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Advice on TT bike build

huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
edited May 2017 in Road general
I've just bought (shamefully, on a whim) a bare TT bike - it's a cheap Shark Attack TT Pro frameset from Velochampion complete with Prolite wheelset.

I've never done a TT before but I've been told I might be quite good at it, and on a calm day, on a flat, I can maintain about 25mph for extended periods (not pushing it too much). So I thought a getting TT bike might motviate me into dropping a few more pounds (or stone!) and joining some of the local TT races.

Back to the bike - https://www.velochampion.co.uk/collections/time-trial-2/products/shark-attack-pro-ltd

Breakdown of what's included:

    >ATTACK frame and forks >Hammer Head cockpit >Zero stack aero stem >Aero seat port >Aerodynamic and integrated direct mount brake calipers >Arm rest pads >Arm rest riser kit, inc spacers and all bolts >FSA tapered headset >2 year Warranty >PRO LITE Padova Tubular Disc wheel >PRO LITE Roma 5 Spoke Tubular front wheel


Technical Specification:
    >T700 HD Carbon Frame >T700 HD Fork with tapered carbon steer tube >T700 'Hammer Head' Cockpit (Aero Base bar, Aero Stem, Extensions) >CFD derived frame profiles >Internal Cabling >Di2 / EPS and cable compatible >Aerodynamic and integrated direct mount brake system >Braze on removable front mech (Use with single or oval chainrings) >Rear facing dropouts >BB87 press fit BB, for superior stiffness >Tapered headset for superior handling >Replaceable rear hanger >Room for the latest 25mm high speed wheel/tyre setup


I haven't taken delivery of it yet so there's a few things I need to find out when I get it, and a few things I'd like to ask anyone who had bought a bare TT bike before:

Crankset:
I have a pair of older "winter bikes" knocking about, both with 10 speed Shimano 105 groupsets. So I'm hoping to transplant as many components over from the bikes I don't use anmymore to the new TT bike. I have a slight concern as the cranskets on these are both compact (50/34 I think) but as a beginner, I'm not sure this is going to be to much an issue - maybe when I get faster and stronger I can move up to 53 teeth chainrings etc.

What I do know is that the 105 cranket is a Hollowtech II and the bottom bracket is "BB87 pressfit". I've no idea what I'm meant to do to get my cransket to fit the new bike - do I need to first buy a BB87 bottom bracket that's compatible with Hollowtech II?

Brakes:
Apprantly, the frame has an integrated direct mount brake system - does this mean the brakes are already built into the frame and all I need to to is cable them up and stick pads on them? Or do I need to find a set of brakes for it that will fit?

Rear facing dropouts
What are they, and how much extra hassle are they?

Front Mech
What is a "Braze on removable front mech" - does this just keep the chain in place if running a 1x10 / 1x11 spd setup?

Aero seat port
I'm assuming it won't come with a seat post- is there an industry standard in seat postand what should I be on the lookout for? (or could that be a spelling mistake and it's actually "Aero seat post" - in which case, can I bolt on any old seat?)

Shifters/Levers
Ultimately, when the bank balance allows, I'll kit it out with Di2 (or swap over my current Di2 groupset from my road bike) so I can shift from the aero bars. In the meantime, I'll use whichever 105 STI levers are in better condition. Can these STIs just go on the handlebars (whatever the technical term is for the part that passes for drops on a TT bike)

Wheels
The Prolite Padova is an 11 speed hub. Is it easy enough to dump a 10speed cassette on there with a couple of spacers (and have perfect shifting)

Tyres
I am a total Tub virgin. I can swap out a the tube in a clincher with my eyes shut but tubs seem like some mythical thing that only the elite use (and have a team of mechanics to do the dirty work for them I imagine). How different is using / maintaining / repairing tubs? Do you always need to take along a spare tubular tyre (probably not a concern on an actual TT as th edistance is short and if you get a puncture, it's pretty much game over!) Why can't I use a clincher in a tubular specific wheel (how different are they).


I'm sure I'll have many more questions once I've actually got the bike in my hands, but I'd appreacite some advice in the meantime on what I can expect, and what I should do in terms of configuration etc.
Sensa SL Aquila Di2
Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
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Posts

  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Why wouldn't you just have a go at TTing on your road bike before dropping thousands on the kit ? You may hate it. It's very painful.

