Any advice on cornering?

Yuwego

I'm still fairly new to road cycling and I feel like I'm understanding most things easily. I started clips and caught on almost immediately. My BIGGEST downfall, by far, has to be cornering. For some reason, my mind understands the concept of an apex, but my body just doesn't go with it. How did you learn to corner? Through pure practice, or was it some other method? Thanks in advance!

reformedfatty

Rule 1 : look where you want to go

if you follow rule 1, the rest of your body will do the work, but some tips to help it do that -

weight on the inside hand and outside pedal, with outside pedal down (ie turning left = weight on left hand and right pedal)

relax as much as possible - if you ride with your arms tensed it inhibits the natural movement of the steering that occurs as the rest of your body directs the bike. probably poorly explained

And if you want to break your mind, google counter-steering, but only if you want to make something you do naturally really difficult by overthinking it.

rick_chasey

Yeah, stamp/press as hard as you can on the outside pedal - will feel like you're cornering on rails.

Else - look where you want to go, and job's a good'un.

meanredspider

reformedfatty wrote:

Rule 1 : look where you want to go

Read the OP and wondered how to respond but this is great advice and applies to nearly all dynamic sports. Your body is brilliant at getting on with the job if your mind sets the objective. Keep your head up.

Build speed gently and it will all fall into place.

davebradswmb

reformedfatty wrote:

Rule 1 : look where you want to go

I found that when I aim for the apex my head is somewhere near it, but that means my wheels are missing it by quite a bit. I have been concentrating on improving it over the past few months by looking more at where I want my wheels to go and it does seem to have got a bit better, but I am still not where I want to be.

joey54321

Bend the outside elbow, push the inside hand.

Always in the drops if doing serious cornering.

All the weight should be on the outside leg with the pedal at 6 o'clock.

Keep your head level/looking forward, don't tilt it with the bike.

Do most of the braking before the corner (while in a straight line), though I normally do a little speed adjustment in the corner too.


If you want a practical demonstration, pop the front wheel out and spin it on its axle in your hands. If you try and 'turn' the wheel it will 'fall over' to the outside (i.e. turn the axle to the left and the wheel will kick over to the right). However, if you lean the axle over to the left the wheel does what you would expect. You need to lean the bike in to corners, not steer it.

rick_chasey

Must say, all this 'pushing inside hand in' is new to me.

Never heard that before.

Alex99

joey54321 wrote:

Bend the outside elbow, push the inside hand.

Always in the drops if doing serious cornering.

All the weight should be on the outside leg with the pedal at 6 o'clock.

Keep your head level/looking forward, don't tilt it with the bike.

Do most of the braking before the corner (while in a straight line), though I normally do a little speed adjustment in the corner too.


If you want a practical demonstration, pop the front wheel out and spin it on its axle in your hands. If you try and 'turn' the wheel it will 'fall over' to the outside (i.e. turn the axle to the left and the wheel will kick over to the right). However, if you lean the axle over to the left the wheel does what you would expect. You need to lean the bike in to corners, not steer it.

"Bend the outside elbow,..."

This. Tilts the bike into the bend a little. Makes a big difference, like the bike 'wants' to turn.

chrisaonabike

joey54321 wrote:

Always in the drops if doing serious cornering.

^^^

Very much this. When I started four years ago, it took me a while to get used to getting down into the drops for corners, and I was very tentative.

Now I always corner in the drops, it feels much more secure... I tried it on the hoods recently just for the comparison and it felt very unstable and weird.

meanredspider

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

joey54321 wrote:

Always in the drops if doing serious cornering.

^^^

Very much this. When I started four years ago, it took me a while to get used to getting down into the drops for corners, and I was very tentative.

Now I always corner in the drops, it feels much more secure... I tried it on the hoods recently just for the comparison and it felt very unstable and weird.

Gets weight low and over the front wheel - improves front end traction.

sungod

Yuwego wrote:

I'm still fairly new to road cycling and I feel like I'm understanding most things easily. I started clips and caught on almost immediately. My BIGGEST downfall, by far, has to be cornering. For some reason, my mind understands the concept of an apex, but my body just doesn't go with it. How did you learn to corner? Through pure practice, or was it some other method? Thanks in advance!

much sensible advice above, you mention the apex, don't worry about looking for the apex, it's overrated

on a bike on roads with traffic and other stuff you need to take a line that will get you around given what you can see ahead, which includes watching out for gravel, dirt and other grip-stealing debris that can be found on corners and that you really don't want to ride over when cornering hard

once you can see the exit from the corner and your path through, then you can consider the niceties of where the racing line is

this is good on the subject...

http://www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/descend.htm

...there's a diagram there which highlights the effect of aiming at the 'apex' before you see the exit...

http://www.flammerouge.je/images/factsh ... ematic.pdf

meanredspider

^^^ good advice on the apex. The safest line is to turn in "late" - it doesn't lead you to doing a "wall of death" to avoid the opposite hedge/ditch/bus.

Matthewfalle

Counter-steer

meanredspider

Matthewfalle wrote:

Counter-steer

Sloppy's hacked your account :shock:

You've even been agreeing on sloping top-tubes :shock:

fudgey

Counter steering takes a bit of getting used to but works, as does dropping the inside shoulder.

Brake before the bends, as applying the brakes mid bend will want to stand the bike up and make you go straight.

You want as straight a line as possible through the bend so try to break it down into sections.

And remember: slow in - fast out. Fast in - never out.

graeme_s-2

You don't need to consciously counter steer on a pushbike. If you can ride a bike without stabilisers then you're already doing it.

davesnothere

sungod wrote:

this is good on the subject...

http://www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/descend.htm

...there's a diagram there which highlights the effect of aiming at the 'apex' before you see the exit...

http://www.flammerouge.je/images/factsh ... ematic.pdf

That is excellent, worth a read for a noob like me

Matthewfalle

meanredspider wrote:

You've even been agreeing on sloping top-tubes :shock:

Incredulity!

