Wheels for the mountains

JesseD

Off to Vamos in September to have a week riding in the mountains and given my build I am going to need all the help I can!

I am looking at buying a pair of climbing wheels to take as my current wheel selection will not be suitable (DT Swiss Di-Cut 65C's, Fulcrum Racing Quattro's, Shimano RS-11's).

I am after something that will be light but sturdy enough to carry my 82kg, preferably aluminium, clincher and with a wide rim, budget will be no more than £600 (ish)

Only wheels I am not keen on at Fulcrums as I have had some bad experiences with their wheels recently with the braking surfaces on the front rims pulsing under braking and the bearings failing after not a lot of use. Was thinking maybe Mavics or even handbuilt?

imposter2.0

Interested to understand more about why any of that current selection you mention will 'not be suitable'..?? They all sound fine to me. In principle, any functioning wheel will be suitable.

You mention your weight - unless you are 6ft of over, then you probably have weight to lose. Would you rather spend to lose 300g off your wheelset, or diet to lose 3000g off your bodyweight?

teebs_123

JesseD wrote:

Off to Vamos in September to have a week riding in the mountains and given my build I am going to need all the help I can!

I am looking at buying a pair of climbing wheels to take as my current wheel selection will not be suitable (DT Swiss Di-Cut 65C's, Fulcrum Racing Quattro's, Shimano RS-11's).

I am after something that will be light but sturdy enough to carry my 82kg, preferably aluminium, clincher and with a wide rim, budget will be no more than £600 (ish)

Only wheels I am not keen on at Fulcrums as I have had some bad experiences with their wheels recently with the braking surfaces on the front rims pulsing under braking and the bearings failing after not a lot of use. Was thinking maybe Mavics or even handbuilt?

Handbuilt H Plus Son Archetype w/ Hope Pro 4 hubs. Serviceable, look good, will ride even better.

sheffsimon

JesseD wrote:

Off to Vamos in September to have a week riding in the mountains and given my build I am going to need all the help I can!

I am looking at buying a pair of climbing wheels to take as my current wheel selection will not be suitable (DT Swiss Di-Cut 65C's, Fulcrum Racing Quattro's, Shimano RS-11's).

I am after something that will be light but sturdy enough to carry my 82kg, preferably aluminium, clincher and with a wide rim, budget will be no more than £600 (ish)

Only wheels I am not keen on at Fulcrums as I have had some bad experiences with their wheels recently with the braking surfaces on the front rims pulsing under braking and the bearings failing after not a lot of use. Was thinking maybe Mavics or even handbuilt?

As per the drift of Imposter's reply, a new set of wheels will make zero difference to your climbing. Your mental strength/willpower and your power to weight ratio are the things that will affect how fast you climb. Any wheel weight difference is not even a water bottle in weight.

ZMC888

With a new set of wheels like the Dt Swiss Dicut RR 21 you could not only take up to 600g of your bike compared with heavy OEM wheels, totally changing the entire characteristics of your bike making it more fun to ride and accelerate quicker and handle better. Surely fun is why we do this? Sure you'd only gain a smidgeon on the hills but anyone suggesting that 'it's cheaper just to take a shit/not bring a water bottle/go on a diet is entirely missing the point or just jealous. Obviously if your BMI is over 30 then I'd say hold off on the wheels and cut some weight, but if you're under BMI 25 or thereabouts then go for it!

Also don't forget about running lighter tires, some plastcky OEM tires weigh up to 400g each, whereas 25mm Conti Gp4000S2s are only a dab over 200g, saving you nearly 400g off the wheels if you haven't done so already.

I'm thinking about the Dt Swiss Dicut RR 21for my Everesting bike, I've always been a fan of their hubs. I've had Fulcrums before but I haven't been totally blown away by the longevity compared to their sister company Campagnolo.

mrb123

How about these?
http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/product/a ... -in-stock/

JesseD

Imposter wrote:

Interested to understand more about why any of that current selection you mention will 'not be suitable'..?? They all sound fine to me. In principle, any functioning wheel will be suitable.

You mention your weight - unless you are 6ft of over, then you probably have weight to lose. Would you rather spend to lose 300g off your wheelset, or diet to lose 3000g off your bodyweight?

Fulcrums and Shimano's are too heavy and to be honest are nearing the end of their lives. The DT Swiss are carbon and deep sections, i dont want to risk damaging the rim from heat build up when coming down the other side of a mountain, happened to a club mate of mine who took his Reynolds to the high alps and cooked the rims till they delaminated and warped, plus its windy in the mountains in Southern Spain apparently and 65mm deep rims dont sound like a good idea.