    Some answers..

    The bike should come with a seatpost - there no industry standard.
    Brazed on front mech - that means you need a mech thats compatible. Obv no band round the seat post as its not round.
    Tubs - yes you need a spare. No you cant use a tyre. Theres no lip for it to hook into. You'll need to glue it as well.
    Rear facing dropouts are dropouts facing the rear - slightly trickier than normal but no real drama.
    Brakes - dunno - lets see.
    Levers - you'd be better off getting old school gear shifters for the end of the tribars and simple brake levers rather than messing around with STI.
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    cougie wrote:
    Why wouldn't you just have a go at TTing on your road bike before dropping thousands on the kit ? You may hate it. It's very painful.

    Some answers..

    The bike should come with a seatpost - there no industry standard.
    Brazed on front mech - that means you need a mech thats compatible. Obv no band round the seat post as its not round.
    Tubs - yes you need a spare. No you cant use a tyre. Theres no lip for it to hook into. You'll need to glue it as well.
    Rear facing dropouts are dropouts facing the rear - slightly trickier than normal but no real drama.
    Brakes - dunno - lets see.
    Levers - you'd be better off getting old school gear shifters for the end of the tribars and simple brake levers rather than messing around with STI.

    Thanks Cougie

    I've ridden the local TT route a few times on my road bike (unofficial, not timed etc) - I didn't have a tribar fitted, I was just slumped down, forearms resting on the bars, I averaged a little over 22mph over the 10 mile course - not great but I reckon good enough to give it a proper go - and reckoned I could get into it with the proper kit. I've already chucked $$$$$ into various other hobbies and I get a lot of enjoyment when I'm out on two-wheels. And as mentioned, it's more of a motivation to get fitter and start getting a bit competative - I can only do so much on club rides!
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    huskie69 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Brazed on front mech - that means you need a mech thats compatible. Obv no band round the seat post as its not round.

    I think I understand - it has to be bolted onto the frame due to the aero profile - so can I get away with something like this? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-tiagra-4700-2x10sp-braze-on-front-mech/rp-prod151205
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Tubs can be taped on as well. Essentially it's double sided sticky tape that you put on the wheel, then mount tub as you would a normal tyre then remove backing from tape by lifting tub up a few mm and peeling it off.

    Then pump up. Tub is held on by both tape and tyre pressure.

    First one will take you ten mins to get the hang of it, then as quick as a normal tyre and tub.

    Tape makers include Jantex, Continental, to name but a few. About a fiver for a roll of tape to do two wheels.

    If you get a puncture just fill with foam from a can to get you home or put some slime in when first fitting the tub (or even the puncture). I use Vittoria Pit Stop but others are available. Again, a couple of sovs for a can.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    huskie69 wrote:
    huskie69 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Brazed on front mech - that means you need a mech thats compatible. Obv no band round the seat post as its not round.

    I think I understand - it has to be bolted onto the frame due to the aero profile - so can I get away with something like this? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-tiagra-4700-2x10sp-braze-on-front-mech/rp-prod151205

    Exactomondo.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    No re shifters - you'll need specific TT shifters to go into the aero bar ends. You can use STIs as the brakes or get some TT brake levers - dirt cheap from somewhere like planet x
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Nice bike by the way: did you go black or yellow?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Hopefully it will come with a seat post and port is just a typo on their part.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Have a feeling you'll need brakes like the - direct mount.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/uc/e ... &gclsrc=ds
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    Nice bike by the way: did you go black or yellow?

    It's the flouro yellow I've gone for. That way, I'll be forced to keep it clean :D

    Thanks for the tips btw - it looks like I might be better off not bothering with my exisiting "spare" components (it looks like the only thing I could reasonably use would be the derailluer! - and given that's it's a 10sped where modern components are all 11spd, it's more hassle than it's worth).