Never!

meanredspider

Matthewfalle wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

You've even been agreeing on sloping top-tubes :shock:

Incredulity!

Never!

Fraid so. Soon you'll be best buddies.

Yuwego

I just want to take the time to thank everyone for their advice! I thoroughly enjoy cycling but I don't enjoy crashing, that much. I've messed up a couple of my corners but, now with all of this advice, I've learned why and how I ended up laying on my side! I've also learned more about ascending and descending and I think that is great. Thanks again!

Yuwego

sungod wrote:

Yuwego wrote:

I'm still fairly new to road cycling and I feel like I'm understanding most things easily. I started clips and caught on almost immediately. My BIGGEST downfall, by far, has to be cornering. For some reason, my mind understands the concept of an apex, but my body just doesn't go with it. How did you learn to corner? Through pure practice, or was it some other method? Thanks in advance!

once you can see the exit from the corner and your path through, then you can consider the niceties of where the racing line is

this is good on the subject...

http://www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/descend.htm

...there's a diagram there which highlights the effect of aiming at the 'apex' before you see the exit...

http://www.flammerouge.je/images/factsh ... ematic.pdf

THIS. The article plus the diagram really helped! Have you got any more useful links? I enjoyed them.

slowmart

There are some great tips and advice as well as some questionable comments about counter steering and apex's as that really is bollox within the context of riding a bicycle. You can also use the vanishing point technique to access the severity of the corner on your approach as once you become competent at this you will enable you to carry more speed into and out of the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l4puJm66fk

In addition you need to be aware of the road conditions, camber, road furniture, and other hazards such as junctions or other road users.

shimanobottombracket

Fundamentally I just steer and lean left when I want to go left. I lean and steer unleft when I want to go not left. The amount I lean and the amount I steer will vary massively based on my speed and angle of corner. It's easy enough to figure out, just need practice.

jgsi

Out on the road I wouldnt even think of cornering techniques like apexes etc etc.
It all comes down to riding experience and then some and then sometimes you get it all wrong.
My tips would be to ride relaxed and dont exceed your abilities.
If you have opportunity to ride fast on a closed circuit as in the picture then do so. It can build up confidence quickly.
Many moons ago I attended Mick Boddices race school at Darley on a lumbering Firestorm which I managed to haul around on the apexes, get my knee down for the first time and wrench the bloody thing up again.

Not quite the same thing on a Caad10 but still fun when you get it right.

meanredspider

JGSI wrote:

Out on the road I wouldnt even think of cornering techniques like apexes etc

Understand why you say that but some of the same things apply - especially on country roads: wide (as possible) entry for best visibility (both for you and on-coming traffic) and a late turn-in (which, inevitably, leads to a late "apex" - I don't think we need to think of "apex" as running the rumble strip or the gutter but just the point at which you're closest to the inside edge of the road.)

ProjectObject

Ignore the apex. That's for race tracks. Often the route from the correct apex of the corner to maintain angle and speed will take you onto the opposite side of the road. Not the place you want to be. Pick a safe line so you exit the corner safely and have some and room for manoeuvre for the inevitable pot hole, grid cover and careless car driver. You don't have to worry about any of these things on the race track. This means you can concentrate on the apex. If you get it wrong there's a generous amount of run off ares. No such luxury on the road. If it goes wrong it's going to hurt and probably be expensive too.

meanredspider

ProjectObject wrote:

Ignore the apex. That's for race tracks. Often the route from the correct apex of the corner to maintain angle and speed will take you onto the opposite side of the road. Not the place you want to be. Pick a safe line so you exit the corner safely and have some and room for manoeuvre for the inevitable pot hole, grid cover and careless car driver. You don't have to worry about any of these things on the race track. This means you can concentrate on the apex. If you get it wrong there's a generous amount of run off ares. No such luxury on the road. If it goes wrong it's going to hurt and probably be expensive too.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of apex or late apex.

shimanobottombracket

JGSI wrote:

Out on the road I wouldnt even think of cornering techniques like apexes etc etc.
It all comes down to riding experience and then some and then sometimes you get it all wrong.
My tips would be to ride relaxed and dont exceed your abilities.
If you have opportunity to ride fast on a closed circuit as in the picture then do so. It can build up confidence quickly.
Many moons ago I attended Mick Boddices race school at Darley on a lumbering Firestorm which I managed to haul around on the apexes, get my knee down for the first time and wrench the bloody thing up again.

Not quite the same thing on a Caad10 but still fun when you get it right.

Video wont play. Do you have a direct link?

ZMC888

The absolute best way to learn how to corner is to learn to ride a motorcycle and then have advanced track instruction at a race school. Once you've learned to lean a motorcycle at 50 degrees or more you can than reapply this to cycles, obviously not to the same extent, but the principal is very similar.

Obviously this advice may be impractical, difficult or expensive to follow, but if I had young wannabe pro rider or was a pro rider in my early career it could be excellent training. Relaxation and confidence feeds back on itself, until you fall, then it has to be rebuilt. That's why building these skills slowly with instructors is the safest, most effective and least painful way.

I've always wanted to attend the Ron Haslam race school, but never had the time or money....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v915G3fL_N0

fat daddy

just ride the bike .... cornering feels tetchy when you first start ... you soon get used to it

kajjal

Practice alot trying different lines and speeds. It will soon become clear what works for you and just as usefully what doesn't. Other peoples lines and speeds on strava can be useful but be a bit careful.