To race or to wait?
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Excellent piece by Innrng
http://inrng.com/2017/06/the-unwritten-rules/Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
2:43 p.m.
Raymond Poulidor, the eternal Tour de France runner-up, was left baffled by the organizers' decision to neutralize the third stage of the race because of a massive crash.
Tour director Christian Prudhomme said the 10-minute interruption of the race on Monday was made to ensure the riders' safety. In Poulidor's opinion, it went against cycling's etiquette.
"Prudhomme said it himself, riders are like wild animals, they don't want to stop after a crash, they want to go for the kill," Poulidor told The Associated Press at the start of Tuesday's stage to Cambrai.
Poulidor, who secured eight podium finishes at the Tour during his career, said the race would have never been stopped in his racing days. At the 1968 Tour, he was involved in a serious crash after a motorbike knocked him over and fell on top of him.
"During my time, when a rider was down he was attacked," Poulidor said. "When I was hit by the motorbike, I was almost dead on the side of the road and my rivals attacked. When I had a puncture, I was attacked, when I stopped for a piss, I was attacked. And that was normal."
From this during the 2015 Tour:
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=35391041"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:2:43 p.m.
Raymond Poulidor, the eternal Tour de France runner-up, was left baffled by the organizers' decision to neutralize the third stage of the race because of a massive crash.
Tour director Christian Prudhomme said the 10-minute interruption of the race on Monday was made to ensure the riders' safety. In Poulidor's opinion, it went against cycling's etiquette.
"Prudhomme said it himself, riders are like wild animals, they don't want to stop after a crash, they want to go for the kill," Poulidor told The Associated Press at the start of Tuesday's stage to Cambrai.
Poulidor, who secured eight podium finishes at the Tour during his career, said the race would have never been stopped in his racing days. At the 1968 Tour, he was involved in a serious crash after a motorbike knocked him over and fell on top of him.
"During my time, when a rider was down he was attacked," Poulidor said. "When I was hit by the motorbike, I was almost dead on the side of the road and my rivals attacked. When I had a puncture, I was attacked, when I stopped for a wee-wee, I was attacked. And that was normal."
From this during the 2015 Tour:
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=35391041
Interesting, though the race was neutralized by organisers, not riders, for safety reasons. I don't really remember it myself.
Of course, Poulidor never won the TdF and only has a single Vuelta to his name. Perhaps this is why? ;-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
It was big crash with a lot of riders injured. Dumoulin broke his collarbone in the white jersey, Cancellara went down in yellow (but quickly got up). It was the crash that Orica had a Go Pro on one of their mechanics - a much watched video.No tA Doctor wrote:
Interesting, though the race was neutralized by organisers, not riders, for safety reasons. I don't really remember it myself.
The problem was that the ambulances were filled up and they couldn't get sufficient medical assistance to the half of the peloton that had kept riding. They weren't asked to wait for riders.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Interesting set of events on Stage 9. Richie Porte holding up the race for Froome to switch bikes, other riders honouring that with the exception of Aru.0
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Have little sympathy for Chris.
He knows no one will wait for Aru when he punctures so it's all good.0 -
Simon Yates not impressed with Aru: http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin ... ove-3407530
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I think a lot of this hating on Aru is having an excuse to hate on Aru.
As referred to earlier, a Dutch journo went around asking riders before stage 8 what they thought of Aru and no one would say anything apart from teammates.
Jos van Emden was a classic "no no no I'm not getting involved in that".
The rest of the teammates just discussed his "professionalism".0 -
So no love for Aru in the peloton? Didn't know that, any particular reason or is it just because he is aligned with the axis of evil (Astana)?Rick Chasey wrote:I think a lot of this hating on Aru is having an excuse to hate on Aru.
As referred to earlier, a Dutch journo went around asking riders before stage 8 what they thought of Aru and no one would say anything apart from teammates.
Jos van Emden was a classic "no no no I'm not getting involved in that".
