Guardian Article on Rapha

bernithebiker

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -lifestyle

dstev55

Never really understood the Rapha look myself. Similar to how I don't really understand the obsession with Castelli gear.

I mean, what is the attraction in looking the same as many other cyclists on the road?

If i see someone else wearing the same gear as me I find it almost embarrassing, in a similar way in which I would expect a woman would feel if another woman was wearing the same dress on a night out.

meanredspider

dstev55 wrote:

Never really understood the Rapha look myself. Similar to how I don't really understand the obsession with Castelli gear.

I mean, what is the attraction in looking the same as many other cyclists on the road?

If i see someone else wearing the same gear as me I find it almost embarrassing, in a similar way in which I would expect a woman would feel if another woman was wearing the same dress on a night out.

What do you wear, out of interest? I hope you're not a runner as I think they seem to nearly all wear Nike and that would be incredibly embarrassing

I choose my bike gear on the basis of quality: stuff that will last well and keep me warm/cool/dry/protected (delete as appropriate) - inevitably some other cyclists have the same values so inevitably I'm seen wearing the same brand as others.

dstev55

meanredspider wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Never really understood the Rapha look myself. Similar to how I don't really understand the obsession with Castelli gear.

I mean, what is the attraction in looking the same as many other cyclists on the road?

If i see someone else wearing the same gear as me I find it almost embarrassing, in a similar way in which I would expect a woman would feel if another woman was wearing the same dress on a night out.

What do you wear, out of interest? I hope you're not a runner as I think they seem to nearly all wear Nike and that would be incredibly embarrassing

I choose my bike gear on the basis of quality: stuff that will last well and keep me warm/cool/dry/protected (delete as appropriate) - inevitably some other cyclists have the same values so inevitably I'm seen wearing the same brand as others.

I'm definitely a cyclist!

I've got quite a bit of Stolen Goat gear, which I've only ever seen one other person wearing up my way. I like Le Col gear too but it's Rapha-like in it's pricing and I will only buy it if pulls on the heart strings rather than being practical.

daniel_b

I haven't bought into the 'Rapha look' at all, but I do like quality gear, and if something fits me, is comfy, and enhances my ride, then I will buy it, and likely more from that same manufacturer.

I have a few select Rapha items, but have never bought anything from them at full price, and likely never will do, always wait for the sales and or when extra discount codes come out.

For me, that's the nest of all worlds, one of the best quality garmet makers out there, but at a more reasonable cost.

Probably my best buy was some Summer lightweight bibs - think the RRP was £160, and I bought them for £81, also had some socks for £5 a pop.
Have a small selection of their jerseys, and am just waiting for some bibs to be delivered, part of a bundle deal, and with a 25% discount code.
Oh also have some Core bibs which feel very good, but have yet to try.

I have some Stolen goat jerseys (Sale again) and very nice they are too.

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I saw someone wearing the same kit as me - there are thousands of cyclists around, and it would just mean that they had the same thought process as me, or happened to see the same sale!

fenix

I do a lot of running - I don't think I own a single bit of Nike. Always seems very overpriced to me.
Running tops don't need a lot of technical work do they - some kind of tech material and the jobs 90% done.
Shorts - well they're just shorts.

There is more to bike clothing with the chafing and the extra wind resistance and aerodynamics and waterproofing.

Rapha kit always seems incredibly pricey compared to the competition. Then again the competition don't have swanky cafes and arty websites - so you can see where the cost goes - grungy photoshoots.

I suppose Rapha and co have done wonders for the quality of kit - when I started cycling there wasn't much choice but if you'd turned up on the clubrun wearing the equivalent of £200 shorts you'd never hear the end of it.

ugo.santalucia

Interesting they say they want to expand to the less wealthy customers... so far I have no evidence of that being the case.

I used to like Rapha when they had a good range of sportwool jerseys, but since they teamed up with Sky, basically they sell the same PRO stuff you can get on Wiggle from other manufacturers... often cheaper and equal quality when not better

In addition, I find most jerseys in the more recent collections truly ghastly

meanredspider

Fenix wrote:

I do a lot of running - I don't think I own a single bit of Nike. Always seems very overpriced to me.

I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek about Nike and running. And I do also have some sympathy with the idea of being an individual - it's not for no reason that I ride a Volagi (my brother being the only other person I know of in the country with one). But individuality wouldn't stop me buying something good for that reason alone.