    So my only problem is what crankset/bottom bracket combination to use. There's so many BBxx numbers flying about these days I've got no idea where to start.
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Is it a threaded b/b? My arms hurt too much to scroll up the screen to look.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Just got Bambina to scroll up the screen - it's a press fit so unfortunately I do not have a scoobies - sorry.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,003
    "BB87" - I don't believe there is any such standard. If it's press fit, then they probably mean BB86, although it's worth checking.
  • Simon MastersonSimon Masterson Posts: 2,740
    I like tubs but I don't think I'd recommend starting with them 'just because'. Once upon a time they may have been the only serious option for a racing tyre, but those days are long gone; if anything some clinchers and tubeless are edging out tubs in RR tests. If you really love tubs, tub tape can make them a bit more practical and less messy, but the RR penalty means that you are (literally) wasting your time.
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    I like tubs but I don't think I'd recommend starting with them 'just because'. Once upon a time they may have been the only serious option for a racing tyre, but those days are long gone; if anything some clinchers and tubeless are edging out tubs in RR tests. If you really love tubs, tub tape can make them a bit more practical and less messy, but the RR penalty means that you are (literally) wasting your time.

    Thanks for this. Unfortunately, the wheelset comes with the bike so tubs (in this instance) are something I'm going to have to get familiar with.

    So RR (rolling road??) tests prove that tubs stuck with tape are actually slower than the equivalent clinchers? Is that due to the weight? What's the weight difference between some tape and an inner tube?

    Also, I thought tubs were "tubeless", is there a 3rd type of tyre?!
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Tubeless is a third type - Tubs are very different to them though.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    huskie69 wrote:
    I like tubs but I don't think I'd recommend starting with them 'just because'. Once upon a time they may have been the only serious option for a racing tyre, but those days are long gone; if anything some clinchers and tubeless are edging out tubs in RR tests. If you really love tubs, tub tape can make them a bit more practical and less messy, but the RR penalty means that you are (literally) wasting your time.

    Thanks for this. Unfortunately, the wheelset comes with the bike so tubs (in this instance) are something I'm going to have to get familiar with.

    So RR (rolling road??) tests prove that tubs stuck with tape are actually slower than the equivalent clinchers? Is that due to the weight? What's the weight difference between some tape and an inner tube?

    Also, I thought tubs were "tubeless", is there a 3rd type of tyre?!

    You're making tubs sound bad - they aren't. Unfortunately isn't really a word I'd use when it come s to this wheel set and tube.

    Any differences will be minuscule, so don't worry about it. Just enjoy the please of tubs - lighter, nicer to ride on, cachet, all round tubness.

    As the saying goes - once you're have a bit of tub there's no going back.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    First thing is to get rid of the front wheel. Not only is it censored , but it doesn't look CTT legal.

    As for tubs, don't worry about a spare as you can ride them flat (and if you puncture your race is over anyway).
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Grill wrote:
    First thing is to get rid of the front wheel. Not only is it censored , but it doesn't look CTT legal.

    As for tubs, don't worry about a spare as you can ride them flat (and if you puncture your race is over anyway).

    Yeah someone in my club did that in a club 25 - punctured with two miles to go but carried on. Destroying an £800 disc wheel on the way....
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Always a risk. I've done 10 miles on a punctured RZR 46 and it was fine, same with my old trispoke on a 12hr TT (which allowed me to get back to support and quickly swap wheels). You can always run sealant if you're unsure.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    Grill wrote:
    First thing is to get rid of the front wheel. Not only is it censored , but it doesn't look CTT legal.

    Is that from first hand experience?

    Also - CTT regs:
    https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/articles/view/11
    (f) Disc wheels or spoked wheels fitted with covers may be used only on the rear of a machine.

    (g) Deep section rims, tri-spoke and wheels of a similar design may be used. The front wheel must have at least 45% of the surface area open.

    So I think I'm good with the front - visually, it looks like at least 45% of the surface area is open
    Grill wrote:
    As for tubs, don't worry about a spare as you can ride them flat (and if you puncture your race is over anyway).

    Yup, that was my thinking.
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    fenix wrote:
    Yeah someone in my club did that in a club 25 - punctured with two miles to go but carried on. Destroying an £800 disc wheel on the way....

    Ouch!
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    huskie69 wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    First thing is to get rid of the front wheel. Not only is it censored , but it doesn't look CTT legal.

    Is that from first hand experience?

    Also - CTT regs:
    https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/articles/view/11
    (f) Disc wheels or spoked wheels fitted with covers may be used only on the rear of a machine.