The rest of the teammates just discussed his "professionalism".0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I think a lot of this hating on Aru is having an excuse to hate on Aru.
As referred to earlier, a Dutch journo went around asking riders before stage 8 what they thought of Aru and no one would say anything apart from teammates.
Jos van Emden was a classic "no no no I'm not getting involved in that".
The rest of the teammates just discussed his "professionalism".
There is a lot of love too, if you know where to look for it.
Along with plenty asking retarded questions like why Froome didn't wait for Porte and Martin, when they crashed.
Anyhow, I think Simon Yates has called it right.
Dirty and disrespectful, but ultimately it's up to the rider what he does in a bike race.
Aru has plenty of time today to answer his non Dutch critics at press calls today."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:Where's the love BS?
CN forum."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
There's a difference between waiting and not attacking.Rick Chasey wrote:Have little sympathy for Chris.
He knows no one will wait for Aru when he punctures so it's all good.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Playing Devil's advocate here, but what if Aru had designated that point on the climb as his preferred place to attack if everything was together? Would it be right to expect him to throw his race plans out of the window?It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
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I think that would be Ok. But his position in the bunch and the actions of his team suggested he wasn't going to. Bardet would have a better case after the work his team had done.Salsiccia1 wrote:Playing Devil's advocate here, but what if Aru had designated that point on the climb as his preferred place to attack if everything was together? Would it be right to expect him to throw his race plans out of the window?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Movistar, and Valverde in particular, have been doing this experiment for a few years now. As far as I can tell they re at a Net Loss. I cant really think of any time they have really benefitted from it - they ve landed a few punches but never a KO - but it has cost them dear on several occasions. That crosswind stage into St.Malo being perhaps the best example.
Riders wait because it benefits them to wait.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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People also like to have a good reputation. A moment of infamy can tarnish a whole career.ddraver wrote:Movistar, and Valverde in particular, have been doing this experiment for a few years now. As far as I can tell they re at a Net Loss. I cant really think of any time they have really benefitted from it - they ve landed a few punches but never a KO - but it has cost them dear on several occasions. That crosswind stage into St.Malo being perhaps the best example.
Riders wait because it benefits them to wait.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
There's a difference between waiting and not attacking.Rick Chasey wrote:Have little sympathy for Chris.
He knows no one will wait for Aru when he punctures so it's all good.
Meh. Seems to happen a lot to Chris.
Just get on with the racing.
Sky should have better kit.
He does seem to have a lot of instances where the racing at the sharp end is neutralised in his favour.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Where's the love BS?
CN forum.
I meant in the peloton :P0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
There's a difference between waiting and not attacking.Rick Chasey wrote:Have little sympathy for Chris.
He knows no one will wait for Aru when he punctures so it's all good.
Meh. Seems to happen a lot to Chris.
Just get on with the racing.
Sky should have better kit.
The peloton judged it. The peloton will remember it. Part of the peloton's judgement is undoubtedly formed by Astana's previous poor form.
Astana won't be getting many favours from anyone for a while. Aru short of a gel or water? Tough. Aru punctures when the peloton is at medium speed? Oh look, it just got faster.
This is what the unwritten rules are about. They are precisely about getting on with the racing. It's just that racing is about far, far more than simply riding a bicycle very fast.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
+1 well said.No tA Doctor wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
There's a difference between waiting and not attacking.Rick Chasey wrote:Have little sympathy for Chris.
He knows no one will wait for Aru when he punctures so it's all good.
Meh. Seems to happen a lot to Chris.
Just get on with the racing.
Sky should have better kit.
The peloton judged it. The peloton will remember it. Part of the peloton's judgement is undoubtedly formed by Astana's previous poor form.
Astana won't be getting many favours from anyone for a while. Aru short of a gel or water? Tough. Aru punctures when the peloton is at medium speed? Oh look, it just got faster.
This is what the unwritten rules are about. They are precisely about getting on with the racing. It's just that racing is about far, far more than simply riding a bicycle very fast.