My build goes against me on the uphills, I am more of a rugby player shape than a climber, genetics etc have not been kind to me for my chosen sport, that said I can climb but not as quickly as the younger lighter riders, however I can make them hurt on the flats as I have a lot more power, horses for courses an all that.

Lighter wheels will make the bike feel better going up the climbs which is what I am after, and an alu brake track will give me a bit more confidence coming down the other side, I like to descend fast so braking is pretty important to me.

JesseD

ZMC888 wrote:

With a new set of wheels like the Dt Swiss Dicut RR 21 you could not only take up to 600g of your bike compared with heavy OEM wheels, totally changing the entire characteristics of your bike making it more fun to ride and accelerate quicker and handle better. Surely fun is why we do this? Sure you'd only gain a smidgeon on the hills but anyone suggesting that 'it's cheaper just to take a shoot/not bring a water bottle/go on a diet is entirely missing the point or just jealous. Obviously if your BMI is over 30 then I'd say hold off on the wheels and cut some weight, but if you're under BMI 25 or thereabouts then go for it!

Also don't forget about running lighter tires, some plastcky OEM tires weigh up to 400g each, whereas 25mm Conti Gp4000S2s are only a dab over 200g, saving you nearly 400g off the wheels if you haven't done so already.

I'm thinking about the for my Everesting bike, I've always been a fan of their hubs. I've had Fulcrums before but I haven't been totally blown away by the longevity compared to their sister company Campagnolo.

This is pretty much my point, the wheels may not make a massive difference but they will make some difference, for example if I put the RS-11s on my race bike in place of the DT Swiss, the bike feels sluggish and heavy, its only 1kg heavier however as its in the wheels it transforms the feel of the bike, so having lighter wheels for climbing IMO will make a difference, it will also make it more fun!

Tyres were the other thing I was looking at, I am a fan of the Schwable One’s and the Conti’s, but a mate of mine raves about Specialized S-Works Turbos (and they come with a tan side wall ).

Those DT Swiss do look good, price is a factor though and these would be at the top of my budget so justifying them to myself is easy but to the OH may not be.

I have had a fair few wheels from Fulcrum, 3 pair of Racing Quattros (all replaced under warranty as they failed), a pair of Racing 7’s that came as training wheels with my race bike and have since been sold, and a pair of racing 1’s when the first came out and I had nothing but issues with spokes snapping on them. Plus the freehubs are terrible, the alloy they use is too soft for Shimano and the cassettes bite in and get stuck. Thhink I will avoid from now on.

JesseD

MrB123 wrote:

How about these?
http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/product/a ... -in-stock/

They look interesting, dont know much about Strada Wheels if I am honest, the rims are decent but not sure about the hubs and there arent many reviews about?

mrb123

JesseD wrote:

MrB123 wrote:

How about these?
http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/product/a ... -in-stock/

They look interesting, dont know much about Strada Wheels if I am honest, the rims are decent but not sure about the hubs and there arent many reviews about?

Bit of info on the Aivee hubs here. David at DCR seems to be a fan
http://dcrwheels.co.uk/products/hubs/road-hubs/

ZMC888

JesseD wrote:

ZMC888 wrote:

With a new set of wheels like the Dt Swiss Dicut RR 21 you could not only take up to 600g of your bike compared with heavy OEM wheels, totally changing the entire characteristics of your bike making it more fun to ride and accelerate quicker and handle better. Surely fun is why we do this? Sure you'd only gain a smidgeon on the hills but anyone suggesting that 'it's cheaper just to take a shoot/not bring a water bottle/go on a diet is entirely missing the point or just jealous. Obviously if your BMI is over 30 then I'd say hold off on the wheels and cut some weight, but if you're under BMI 25 or thereabouts then go for it!

Also don't forget about running lighter tires, some plastcky OEM tires weigh up to 400g each, whereas 25mm Conti Gp4000S2s are only a dab over 200g, saving you nearly 400g off the wheels if you haven't done so already.

I'm thinking about the for my Everesting bike, I've always been a fan of their hubs. I've had Fulcrums before but I haven't been totally blown away by the longevity compared to their sister company Campagnolo.

This is pretty much my point, the wheels may not make a massive difference but they will make some difference, for example if I put the RS-11s on my race bike in place of the DT Swiss, the bike feels sluggish and heavy, its only 1kg heavier however as its in the wheels it transforms the feel of the bike, so having lighter wheels for climbing IMO will make a difference, it will also make it more fun!

Tyres were the other thing I was looking at, I am a fan of the Schwable One’s and the Conti’s, but a mate of mine raves about Specialized S-Works Turbos (and they come with a tan side wall ).