    (g) Deep section rims, tri-spoke and wheels of a similar design may be used. The front wheel must have at least 45% of the surface area open.

    So I think I'm good with the front - visually, it looks like at least 45% of the surface area is open
    Grill wrote:
    As for tubs, don't worry about a spare as you can ride them flat (and if you puncture your race is over anyway).

    Yup, that was my thinking.

    I've tested many wheels. It's censored (and will be worse than censored unless you can find a good narrow tub). If you're unsure then test it against, well, pretty much anything else. Not saying that it won't get you round (unless it's windy), but you'll need to pedal harder than those using other wheels.

    Oh and don't tape your tubs, that's so much worse.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    Grill wrote:
    I've tested many wheels. It's censored (and will be worse than censored unless you can find a good narrow tub). If you're unsure then test it against, well, pretty much anything else. Not saying that it won't get you round (unless it's windy), but you'll need to pedal harder than those using other wheels.

    Cheers, I doubt anyone with any sense would let me test some of their beloved >£1k wheelsets, and to be honest, there's not many of them about round where I live anyway! I couldn't even get hold of a spare Di2 battery to test my system when it went dead!

    As for the Pro-lite front wheel, surely it's going to be more effective as a TT wheel than my undranded aluminium road wheel (Supra RA24)?
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    It's likely no worse than the Supra. Keep your eyes open for a Flo or HED 60-90mm front wheel. Even an old 404 is fast with the right tub.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    Thanks everyone for the advice so far, given me some food for thought. It's a shame I can't use parts from my two donor bikes (I'll just have to get rid of them and put the money towards some new TT components!

    Bike arrives tomorrow so I can suss it out and take it from there :D
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • Simon MastersonSimon Masterson Posts: 2,740
    huskie69 wrote:
    I like tubs but I don't think I'd recommend starting with them 'just because'. Once upon a time they may have been the only serious option for a racing tyre, but those days are long gone; if anything some clinchers and tubeless are edging out tubs in RR tests. If you really love tubs, tub tape can make them a bit more practical and less messy, but the RR penalty means that you are (literally) wasting your time.

    Thanks for this. Unfortunately, the wheelset comes with the bike so tubs (in this instance) are something I'm going to have to get familiar with.

    So RR (rolling road??) tests prove that tubs stuck with tape are actually slower than the equivalent clinchers? Is that due to the weight? What's the weight difference between some tape and an inner tube?

    Also, I thought tubs were "tubeless", is there a 3rd type of tyre?!

    RR=rolling resistance; apologies if that wasn't clear.

    Various tests have shown that taped tubs have more rolling resistance than glued. Effetto Mariposa tested their own Carogna tub tape and reported that it was a good few watts slower. The bond with tape just isn't as rigid, so the tub can squirm on the rim - but for this to have any value, it does presuppose that you glue your tubs well enough. Since the difference is potentially bigger than between a nice racing tub and a training tyre, and I don't mind sticking on tubs, I use glue. Many others differ.

    Tubeless is a separate system, yes - tubs have inner tubes; the tyre carcass is just sewn around the tube. Having said that, Tufo make tubs with a tubeless design.
  • huskie69huskie69 Posts: 87
    yes - tubs have inner tubes; the tyre carcass is just sewn around the tube.

    I didn't realise this! That's actually quite reassuring as I was under the assumption that the air was sealed in by the gluing process. So the glue is just to keep the tyre on the rim, and likewise with the tape.

    I think at this stage, and as I'm a total beginner, I won't be too concerned about saving a few watts here or there so for me personally I'd take the "less hassle" option and opt for the tape. Obviosuly if I decide that my times against other participants are quite comparable, I might start looking at eeking out those marginal gains!
    Sensa SL Aquila Di2
    Mekk Poggio 2.5 (smashed but can't bear to part with a carbon frame :( )
    Cannondale Synapse CAAD10 (Winter Hack)
    Shark Attack Pro Ltd - TT project build
  • ravey1981ravey1981 Posts: 1,111
    Sounds like you're in way over your head here to be honest. Genuine advice, send it back and use the money to buy a built bike, if you've got £2500 to spend you have plenty of options. Planet X, Dolan scala etc come to mind. I recently built up a TT bike for around £500 and its still quicker than I am....
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