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Interesting they say they want to expand to the less wealthy customers... so far I have no evidence of that being the case.

They did bring out their basic range. Though, to be honest, I'm wary of basic products made by premium brands - they don't know where to take the costs out. I think I'd rather buy dhb rather than Rapha basic.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

I think I'd rather buy dhb rather than Rapha basic.

Agree

mellex

I do think Rapha get the s**ty end of the stick from sections of the cycling community. Yes, their products are priced towards the higher end of the spectrum but they and the likes of ASSOS and Castelli have opened the doors to numerous other 'High-end' manufactures. The likes of MAAP, VOID and Morvelo all occupy comparable price points.

Of the six brands mentioned above, all have horrific pieces in their current/back catalogues and black with 'reflective detailing' seems to be a default setting for style, which is something I will never personally understand.

Whilst never having paid full whack for Rapha clothing, I have never purchased an item from them that I was less that 100% satisfied with and has done the job for which it was purchased.

I can think of many other cycle clothing brands that I wish I could lavish such praise upon.

stevie63

I like the fact that he moans that cheap Aldi Jerseys are just a bit of 100% polyester when one of my worst performing Jerseys is a Rapha Supercross Jersey that I bought in the sales (thankfully only about £35.00 reduced from £75) which as far as I can tell is a bit of 100% polyester that doesn't breathe very well. However I do like their shorts and Brevet jerseys but only at sales prices.

fenix

Has anyone bought any of the David Millar stuff ? That looked awful. And all washed out grey from what I recall. £200 for a top that's grey and one micron thin ? Perfect.

meanredspider

mellex wrote:

Whilst never having paid full whack for Rapha clothing, I have never purchased an item from them that I was less that 100% satisfied with and has done the job for which it was purchased.

Like many others, I've only bought Rapha as a discounted product (same goes for Assos) and, generally, the quality has been good. But it has had some bad patches. The first pairs of socks I got holed at the toes almost instantly, I've had issues with some peeling logos (including the original RCC shorts), and the first pair of GT gloves (RRP £150! - I paid 1/3rd of that) died in under 6 months. Assos, on the other hand, has been faultless bar a pair of gloves where the stitching came undone (a not uncommon problem with many pairs of gloves of all sorts). So I would rate Rapha at no more than 8/10 for consistency of quality.

cgfw201

Rapha is pretty widely known as 95% marketing, 5% product quality. It's pretty good stuff, but no better than rival products.

What they absolutely nail is the perceived value, and the clubhouses, coffee and expensive holidays attract the kind of person who spends loads of money on stuff without caring much about the quality of it.

Does generally look smart though, just a lot of terrible people and/or cyclists wear it and let the brand down a bit.

meanredspider

cgfw201 wrote:

What they absolutely nail is the perceived value, and the clubhouses, coffee and expensive holidays attract the kind of person who spends loads of money on stuff without caring much about the quality of it.
.

To be fair, I think that summary is wrong. My experience (based on being an expat in Amsterdam and using the Clubhouse there as an RCC member) is that Rapha aim for excellence (don't always achieve that) and the people that buy into that are also prepared to pay for that ambition. The people I've met in the clubhouse absolutely cared about quality.

As a "for-instance", the attention to detail on the coffee was exemplary. The barista was an absolute coffee nerd (I'd met in another AMS specialist coffee bar) who made fabulous coffee (some of the best I've had anywhere). The coffee was a local brand and they fussed about the milk too. The guy who looked after the food was a sous chef in a Michelin-starred restaurant and did cooking classes in the clubhouse. I absolutely couldn't fault anything and I'm a fussy bu99er. A friend did one of their holiday things and again said it was perfect.

kingstongraham

Fenix wrote:

Has anyone bought any of the David Millar stuff ? That looked awful. And all washed out grey from what I recall. £200 for a top that's grey and one micron thin ? Perfect.

Is that even thick enough to cover the injection marks?

supermurph09

I quite like the simple styling of the kit but I would agree with the above, for the basic range you'd be better buying other brands. The winter cap and arm warmers are great though.

Castelli generally put the larger person off by sizing very small, you don't generally see the larger rider in Castelli in my experience. The Gabba is first rate, I'd also give a plus to Morvelo, whilst pricey it's very good.

cgfw201

meanredspider wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

What they absolutely nail is the perceived value, and the clubhouses, coffee and expensive holidays attract the kind of person who spends loads of money on stuff without caring much about the quality of it.
.

