20mph limit

elbowloh

inbike wrote:

Unfortunately cars still race down it, and the new road surface feels slippery in the wet when cycling.

So I'm not sure it's the best implementation of the concept.

Yeah I walking down there the other day and a car was smashing it down there doing (I estimated) over 40mph, really revving it past peds and cyclists.

Pufftmw

Arbu wrote:

1. It seems to me that pedestrians are stepping out into the road without looking much more than they used to, and it's really annoying. They listen, but they don't look, because they feel that the risk is less than before because even if they haven't heard a car, if there is one it will be able to stop. And they don't think that there might be a cyclist approaching (possibly at 25-30mph).

I think you are seriously overestimating the intelligence of a pedestrian to link the reduction in speed limit to a potential increase in safety, leading them to make less informed choices about whether or not its safe to walk out into the road. Smart phones and other distractions would be more the reason for an increased level of suicidal tendancies than the fact that the speed limit has changed, which because they are pedestrians, probably doesn't mean anything to them anyway.

Pufftmw

JGSI wrote:

Hulking great SUVs which are so well built to withstand the stresses of urban life... many are driven at 5mph over bleedin' speed bumps by their incompetent drivers.....

Speak for yourself! I chose to drive my "hulking great SUV" at max 20mph, as that is the limit in Lewisham where I live and I chose to slow down for speed bumps as I don't particularly like myself and any passengers thrown around the cabin of the car. Plus it destroys very expensive suspension components... I have over 2.5 tonnes of heavy metal that I am responsible for, so I don't particularly want to be at fault for squashing someone.

kingstongraham

I'm not convinced that now is the best time for advocating the removal of segregation between pedestrians and vehicles in London.

Nellyspania

20mph is about the fastest I'd feel safe doing in an urban environment now anyway; I've too many near-misses and learnt that pulling up or swerving is a lot easier at 17mph than 27mph...

rhodrich

I'm very pleased to see that a 20mph limit has just been introduced on Priory Lane. There's now no excuse for cars to need to overtake cyclists going at a sensible pace along there, which should reduce the potential for conflict. Wishful thinking? Perhaps.

kingstongraham

Rhodrich wrote:

I'm very pleased to see that a 20mph limit has just been introduced on Priory Lane. There's now no excuse for cars to need to overtake cyclists going at a sensible pace along there, which should reduce the potential for conflict. Wishful thinking? Perhaps.

Perhaps - I hadn't noticed that until you said. I'm guessing most drivers haven't either. I still got overtaken down there last night, but not this morning.

Obeying the speed limit would mean most drivers slowing down from over 20 when they leave the park, so I won't hold my breath.

vpnikolov

Rhodrich wrote:

I'm very pleased to see that a 20mph limit has just been introduced on Priory Lane. There's now no excuse for cars to need to overtake cyclists going at a sensible pace along there, which should reduce the potential for conflict. Wishful thinking? Perhaps.

About time... I have always wondered why the limit is 30mph on that road, seemed quite inadequate.

prawny

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I notice that cars overtake me even if I'm doing 20 - it's almost as if they feel they should be going faster than a bike - then slow up once they're past.

This is my experience too. However the same thing sometimes happens when I'm cycling at 30mph and the limit it 30mph.

Same here - 30mph limit down the hill from my house, I often freewheel down in the high 30's/low 40's and I still get overtaken and then brake tested when they realise they're doing nearly 50 in a 30 :evil:

First.Aspect

As I understand things, there's no evidence that it improves road safety.

It makes no difference to the amount of queues in Edinburgh city centre. It makes little difference to the speed of traffic elsewhere. Pedestrian behaviour doesn't seem to me to have changed- it is still headphone dominated.

The only differences I see is that cars are far more likely to "nip" out of side roads into my path, and cars spend an awful lot more time next to me, contemplating things like approaching lights, traffic islands, etc. This makes me feel less safe.

inbike

The police are visiting on Monday and bringing a speed gun.

Should surprise a few rat-runners. I'm hoping we get a repeat of the 60mph incident (past a school/20 limit) while they are there so they can take the guys motorbike away and crush it.

Man Of Lard

First Aspect wrote:

As I understand things, there's no evidence that it improves road safety.

Except the kinetic energy of any collision is more than halved going from 30mph to 20mph.

At 20 mph, 9 in 10 pedestrians will not die in a collision with a vehicle.
At 30 mph, 5 in 10 pedestrians will not die in a collision with a vehicle.
At 40 mph, 1 in 10 pedestrians will not die in a collision with a vehicle.

So the collision may still happen, but statistically the consequences are reduced greatly.

cougie

I'm with MOL here. 20mph for cars is much better for us cyclists as that's probably our top end speed on the flat.

First.Aspect

Man Of Lard wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

As I understand things, there's no evidence that it improves road safety.

Except the kinetic energy of any collision is more than halved going from 30mph to 20mph.

At 20 mph, 9 in 10 pedestrians will not die in a collision with a vehicle.
At 30 mph, 5 in 10 pedestrians will not die in a collision with a vehicle.
At 40 mph, 1 in 10 pedestrians will not die in a collision with a vehicle.

So the collision may still happen, but statistically the consequences are reduced greatly.

Intuitively, this seems reasonable. Nonetheless, there is no evidence that this will be measureable in accident/injury statistics, nor for that matter if it will be reflected in improved cycle safety. There are a number of peer reviewed studies ongoing.

First.Aspect

cougie wrote:

I'm with MOL here. 20mph for cars is much better for us cyclists as that's probably our top end speed on the flat.

Have you experienced this in practice?

Perhaps drivers will get used to it, but at the moment I'm finding it far less safe, particularly around road calming measures,pinch points etc because I am likely to have a vehicle next to me at approximately the same speed. 2 in to 1 doesn't go and inevitably the bike has to brake and let the car go first. Not good.

The issue is not that the I find myself having to slow down very often because of the speed limit, it is the prolonged proximity to drivers. They just aren't used to it - once you are in the blind spot, you cease to exist after all. That period is now massively longer than for 30mph limits.