Would you buy a crashed and repaired frame?

meesterbond
meesterbond Posts: 1,240
edited June 2017 in Road buying advice
As above?
Let's say it's an expensive frame, a year or so old, and after a rather innocuous spill the seatstay had developed a bit of a crack. It was professionally fixed by a reputable carbon fibre specialist with warranty on the work and the damage was invisible. The rest of the frame had a full health check and was given a clean bill of health.

Would you be tempted if the price was right and if so, what would the appropriate discount be (if, say the list price was £4,200 for the frameset)?
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Comments

  • bondurant
    bondurant Posts: 858
    It would depend on a number of things for me

    - how desirable the frame is
    - how it has been refinished
    - proof of repair and my perception of the repairer

    If all was well I'd probably take a punt. I wouldn't be paying much for it though (sorry).
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    As is likely some insurance company has paid out on this, or the original purchaser has had a discounted new frame as a crash replacement then the resell cost should reflect that.

    And who will guarantee the integrity of the frame?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    If you go to a reputable repaired then they'll x-ray the frame, both the obviously damaged bits and the rest, so whilst I doubt they'll 'guarantee' the integrity of the frame, you'll have more knowledge about it than any other second half frame out there...

    You're absolutely right though, the price would need to reflect the nature of the transaction.
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    I asked myself a similar question recently. I bought a Scott Foil HMX frameset (first gen), few years, back for the racing season. Rode it the day before the race for about 2hrs to check everything was working OK after the build, and then next day race…….got taken out in a last lap crash. Ended up with a big hole in the downtube along with radial crack at same point. Though it was toast, but had it fixed at Fibrelyte. In meantime I’d got a replacement Scott Addict for a very good price, so continued the season on that while the Foil languished in the garage for over a year. Figured I’d try sell it, but thought realistically I’m not gonna get much for it even though I could prove the frame was virtually brand new prior to the accident. Receipts from original purchase and Fibrelyte, pictures of before n after crash….. reckon I might have got a few hundred quid on what was essentially a £1.5k frameset. Anyway…….I recently swapped kit back over from Addict to the Foil as I was curious to see how it compared. Frame is absolutely fine and nobody would even know it had been repaired unless it was pointed out to them. I now have an Addict HMX frameset languishing in the garage which I’ll probably get re-sprayed at some point and build up again.
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    I think I'm leaning that way too...

    How did you find Fibre-lyte to use for repairs?
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    meesterbond wrote:
    I think I'm leaning that way too...

    How did you find Fibre-lyte to use for repairs?

    I found them OK. Considering the damage, they did a decent job (as far as I can tell). There's plenty of these "plastic surgeons", knocking about now (Re-Carb, Target to name a couple).

    The re-spray was acceptable, and as I say- you'd be hard pushed to find the damaged area. Ideally, I was going to have the whole frame re-sprayed by a stand-alone custom painter, but their lead times were ridiculous....so I didn't bother (for now).
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,248
    well, if the guy spent money to fix it, he won't sell it for 500 quid, will he?... on the other hand 700 quid get you a Canondale CAAD 12 frameset, which is probably all the bike you will ever need... with warranty and what not.

    I frankly don't see the point, unless the price is really rock bottom
    left the forum March 2023
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    Depends who fixed it. If Fibrelyte or CBR, then yes, given a sufficient discount. Used frames are roughly 50% of list, so used & repaired I suppose 25% of list price (75% discount). Only worth it for a seriously good frame, and only if the damage wasn't too extensive - not because of any risk from the repair, good repairers are better than that - but because an extensive repair may affect the ride characteristics. They can fix it, and the repair will be stronger than the original, but they can't necessarily replicate sophisticated layup. If it was just a cracked seatstay on an aero frame (i.e. not a frame that relies on seatstay flexion for comfort as a major USP) then I'd be relaxed.
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    Why do I get the feeling the OP is the one with the frame to sell ... and trying to be cute about a 'how much is it worth' type thread ...
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    type:epyt wrote:
    Why do I get the feeling the OP is the one with the frame to sell ... and trying to be cute about a 'how much is it worth' type thread ...

    Sort of...

