Tower Block Fire

Frank Wilson

Pardon my scepticism on this but if my house burnt down would I get 5K from the government?

I feel sure there will be a number of house fires around the UK today whereby the homeowners will receive no publicity, no help and no money and could well be left in a similar position to the flat dwellers but they will be left to fend for themselves.

Sometimes I find this whole culture of raising money for this type of thing quite disturbing / obnoxious.

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

fat daddy

Frank Wilson wrote:

Pardon my scepticism on this but if my house burnt down would I get 5K from the government?.

you would probably get fined from the government for making a mess on the street on a non-collection day

rick_chasey

Frank Wilson wrote:

Pardon my scepticism on this but if my house burnt down would I get 5K from the government?

I feel sure there will be a number of house fires around the UK today whereby the homeowners will receive no publicity, no help and no money and could well be left in a similar position to the flat dwellers but they will be left to fend for themselves.

Sometimes I find this whole culture of raising money for this type of thing quite disturbing / obnoxious.

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

I think it was given in the context of the repeated warnings the tenants made to their MPs and anyone who was listening that their safety was at risk. It was particularly unusual, and a huge number died.

Also, for the final point, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Should relatives of victims of terrorism not receive money? I don't understand.

dinyull

Frank Wilson wrote:

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

I have no idea how much was raised/each family received....but I'd imagine most of that money would have been used for funerals (which don't come cheap, time off work etc.

People in this fine have lost EVERYTHING. Most probably uninsured too (not sure of the arrangement needed under council housing). Would you be able to refurnish your house, top to bottom for £5,500 and still maintain the level afforded before the event?

verylonglegs

Frank Wilson wrote:

Pardon my scepticism on this but if my house burnt down would I get 5K from the government?

I feel sure there will be a number of house fires around the UK today whereby the homeowners will receive no publicity, no help and no money and could well be left in a similar position to the flat dwellers but they will be left to fend for themselves.

Sometimes I find this whole culture of raising money for this type of thing quite disturbing / obnoxious.

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

They didn't own the tower block so weren't responsible for it's maintenance, it's not the same situation as someones 4 bed detached burning where they have more responsiblity for it's condition.

Frank Wilson

Dinyull wrote:

Frank Wilson wrote:

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

I have no idea how much was raised/each family received....but I'd imagine most of that money would have been used for funerals (which don't come cheap, time off work etc.

People in this fine have lost EVERYTHING. Most probably uninsured too (not sure of the arrangement needed under council housing). Would you be able to refurnish your house, top to bottom for £5,500 and still maintain the level afforded before the event?

Well over six million pounds, even at 10k per funeral per victim, 22, that leaves late 5 million pounds.


I live in an apartment block and like most responsible people I pay to insure my section of the dwelling and my contents.

dinyull

Frank Wilson wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Frank Wilson wrote:

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

I have no idea how much was raised/each family received....but I'd imagine most of that money would have been used for funerals (which don't come cheap, time off work etc.

People in this fine have lost EVERYTHING. Most probably uninsured too (not sure of the arrangement needed under council housing). Would you be able to refurnish your house, top to bottom for £5,500 and still maintain the level afforded before the event?

Well over six million pounds, even at 10k per funeral per victim, 22, that leaves late 5 million pounds.


I live in an apartment block and like most responsible people I pay to insure my section of the dwelling and my contents.

I take your point re. £6m....didn't realise it was that much. But also don't know if that is evenly distributed between the 22 or if the remainder goes to a charity?

Would you have all of the paperwork to hand if your apartment was totally destroyed in a fire? To prove what you owned, how much it was worth etc... I think the govt giving out £5k is small fry, when you consider the local council was up over £270m and giving out rebates to the top council tax payers whilst at the same time ignoring genuine concern's about the safety at this (and surrounding) towers.

Would take a heartless b*stard to deny them that £5k imo.