To be fair, I think that summary is wrong. My experience (based on being an expat in Amsterdam and using the Clubhouse there as an RCC member) is that Rapha aim for excellence (don't always achieve that) and the people that buy into that are also prepared to pay for that ambition. The people I've met in the clubhouse absolutely cared about quality.

As a "for-instance", the attention to detail on the coffee was exemplary. The barista was an absolute coffee nerd (I'd met in another AMS specialist coffee bar) who made fabulous coffee (some of the best I've had anywhere). The coffee was a local brand and they fussed about the milk too. The guy who looked after the food was a sous chef in a Michelin-starred restaurant and did cooking classes in the clubhouse. I absolutely couldn't fault anything and I'm a fussy bu99er. A friend did one of their holiday things and again said it was perfect.

Yeh I think that stuff is all bang on, coffee Is very good, the pastries are excellent and the attention to detail in the shops is great, and their events all look very much worth any premium they attach to them, although they do plenty for free. I was more talking about the kit, where it doesn’t perform any better than other brands. Supposedly Assos, Gore and Giro are way out on their own in terms of quality of product, with everyone else falling in behind.

meanredspider

cgfw201 wrote:

Yeh I think that stuff is all bang on, coffee Is very good, the pastries are excellent and the attention to detail in the shops is great, and their events all look very much worth any premium they attach to them, although they do plenty for free. I was more talking about the kit, where it doesn’t perform any better than other brands. Supposedly Assos, Gore and Giro are way out on their own in terms of quality of product, with everyone else falling in behind.

Yeah - I think those guys have a track record in quality and understand what it takes. I think Rapha want to they just don't yet know how to do it consistently. I can be 99% sure that if I buy Assos it will do exactly what I expect it to. With Rapha, I'm only 80% sure. Gore is a difficult one. I have huge respect for them though the Phantom I had didn't work quite right (Gore were the first to admit they had some stuff to fix in the next gen). Giro, I'll agree, seem faultless too - had endless lids for all the family from them plus a few other bits like shoes and they've always been perfect. They seem to stick to what they know.

I think Rapha will get there eventually - they absolutely have to if they want to maintain a reputation.

stueys

cgfw201 wrote:

Rapha is pretty widely known as 95% marketing, 5% product quality. It's pretty good stuff, but no better than rival products.

What they absolutely nail is the perceived value, and the clubhouses, coffee and expensive holidays attract the kind of person who spends loads of money on stuff without caring much about the quality of it.

Does generally look smart though, just a lot of terrible people and/or cyclists wear it and let the brand down a bit.

Completely disagree. I think Rapha are known for a premium product at a premium price. With one or two exceptions I've been very pleased with the Rapha gear I've bought, great fit and top performance. They back that with excellent customer service, I've returned lightweight bib shorts (2 pairs, 2 years old) that were wearing badly and Rapha swapped them for new ones without quibble. Ultimately you are paying for the service and product, I think they compare favourably if you choose your moment to buy and you factor in the overall proposition.

AK_jnr

I've only had the roubaix 3/4 tights and a pro team jersey which I got very cheap and they were good to be fair. No chance I'd pay full whack though

I do really like Castelli's shorts, or their pad especially.

To be honest though, the DHB aero stuff has been superb. Lovely cut, nice length sleeves and the all black shorts are very good. Great quality and go with everything.

bondurant

Cynical, and possibly posted on here already. Probably quite close to the truth for some brands.

https://youtu.be/YgQsm-5cfpk

flasher

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I think I'd rather buy dhb rather than Rapha basic.

Agree

The Rapha Core jerseys are really very good IMO. nice deep pockets, big silicon gripper on rear hem, no over the top branding and a really good fit (for me), even better I picked a couple up half price in the sale a couple of months ago, but I would pay full wack, if I needed more!

My top picks are the ProTeam bibs and Training jacket, top quality and certainly no more expensive than other high end cycle clothing companies, like Ale, Assos, Castelli etc.

I really don't understand the bile directed at Rapha, surely as the majority here are UK based we should be supporting them rather than slagging them off, but I guess that's the British way!

teebs_123

Flasher wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I think I'd rather buy dhb rather than Rapha basic.

Agree

The Rapha Core jerseys are really very good IMO. nice deep pockets, big silicon gripper on rear hem, no over the top branding and a really good fit (for me), even better I picked a couple up half price in the sale a couple of months ago, but I would pay full wack, if I needed more!