    Actually, I've got a crash damaged Parlee ESX that I'm debating what to do with... A totally innocuous rear-ending in a race the other week - got the bike home and noticed that the right seat stay was cracked about 50% of the way round. Must been hit directly by something solid on the other bike or in the fall as the rest of the bike didn't have a mark on it.

    Anyway, as mentioned, list price on the frame was £4,200 and the insurance co have agreed to cover that in full so I'll be replacing it anyway (although that's another thread). I'm trying to decide whether to just write it off or spend the £xx (I'm guess £4-500?) to get the seatstay fixed and refinished and if I did, get an idea of what it might be worth.

    Assuming it isn't prohibitively expensive to repair, then it's probably worth keeping and building up again at a later date...
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    meesterbond wrote:
    type:epyt wrote:
    Why do I get the feeling the OP is the one with the frame to sell ... and trying to be cute about a 'how much is it worth' type thread ...

    Sort of...

    Actually, I've got a crash damaged Parlee ESX that I'm debating what to do with... A totally innocuous rear-ending in a race the other week - got the bike home and noticed that the right seat stay was cracked about 50% of the way round. Must been hit directly by something solid on the other bike or in the fall as the rest of the bike didn't have a mark on it.

    Anyway, as mentioned, list price on the frame was £4,200 and the insurance co have agreed to cover that in full so I'll be replacing it anyway (although that's another thread). I'm trying to decide whether to just write it off or spend the £xx (I'm guess £4-500?) to get the seatstay fixed and refinished and if I did, get an idea of what it might be worth.

    Assuming it isn't prohibitively expensive to repair, then it's probably worth keeping and building up again at a later date...

    I wouldn't anticipate the repair would cost more than a couple of hundred quid. Seat stays seem to be a common repair. My downtube (inc respray), cost £200 at Fibrelyte. Might as well get a few quotes from the aforementioned places (and others). Silly to "write it off". Get it fixed and keep as a spare incase it happens again :wink:

    (Incidentally, who are you insured with that covers race damage to a £4,200 frameset??)
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Ultimately, you have to decide what it is worth to you to keep it as a spare if you can't sell - presumably you'll continue to race on the new frame and so might find yourself in another situation where you need a spare?

    If that figure is less than the repair cost, write it off and bin it.

    If not, once repaired, you can list it for that nominal value plus x, see if anyone else bites. If they don't, you still have a spare...

    Frankly I find the idea of racing (presumably as an amateur?) with a £4200 frame absolutely mind boggling. Insuring that against race damage surely must have cost a similarly incredible sum?
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    OK. Get it fixed, use the repaired frame for racing and the replacement for training. I can understand using an expensive frame in a serious road race, but if this was a crit then I agree with others that you're nuts (and well-insured). Seat stay repair on an ESX will be fine - but I'd check if Parlee will do it themselves before you use anyone else.
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    964Cup wrote:
    OK. Get it fixed, use the repaired frame for racing and the replacement for training. I can understand using an expensive frame in a serious road race, but if this was a crit then I agree with others that you're nuts (and well-insured). Seat stay repair on an ESX will be fine - but I'd check if Parlee will do it themselves before you use anyone else.

    Good point. I've got a Parlee Z5 also, and that has lifetime warranty. Not sure how warranties stand with repairs, so maybe worth checking with Parlee first...
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    It was a triathlon rather than a road race / crit so in theory at least, it should have been non-draft... unfortunately it was also non-talent and non-competent from a bike handling perspective! Coming down a 50km/h hill someone decided to veer right across my line leaving me (and the guy rather too close behind me) nowhere to go but down in a bit of a heap.

    I'd usually have used the TT bike but as the course was narrow and twisty I figured a road bike wouldn't be any slower.

    Oddly enough, the house insurance covers damage in amateur bike races - I'd assumed that they'd tell me where to go but have agreed to cover the cost of a replacement frame.

    Good point on Parlee though - I'll drop them a note and see what they recommend.
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    See, if you'd followed rule #42 you'd have been fine. The rules are there for a reason, you know.
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    Fair comment... although the bike bit was definitely the only part which I could claim to have raced... the swim was purely survival and the run was purgatory.