Lookyhere

Frank Wilson wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Frank Wilson wrote:

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

I have no idea how much was raised/each family received....but I'd imagine most of that money would have been used for funerals (which don't come cheap, time off work etc.

People in this fine have lost EVERYTHING. Most probably uninsured too (not sure of the arrangement needed under council housing). Would you be able to refurnish your house, top to bottom for £5,500 and still maintain the level afforded before the event?

Well over six million pounds, even at 10k per funeral per victim, 22, that leaves late 5 million pounds.


I live in an apartment block and like most responsible people I pay to insure my section of the dwelling and my contents.

What difference does it make to you?

Unbelievable attitude, i sincerely hope that if you are ever a victim of a criminal assault, you do not seek to gain compensation from the Criminal injuries board :roll:

Bobbinogs

I am finding it hard to work out the logic for giving out sums to people and also having a minute of silence. Loads and loads of money gathered for the 22 and a minute of silence. The next day, 5 women were killed in a tragic car accident, nothing. A week or so later (or perhaps earlier), the bridge thing, not so much money generated there (there were a lot of foreigners though, or something like that). Fire in London, happens a lot but this one killed 79, absolute tragedy so that gets a lot of money raised and a minute of silence. Recent Welsh nutter runs over some muslims, doesn't seem to be a lot of outrage about that for some reason, can't see them getting any money or a minute of silence.

Seems to be a bit random, or driven by social media, or perhaps something else?

FocusZing

FocusZing wrote:

Andy Murray on Monday pledged his winnings at this year’s Aegon Championships at Queen’s Club – which will be more than £346,000 if he wins his sixth title on Sunday – to the families of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ell-appeal

A big gesture, from the multiple Grand Slam winner.

Ummmm!

mamba80

Frank Wilson wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Frank Wilson wrote:

Look at how much has been raised for the relatives of the Manchester bomb blast, they all of a sudden become quite well off but I don't see how money substitutes the loss of one of your kids.

I have no idea how much was raised/each family received....but I'd imagine most of that money would have been used for funerals (which don't come cheap, time off work etc.

People in this fine have lost EVERYTHING. Most probably uninsured too (not sure of the arrangement needed under council housing). Would you be able to refurnish your house, top to bottom for £5,500 and still maintain the level afforded before the event?

Well over six million pounds, even at 10k per funeral per victim, 22, that leaves late 5 million pounds.

Frank, get real, people dont get over the death of their child! do you think they are looking at the pic of their 14yo dead daughter and thinking "thank xxxx for that, i can pay off my mortgage" ?

the only person i know whose son died (murdered) was off work for almost a year, the mum had a break down and lost her job, some 12 years later, they have finally got their lives back on track.

Any money they got, was totally meaningless.

joe2008

FocusZing wrote:

FocusZing wrote:

Andy Murray on Monday pledged his winnings at this year’s Aegon Championships at Queen’s Club – which will be more than £346,000 if he wins his sixth title on Sunday – to the families of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ell-appeal

A big gesture, from the multiple Grand Slam winner.

Ummmm!

Knocked out in the first round to world's number 90

chris_bass

joe2008 wrote:

FocusZing wrote:

FocusZing wrote:

Andy Murray on Monday pledged his winnings at this year’s Aegon Championships at Queen’s Club – which will be more than £346,000 if he wins his sixth title on Sunday – to the families of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ell-appeal

A big gesture, from the multiple Grand Slam winner.

Ummmm!

Knocked out in the first round to world's number 90

In his defence he can't have known that was going to happen and he has donated a lot of his winnings to various causes in the past

FocusZing

Yes, definitely. Wish him better luck for Wimbledon. He did great getting golds in 2012 and Rio for his country too.

dinyull

There are some horrible, horrible c*nts in this world.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/21/rehousing-of-grenfell-tower-families-in-luxury-block-meets-mixed-response

bobmcstuff

Dinyull wrote:

There are some horrible, horrible c*nts in this world.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/21/rehousing-of-grenfell-tower-families-in-luxury-block-meets-mixed-response

"It seems as though a lot of flats there were sublet. Now the people whose names are on the tenancies will get rehoused here, and then they’ll rent the flats out on the private market. And the people who were actually living unofficially in the tower at the time of the fire won’t get rehoused."

