. they are normally an alkaline solution with ammonia although effetto marioposa is ammonia free. When exposed to air by a puncture the Ph change cause the latex to come out of solution and the particulates in suspension then stick to the latex causing the hole to plug.

How quickly this happens and will depend on how well the sealant works. Different sealants use different particulates or differing size/size range and this is the key to why some are more effective than others.

So it is chemsitry.

cycleclinic

Odd that happens with the kinlins they are normally very good at holding the tyre to the rim. What tyre? If it's an IRC tyre I want to know as the rim tyre combo is not meant to behave that way.

However the tyre has to go flat first. Even with little sealant my tyre seal up at 30 psi. It has to a side wall cut (had that once), a massive hole well three at once, or a damaged rim to get the tyre to loose all air.

joe2008

thecycleclinic wrote:

Odd that happens with the kinlins they are normally very good at holding the tyre to the rim. What tyre? If it's an IRC tyre I want to know as the rim tyre combo is not meant to behave that way.

However the tyre has to go flat first. Even with little sealant my tyre seal up at 30 psi. It has to a side wall cut (had that once), a massive hole well three at once, or a damaged rim to get the tyre to loose all air.

Nice video.

I did a test on an old tyre with a scalpel and Tufo Standard Sealant. I was amazed how big I could make the split before the sealant had a problem. I haven't tested Tufo Extreme yet.