Why are bike companies telling consumers that disk brakes are maintenance free?

apreading

ugo.santalucia wrote:

apreading wrote:

But doesnt the same apply to 5800? Why did you spend money on them when there was no need, 5700 was good enough?

You silly... it wasn't an upgrade... I did need a pair of rim calipers as I didn't have any... initially I did want 5700 to match the STI, but firstly I could not find them and secondly I read the 5800 were better and same price, so no brainer...

Yet you make it quite clear you appreciate the improvement of the 5800. Yet you refuse to appreciate any improvement from better pads or from disc brakes...

faster97

apreading wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

apreading wrote:

But doesnt the same apply to 5800? Why did you spend money on them when there was no need, 5700 was good enough?

You silly... it wasn't an upgrade... I did need a pair of rim calipers as I didn't have any... initially I did want 5700 to match the STI, but firstly I could not find them and secondly I read the 5800 were better and same price, so no brainer...

Yet you make it quite clear you appreciate the improvement of the 5800. Yet you refuse to appreciate any improvement from better pads or from disc brakes...

I completely understand where Ugo is coming from with this. The difference between 5700 and 5800 calipers is night and day, whilst the difference between Shimano and Swisstop pads is marginal, despite what anyone says.

If you're heavy and riding in traffic at speed in wet conditions, 5700 isn't good enough imo.

apreading

So you are saying that unless you have the very latest and near to or highest model of rim brakes, they arent good enough? Thats not what the rim brake supporters normally say when suggesting that the extra stopping power of discs would be a waste because there is only a tiny bit of rubber on the road anyway.

Anonymous

faster97 wrote:

whilst the difference between Shimano and Swisstop pads is marginal, despite what anyone says.

If you're heavy and riding in traffic at speed in wet conditions, 5700 isn't good enough imo.

So you have actually used Swissstop green or blue then?
If so, did you use them in the 5800?

Marginal lol, that word gets so abused on here.
They are better, and cost £20.

Are my DA Direct Mount calipers 'marginal' too?
They are better, but cost a lot more, so I have never tried to push them on anyone when 5800's and Sissstop pads are around.

No brainer to me. People should try them and then put the Shimanos back in when they wear down.
If they don't notice a difference at that point then they can just stick with the stock ones.
Will have cost them a small difference in cost, and they can make their own mind up on something as important as braking,

Have never really done a comparison (and not going to lol) as I just want the best braking I can reasonably get, and swap the Shimano pads straight out.
I don't ride around on crappy stock tyres, so figure stock pad compounds are equally poo.

I have no problem with UGO's take on it if he is getting through that many pads though (I need to ride more!).
He knows the difference in them and is happy with the Shimano.
I just don't like a company that seems/wants to make better products being accused of being con merchants.

ugo.santalucia

After listening to advice on here, a few years back I bought a pair of Koolstop salmon pads... they were dreadful. They had a curved profile which meant they had to be run far away from the rim to avoid the tip rubbing onto the rim... which in turn meant long lever action and fairly poor contact.
I had to shave off the curved tip and eventually bin them as even then they were pretty useless.

The fully thing is I never felt short of pads with the stock ones, so it was really down to listening to advice I didn't really need.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I have a 1980s bike with original Campagnolo brakes and original 1980s pads... they work really well for their age... I am going to leave them alone until they die

kajjal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHFSSXOSnxs

Gcn compare rim to disc on road bikes.

I had an xc mountain bike with v brakes and a road bike with 105. The mountain bike was fine for many years but the road bike brakes just OK. Then got a mountain bike with Shimano xt hydraulic disc brakes. The difference was very noticeable , more power, more consistency, better feel and less effort to use. Very little maintenance required and pretty much just fit and forget.

This meant when i got a new road bike i went for the 785 shimano hydraulic disc brakes which are based on my mountain bikes xt disc brakes. In this case the difference was huge, much better braking in all weathers and on 25mm tyres i brake alot harder with more control and stop alot faster. The 105 brakes in comparison feel wooden, lack power, take much more effort and i can feel the cables stretching.