Possibly a legitimate concern if true - since the real victims wouldn't get anything out of it - and if a lot of the Grenfell flats were unofficially sublet, it must make identifying some of the dead nigh on impossible.

TheBigBean

bobmcstuff wrote:

Possibly a legitimate concern if true - since the real victims wouldn't get anything out of it - and if a lot of the Grenfell flats were unofficially sublet, it must make identifying some of the dead nigh on impossible.

I was wondering whether such people would be caught out when questioned a bit on the subject, but presumably they will just say that they were away for a few nights etc. etc. Meanwhile their tenants will either be dead or in a pretty bad way.

dinyull

TheBigBean wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Possibly a legitimate concern if true - since the real victims wouldn't get anything out of it - and if a lot of the Grenfell flats were unofficially sublet, it must make identifying some of the dead nigh on impossible.

I was wondering whether such people would be caught out when questioned a bit on the subject, but presumably they will just say that they were away for a few nights etc. etc. Meanwhile their tenants will either be dead or in a pretty bad way.

You'd think there would be a way to easily investigate if they have been at another address recently - bills etc.

But, whilst I agree there may be a few "chancers", you can't penalise the many to weed out the few......especially to avoid house prices falling for a few c*nts.

Frank Wilson

I find calling people who have worked hard all their lives and strove for somewhere nice to live "c-nts" rather off-putting.

I have seen the "poor" (with their I-phone 7s and their full Sky package and all the latest for the kids) down the bookies most days and the pub most nights complaining about the bankers. (Sorry forgot the tattoos)

Let us not forget there are a great deal of people who are intentionally poor in this country, either by working the system and hiding what they have or by being too idle to work and expecting hand-outs from the taxes of the very people they decry.

Before anybody comes back with how heartless I am and misconceptions about being born with a silver spoon in my mouth let me put that to bed

Last of five children, dad dies early leaving my mother to bring up the five kids, no social, she worked three jobs and let rooms in our semi whilst we slept in the garage. Mother paid last twenty years of mortgage whilst bringing up the kids on her own (no mortgage protection back then)

However it was that upbringing and witnessing someone (my mother) working her butt off to achieve something for herself and her family that instilled the same work and don't buy until you can afford ethic in myself and consequently with the exception of a mortgage I have never borrowed a penny in my life and have done without until I had cash available.

I personally feel that there are times when too much sympathy is given to the "poor"

TheBigBean

Frank are you asserting that there is no such thing as poor (iPhones, Sky, drinking, betting, etc.) whilst simultaneously detailing that you were once poor? Does that mean the concept of poverty used to exist, but it is now something that only exists in the cyber world?

dinyull

Frank Wilson wrote:

I find calling people who have worked hard all their lives and strove for somewhere nice to live "c-nts" rather off-putting.

It has sweet f*ck all to do with striving for somewhere nice to live. Absolutely sweet f*ck all.

More that some folk are more bothered about their house value over putting a roof over the heads of people who are homeless thanks to a terrible event.

I won't respond the the rest of you bollox.

bobmcstuff

Frank Wilson wrote:

I find calling people who have worked hard all their lives and strove for somewhere nice to live "c-nts" rather off-putting.

I have seen the "poor" (with their I-phone 7s and their full Sky package and all the latest for the kids) down the bookies most days and the pub most nights complaining about the bankers. (Sorry forgot the tattoos)

Let us not forget there are a great deal of people who are intentionally poor in this country, either by working the system and hiding what they have or by being too idle to work and expecting hand-outs from the taxes of the very people they decry.