    Next time I'll know to take the old clunker for any triathlons and save the best bike for less risky riding, like commuting through central London, 4th Cat crits and slopestyle...
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    Lets see the gory pics of aforementioned seat stay anyway...?

    I maybe wouldn't be surprised if Parlee offer to cut you a deal on having the thing repaired by them, although postage to and from USA likely to be $$$. I guess that way they could honor the warranty without issue?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,248
    The thing is... this is called "road buying advice", not "road selling advice"... for that there is a different section, which is called "classifieds"... where you flog your shoot and see what people are prepared to pay. I don't see any point whatsoever in this thread, other than advertising the fact that you have a crashed frame to flog.
    left the forum March 2023
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The thing is... this is called "road buying advice", not "road selling advice"... for that there is a different section, which is called "classifieds"... where you flog your shoot and see what people are prepared to pay. I don't see any point whatsoever in this thread, other than advertising the fact that you have a crashed frame to flog.

    Fair comment... now, what size is it?
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The thing is... this is called "road buying advice", not "road selling advice"... for that there is a different section, which is called "classifieds"... where you flog your shoot and see what people are prepared to pay. I don't see any point whatsoever in this thread, other than advertising the fact that you have a crashed frame to flog.


    I disagree. It's been really rather helpful...
    I now have the names of a couple of potential repairers and the suggestion to contact Parlee which I overlooked in the haste to get it sorted. We've also had a bit of a debate around what the going rate for a repaired frame would be, a little bit of banter about the merits of triathlon and at the end of it, I'm not even trying to sell anything.
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    I think at worst, the thread probably belongs in General Discussion...
  • londoncommuter
    londoncommuter Posts: 1,550
    Might be a daft question but why don't you keep the repaired frame and pocket the insurance money?

    As kind of agreed by everybody, the repaired frame will be worth much more to you than it's likely sale price as you'd be comfortable with how little damage it's actually had.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,248
    meesterbond wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The thing is... this is called "road buying advice", not "road selling advice"... for that there is a different section, which is called "classifieds"... where you flog your shoot and see what people are prepared to pay. I don't see any point whatsoever in this thread, other than advertising the fact that you have a crashed frame to flog.


    I disagree. It's been really rather helpful...
    I now have the names of a couple of potential repairers and the suggestion to contact Parlee which I overlooked in the haste to get it sorted. We've also had a bit of a debate around what the going rate for a repaired frame would be, a little bit of banter about the merits of triathlon and at the end of it, I'm not even trying to sell anything.

    It doesn't matter whether you agree or not... there is a set of rules and threads like "how much is worth" are not permitted. This is in essence a masked thread. It is all the morew annoying that you tried to disguise it as if you wanted to buy a frame that had been fixed, whereas the reality is that you crashed a frame and no repair has been done yet.

    Just be honest from the onset... don't be a May :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • bondurant
    bondurant Posts: 858
    I assumed that the OP was the owner of said frame from his first post, I don't think he tried to disguise anything.
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    Paolo, calmati. He's learned that triathlon is anathema. This is a good and worthwhile thing.
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    The frame is only worth anything to the OP, or the cost of repair to anyone else ... ie. it has no real value, just what anyone is willing to spend to fix it ...

    Given that he got a payout for full frame value from the insurance, trying to make anything on this (other than fixing the frame for himself and pocketing the insurance change) is just opportunistic shysterism ... But given how this thread started, I'd say that's his game ...
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,248
    964Cup wrote:
    Paolo, calmati. He's learned that triathlon is anathema. This is a good and worthwhile thing.

    Hai ragione!
    left the forum March 2023
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    type:epyt wrote:
    The frame is only worth anything to the OP, or the cost of repair to anyone else ... ie. it has no real value, just what anyone is willing to spend to fix it ...

    Given that he got a payout for full frame value from the insurance, trying to make anything on this (other than fixing the frame for himself and pocketing the insurance change) is just opportunistic shysterism ... But given how this thread started, I'd say that's his game ...

    :lol::lol::lol:
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    You were unlucky to have that happen in a triathlon. Very rare.

    But yeah as the others have said - the bikes only worth anything to you. If you're not riding it - what are you worried about ?

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