Problem with disc brakes so far, bent rotor (was on on bike from new so shop quickly replaced), too much fluid leading to lack of pad clearance (like it from new easily fixed, let excess out), contamination (cleaned with disc brake cleaner, once had to replace pads). Appart from that no problems at all and no need for constant maintenance.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

Have never really done a comparison (and not going to lol) as I just want the best braking I can reasonably get, and swap the Shimano pads straight out.
I don't ride around on crappy stock tyres, so figure stock pad compounds are equally poo.

Tyre manufacturers have a range of products to appeal to different pockets... obviously on a bike designed to meet a given price tag, you get something towards the bottom of the range, which uses a cheaper low TPI carcass and cheaper synthetic rubber, which is hard wearing but has poor grip.

Shimano only do one pad, it's the same for 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace... do you really think they'd fit cheap crap pads on a set of dura ace bakes?

I think you are being a victim of marketing here, believing there is a lot to gain by "upgrading" the pads.

roger_merriman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

After listening to advice on here, a few years back I bought a pair of Koolstop salmon pads... they were dreadful. They had a curved profile which meant they had to be run far away from the rim to avoid the tip rubbing onto the rim... which in turn meant long lever action and fairly poor contact.
I had to shave off the curved tip and eventually bin them as even then they were pretty useless.

The fully thing is I never felt short of pads with the stock ones, so it was really down to listening to advice I didn't really need.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I have a 1980s bike with original Campagnolo brakes and original 1980s pads... they work really well for their age... I am going to leave them alone until they die

Different use case but I use Salmon on the CX bike, since stock and other pads pads simply are terrifying poor, this is Cant's plus a heavy rider, on road at speed down steep slopes is the most worrying since off road tends to be much slower.

But Salmon pads do make a huge difference though the wear rate is horrific!

ZMC888

apreading wrote:

I think the diversity of opinions is down to people's upbringing.

If you have made your way through years of rim brakes, you have got used to them, convinced yourself that they are OK and learned to live with it, without yearning for more.

If you come from mountain bikes though, rim brakes are SCARY and you feel like you are going to die every time you go out.

I couldn't agree less.
I've spent years on mountain bikes with hydraulic brakes and I find 105 5800 rim brakes on my DT Swiss alloy rims to be perfectly good enough in the dry. I can stop on a dime and endo just like my XT brakes. I only miss hydraulic disk brakes in the wet, but I live in a very dry area.

cycleclinic

Kool stop salmon pads are more useful on some rims but not all. Those with narrow brake tracks and those with thin braking surfaces benefit the most because they fit and wear fast.

There is way to much brake hate. Here a thougt remove your brakes they only slow you down anyway.

With my current range of brakes, shimano dura ace 7403 and 7700 campagnolo, veloce, record and super record, miche, gb hindinium, 105 single pivot, shimano rx100, shkmano xtr m985 and m9000 and tektro spyre i can say not one is more faff than the others. I find it difficult to recognise the problems some people are having. My spyres were a pain until i stopped using the tekro rwd pads and switched to ebc. Now they are faultless.

pblakeney

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a 1980s bike with original Campagnolo brakes and original 1980s pads... they work really well for their age... I am going to leave them alone until they die

Original 80s pads? Well, they'll never let you down if you don't ride the bike.
FWIW, my "new" 2015 Campag brakes have better pads than Koolstop, which were better than 2008 Campag pads.

ugo.santalucia

PBlakeney wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a 1980s bike with original Campagnolo brakes and original 1980s pads... they work really well for their age... I am going to leave them alone until they die

Original 80s pads? Well, they'll never let you down if you don't ride the bike.
FWIW, my "new" 2015 Campag brakes have better pads than Koolstop, which were better than 2008 Campag pads.

I changed them a few times, what I mean is that these are NOS Campagnolo pads from the 1980s, not some kind of modern pad.