Those DT Swiss do look good, price is a factor though and these would be at the top of my budget so justifying them to myself is easy but to the OH may not be.

I have had a fair few wheels from Fulcrum, 3 pair of Racing Quattros (all replaced under warranty as they failed), a pair of Racing 7’s that came as training wheels with my race bike and have since been sold, and a pair of racing 1’s when the first came out and I had nothing but issues with spokes snapping on them. Plus the freehubs are terrible, the alloy they use is too soft for Shimano and the cassettes bite in and get stuck. Thhink I will avoid from now on.

Like you I was thinking about carbon wheels with an alloy brake track, but the weight and durability don't seem right IMHO. I've eliminated a purely carbon clincher for the hills unless I was running disks or tubs. So needing an alloy wheel I think shallow is the way forward. If I was going cheaper then I think I'd have a serious look at the Campagnolo range and see what's within budget or get a pair built. Have you discounted the idea of running tubular tires, as these seem to be really light.

For me I'm certainly interested in trying to get a pair of shallow alloy wheels in under 1450g, but with some decent durability. Really out of your price range? https://www.rosebikes.com/article/dt-sw ... aid:862046

svetty

Handbuilt are nice in that you get to choose the spec. Malcolm no doubt could suggest something suitable.

What about Pacenti Forza on White industries, DA, or Hope hubs? 20/28 with Lasers or Cx-rays would come in at around 1550gms. The new 30mm deep AI33 rims look good on paper too if availability improves, or you could always get the Hed Belgium Plus if you're happy spending to get quality.

imposter2.0

JesseD wrote:

My build goes against me on the uphills, I am more of a rugby player shape than a climber, genetics etc have not been kind to me for my chosen sport,

Nobody is born with a 'rugby build' - that's just a convenient excuse, no offence. Unless you have any kind of diagnosed weight management issue, then you still have the option is losing considerably more from your body than you can reasonably spend on losing it from the bike.

I take the point about maybe not wanting to use a set of wheels that are near the end of their lifespan to descend in the mountains, but within reason whatever wheelset you select will not give you any significant advantage/disadvantage.

If you want new wheels, then go for it, but don't pretend they'll give you some kind of significant climbing benefit.

ugo.santalucia

If you want really light, then look at Spada Stiletto wheels... they rave about them on Italian forums and you can get a set that weighs 1200 grams in alloy and for clinchers... that's the only sensible way to save significant weight.

I am in the Alps at the moment, riding an old pair of 36 spokes that weighs about 2 kg... it was a struggle at first, but I am getting used, this morning I managed 5 km at 9% average with ramps (lacets) at 12% or so... that with a 41 x 26 gear of course...

Basically any wheel you take with you will be fine and once there you won't even know... of course if you are after brilliance on Strava, that is a different matter... I reckon I could shave 1-2 minutes and go up 100 places in the KOM up those climbs with a decent bike... but to be honest I don't really give a toss :-)

https://www.strava.com/activities/936154430

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

Nobody is born with a 'rugby build' - that's just a convenient excuse, no offence.

I don't expect you to agree but I've have to disagree with your comment. That's not to say that the OP couldn't lose some weight but of course we are genetically predisposed to have certain body shapes. You don't see siblings where one person is tall and wirey and another who is equally lean but built like an out-house, for instance (at least not naturally).

StillGoing

ZMC888 wrote:

With a new set of wheels like the Dt Swiss Dicut RR 21 you could not only take up to 600g of your bike compared with heavy OEM wheels, totally changing the entire characteristics of your bike making it more fun to ride and accelerate quicker and handle better. Surely fun is why we do this? Sure you'd only gain a smidgeon on the hills but anyone suggesting that 'it's cheaper just to take a shoot/not bring a water bottle/go on a diet is entirely missing the point or just jealous. Obviously if your BMI is over 30 then I'd say hold off on the wheels and cut some weight, but if you're under BMI 25 or thereabouts then go for it!

Also don't forget about running lighter tires, some plastcky OEM tires weigh up to 400g each, whereas 25mm Conti Gp4000S2s are only a dab over 200g, saving you nearly 400g off the wheels if you haven't done so already.

I'm thinking about the Dt Swiss Dicut RR 21for my Everesting bike, I've always been a fan of their hubs. I've had Fulcrums before but I haven't been totally blown away by the longevity compared to their sister company Campagnolo.

BMI is bollox. Are you suggesting anyone with a muscular build that puts them in the obese category is actually obese? Jona Lomu for instance was grossly obese if you go by BMI. Waist to height ratio is what the BMC are now advocating. Your waist should not be more than your height halved in CMs, inches or lengths of string if that is what you use to measure.