Before anybody comes back with how heartless I am and misconceptions about being born with a silver spoon in my mouth let me put that to bed

Last of five children, dad dies early leaving my mother to bring up the five kids, no social, she worked three jobs and let rooms in our semi whilst we slept in the garage. Mother paid last twenty years of mortgage whilst bringing up the kids on her own (no mortgage protection back then)

However it was that upbringing and witnessing someone (my mother) working her butt off to achieve something for herself and her family that instilled the same work and don't buy until you can afford ethic in myself and consequently with the exception of a mortgage I have never borrowed a penny in my life and have done without until I had cash available.

I personally feel that there are times when too much sympathy is given to the "poor"

Way to apply sweeping generalisations.

anecdote =/= proof of anything.

bobmcstuff

TheBigBean wrote:

Frank are you asserting that there is no such thing as poor (iPhones, Sky, drinking, betting, etc.) whilst simultaneously detailing that you were once poor? Does that mean the concept of poverty used to exist, but it is now something that only exists in the cyber world?

Additionally those chav stereotypes seem to apply to mainly white British poor people, whereas a large number of the Grenfell residents appear to be asylum seekers or immigrants (who overwhelmingly come here to work).

kingstongraham

Frank Wilson wrote:

Last of five children, dad dies early leaving my mother to bring up the five kids, no social, she worked three jobs and let rooms in our semi whilst we slept in the garage. Mother paid last twenty years of mortgage whilst bringing up the kids on her own (no mortgage protection back then)

So presumably, you would think it better if this were no longer necessary in the same situation?

webboo

Frank Wilson wrote:

she worked three jobs and let rooms in our semi whilst we slept in the garage.

I personally feel that there are times when too much sympathy is given to the "poor"

I see the child abuse by neglect has done wonders for your compassion and the understanding of others.

bompington

Frank Wilson wrote:

Last of five children, dad dies early leaving my mother to bring up the five kids, no social, she worked three jobs and let rooms in our semi whilst we slept in the garage. Mother paid last twenty years of mortgage whilst bringing up the kids on her own (no mortgage protection back then)

You were looky. 'ome to oos were...

tangled_metal

Immigrants like the undergraduate on a civil engineering course. Don't know what you southerners call them but up north they're foreign students!

Seriously, the residents were a right mixture I read. Some immigrants were Europeans with half decent jobs. Up here they'd afford a house on their incomes I reckon. But that's London and big city cost of living for you.

BTW Frank's crass post has some element of half truth there. Up here I can walk out of my office and bump into any number of poor working class who seem to have a better lifestyle than I do. Latest I phone check, full sky package check, minimum wage a bit over plus their household turns down work because it'll lower their in work benefits check. Dropping £100+ on a Saturday night out check. Fags check. They don't own their own house in some cases but not all.

Tl:dr.
My colleagues have more expensive cars, holidays, nights out more frequently with more money spent despite earning a bit less. They all have sky, good phones, most smoke a lot and there's a lot of in work benefits claimed too. They don't own houses though. Two generations back they would be considered well off with the equivalent lifestyle.

P.S. Residents were a mixture of immigrants , immigrants with good jobs or are students and ppl you would class as poor.

surrey_commuter

I really think this is Fake News. Surely the Council/Govt are not buying 68 flats for £2-3m and giving them to the tenants. Surely far more likely that they have bought up the social/affordable aspect of the development and are letting them on a usual basis to the victims.

I may be totally wrong

dinyull

Depends if the social/affordable was actually built?

Developers can opt out of social/affordable IF they pay into the local council's levy for affordable. Certainly that is the way up here in the north east.

*EDIT: Forget that, 120 affordable flats were built after a quick googling.

Jez mon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I really think this is Fake News. Surely the Council/Govt are not buying 68 flats for £2-3m and giving them to the tenants. Surely far more likely that they have bought up the social/affordable aspect of the development and are letting them on a usual basis to the victims.

I may be totally wrong

Either way, reporting using pictures of the luxury flats, and listing all the features e.g. 24 hr concierge, before stating that the council are purchasing the affordable flats, which don't have any of those features, and don't look like those pictures is totally misleading.