Take away sportsmanship and respect and nothing is left.
Ask lance.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
I don't disagree.
But I don't get why it upsets riders and fans quite so much.
It's like they don't want interesting racing.0 -
The Cycling Podcast covered this well today.
In my view, Aru's move was ungentlemanly but, so what? It's the last climb of the Queen stage, of course he can attack when a rival's gear fails him. Attacking 60km from the finish when the race isn't on would be wrong. But the leader trying to neutralise the race because he feels like it is just rubbish. He was even fiddling with his computer before chasing back on. What was he doing? Pairing his powermeter or something?
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
Aru can attack. But he must do it with the knowledge that if he persists, then he gives everyone the green light to attack him in similar circumstances for the rest of his career. So is it worth it?ContrelaMontre wrote:The Cycling Podcast covered this well today.
In my view, Aru's move was ungentlemanly but, so what? It's the last climb of the Queen stage, of course he can attack when a rival's gear fails him. Attacking 60km from the finish when the race isn't on would be wrong. But the leader trying to neutralise the race because he feels like it is just rubbish. He was even fiddling with his computer before chasing back on. What was he doing? Pairing his powermeter or something?Twitter: @RichN950 -
LA wrote:To win the TdF you need to "run a marathon, play a game of chess, drive a NASCAR and run for president - if you can't figure one of these things out then you won't win.
Aru didn't do well in the running for president stakes yesterday.0 -
ContrelaMontre wrote:The Cycling Podcast covered this well today.
In my view, Aru's move was ungentlemanly but, so what? It's the last climb of the Queen stage, of course he can attack when a rival's gear fails him. Attacking 60km from the finish when the race isn't on would be wrong. But the leader trying to neutralise the race because he feels like it is just rubbish. He was even fiddling with his computer before chasing back on. What was he doing? Pairing his powermeter or something?
Of course Aru can attack if he likes - nobody has said he can't..
However, I liked the way that the others rode up to him and just sat there.
Did Froome ask for the race to be held whilst he got his bike sorted? Not that I saw - he held up his hand and dropped back to the cars to get things sorted quickly - it's the others that felt they should hold fire.
Froome sorting his bike after the change - of course - he spends most of his time looking at it - I reckon he's watching "Little Princess"
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Rick Chasey wrote:I don't disagree.
But I don't get why it upsets riders and fans quite so much.
It's like they don't want interesting racing.
It doesn't upset me, I'll just be amused when karma comes around to Aru/Astana later.
I'm assuming that it upsets riders because:
1) it increases uncertainty in the peloton - e.g. are piss breaks still sacrosanct? Who can they trust?
2) if they're playing by the rules and someone else isn't, then someone is potentially gaining an advantage at their expense
3) they like to think they're part of something bigger than themselves, this marvellous institution of The Tour /Bike racing. Aru just walked into the temple and shat on the altar
I'm assuming you're immune to most of this type of thinking because you're quite open that it's just entertainment for you - and what you like most about racing are the bits of "pure" racing - the more of them the better, no matter how they come.
Others have an interest in broader aspects of the sport; the heroic narratives, the soap opera. Obviously they get their entertainment/outrage satisfied in other ways.
EDIT: this isn't meant to be critical, but it's a lot of oversimplification, hope I haven't misrepresented/caricatured you.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I don't disagree.
But I don't get why it upsets riders and fans quite so much.
It's like they don't want interesting racing.
It's because they do want interesting racing. Gaining an advantage on someone who hasn't got a bike isn't that interesting.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I don't disagree.
But I don't get why it upsets riders and fans quite so much.
It's like they don't want interesting racing.
I think it upsets "fans" far far more than it upsets riders0 -
r0bh wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I don't disagree.
But I don't get why it upsets riders and fans quite so much.
It's like they don't want interesting racing.
I think it upsets "fans" far far more than it upsets riders
Simon Yates sounded pretty upset about it, and Richie Porte felt strongly enough to tell Aru to knock it off.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