My top picks are the ProTeam bibs and Training jacket, top quality and certainly no more expensive than other high end cycle clothing companies, like Ale, Assos, Castelli etc.

I really don't understand the bile directed at Rapha, surely as the majority here are UK based we should be supporting them rather than slagging them off, but I guess that's the British way!

The Core jersey is just horrible, sweaty Polyester. If you stuck a Sports Direct logo on, nobody would buy one.

triggmiester

I rarely buy full price Rapha gear, but the reason I buy it is for the sizing, their XS actually fits me nicely. It helps i like their styling, which I feel is nicely understated. But stuff that fits is always first on the list. A lot of brands don't do XS gear which I find strange.......

flasher

Teebs_123 wrote:

The Core jersey is just horrible, sweaty Polyester. If you stuck a Sports Direct logo on, nobody would buy one.

Just a random selection from Wiggle:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/assos-ssneopro-uk-jersey/
97% Polyester

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/castelli-prologo-v-jersey/
100% Polyester

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ale-graphics-prr-camo-jersey/
85% Polyester

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/castelli-gabba-3-jersey/
92% Polyester

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/gore-bike-wear- ... ve-jersey/
100% Polyester

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-classic-sho ... igodigital
100% Polyester

and finally Castelli's top of the range Alpha jersey RRP.£175, yep you've guessed it 100% Polyester main body.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/castelli-alpha- ... nd-jersey/

awavey

Flasher wrote:

Teebs_123 wrote:

The Core jersey is just horrible, sweaty Polyester. If you stuck a Sports Direct logo on, nobody would buy one.

Just a random selection from Wiggle:
....

snip lots of links

I sort of read the 100% polyester line, not as a jibe on that its not made of organic bamboo cotton or whatever the in vogue material is as such, but more that the Aldi top is just about the headline cost & its just basically a bit of material, theres been no thought or design gone into the top, if it works for you, and not denying for some people the Aldi stuff does work, its by chance or happenstance, its not because someone sat there and thought about the fit, the comfort,the look, the pockets, zips the whole design, and its that which is where the cost starts to rise considerably.

and I accept that maybe my own bias creeping in as I dont rate the Aldi stuff on any of those aspects, whilst the Rapha stuff tends to tick those boxes for me, and I know Ive said more than once in threads like these, Im happy to take time to save up and spend a bit more if I feel what I get at the end of the day is something I feel is decent quality, and touch wood all the Rapha stuff Ive bought has been.

and Ive moved from buying at discount to buying some at full price as they do have a very good line of womens kit, that doesnt make you feel like you are having somekind of return to the 80's trip due to the colour clashing headache inducing patterns, theres alot to be said for understated styling sometimes.

chippyk

They can be a bit poncy to be honest, but even if they are made from the same material as a cheaper brand, you can often see the design effort that has gone into the clothes. For example the loop in the pocket for your pump (never used it), the extra zip pockets in the Brevet jerseys are great for phone, cash/cards, extra large zip handles on the back pocket that make them easier to use and so on.

Having said that I've never paid full price, but the Pro Team bib shorts I picked up last year for £56 were a bargain, even if they are Sky. The PT bibs and tights are outstanding in my opinionz

daniel_b

The Rapha hate does confuse me as well - when I started cycling, I never dreamed I would be spending anything like that kind of cash on cycle clothing, so the likes of Rapha, Assos etc were not remotely a consideration.

My most expensive bib short purchase were some Nike ones, reduced to £26, and that took some mulling over!

As I covered more miles, and it becomes more than just an idle hobby though, I started to see the benefits of better kit, and the potential lack of comfort and durability of lesser priced options - not always the case though I would agree.
I had exactly the same experience with Oakley - always wrote them off as way too expensive, until I was gifted a pair one birthday - the evident quality of the frame and optics won me over.

I'm not a brand snob though, I like Rapha, but that makes up a small portion of my clothing, I also have Craft, Etxeondo, La Passione, Stolen Goat, Twin Six, Castell, Mavic, Sportful to name but a few!
I basically buy what I know or think will fit well, that I like the look of, and is what I deem to be good value for money at the time.

I wouldn't say there are any brands I hate though - why would I hate a brand, it's just a business that makes clothes, which I am free to choose to buy or not.

bendertherobot

Dan B nails it.