As for not losing weight because it makes cycling not enjoyable; seriously? If you're just doing it for kicks, why undertake a major ride through arduous conditions. Just poodle around the local flats eating cake. Undertaking a ride in the mountains implies a want to give yourself a beasting and test yourself and in which case, lose some weight.

mrb123

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Nobody is born with a 'rugby build' - that's just a convenient excuse, no offence.

I don't expect you to agree but I've have to disagree with your comment. That's not to say that the OP couldn't lose some weight but of course we are genetically predisposed to have certain body shapes. You don't see siblings where one person is tall and wirey and another who is equally lean but built like an out-house, for instance (at least not naturally).

It's called somatotyping.

Some of us are ectomorphs, some are endomorphs, some are mesomorphs, many are somewhere between the three extremes.

JesseD

Imposter wrote:

JesseD wrote:

My build goes against me on the uphills, I am more of a rugby player shape than a climber, genetics etc have not been kind to me for my chosen sport,

Nobody is born with a 'rugby build' - that's just a convenient excuse, no offence. Unless you have any kind of diagnosed weight management issue, then you still have the option is losing considerably more from your body than you can reasonably spend on losing it from the bike.

I take the point about maybe not wanting to use a set of wheels that are near the end of their lifespan to descend in the mountains, but within reason whatever wheelset you select will not give you any significant advantage/disadvantage.

If you want new wheels, then go for it, but don't pretend they'll give you some kind of significant climbing benefit.

Are you serious?

Firstly you have no right to pass judgement on my weight based on never having met me, you have no idea what my personal circumstances are with regards to my weight and i didnt ask for your opinion on it. I posted in the Road Buying Advice forum and get weight management advice - amazing.

For all you know I could have a diagnosed weight problem, you have no idea of my fat %, or my circumstances, so I have no idea why you feel qualified to pass judgement on my weight.

I am not asking for justification to buy a new set of wheels nor your advice on if I should or should not buy a set, I actually asked for advice on which wheels I should potentially buy to take on a holiday to the mountains, so if you have nothing constructive to contribute to the actual question asked then don't comment.

Honestly makes me laugh, some people grow a set when they are behind a keyboard.

fenix

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra ... 60584147uk

Sorted. Half of your budget too. They've been fine for when i was 82kg. Never describe myself as rugby build though ? Are you 5 foot maybe ?

sloppyschleckonds

philthy3 wrote:

Just poodle around the local flats eating cake.

Pootle

JesseD

Touch under 6ft, used to do a lot of weights and swimming when i was younger so have broad shoulders and big chest and arms and since coming back to cycling my legs have grown as well, seem to put muscle on very quickly but it takes a while to lose it from my upper body, I have shrunk 2 inches on my chest over the past year or so, but it takes time and i doubt i will lose that much more by the time September comes around.

Don't do weights any more, just ride and core work, just naturally heavy?

Saw the Shimano wheels and they are in the mix, wanted something wider so i could run lower pressures in the tires, am thinking the handbuilt option maybe the way to go as some of the rim options out there and that have been suggested above look like they could fit the bill.

meanredspider

Fenix wrote:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-6800-wheelset/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360584147&kpid=5360584147&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid|sFYWtvvAV_dc|pcrid|67090789142|pkw||pmt||prd|5360584147uk

Sorted. Half of your budget too. They've been fine for when i was 82kg. Never describe myself as rugby build though ? Are you 5 foot maybe ?

I've gotta say that I have two sets of RS80s (standard and C50) I use for the Foil (and a set I used to have on the Cayo- until a friend had it nicked) and, not only are they infinitely nicer than the RS10s both the Cayo and the Variado came on, they've all stayed absolutely true from the factory. At 6' and, currently a very-out-of-shape 95kg ("a small rugby player that's let himself go after retiring" build ) the wheels have served me perfectly well over a range of surfaces.

Despite my weight, there is something much nicer about climbing steep hills on light wheels - there feels like there's much less inertia. The greatest difference though is in the quality of the ride - RS10s feel really harsh.

imposter2.0

JesseD wrote:

Imposter wrote:

JesseD wrote:

My build goes against me on the uphills, I am more of a rugby player shape than a climber, genetics etc have not been kind to me for my chosen sport,

Nobody is born with a 'rugby build' - that's just a convenient excuse, no offence. Unless you have any kind of diagnosed weight management issue, then you still have the option is losing considerably more from your body than you can reasonably spend on losing it from the bike.

I take the point about maybe not wanting to use a set of wheels that are near the end of their lifespan to descend in the mountains, but within reason whatever wheelset you select will not give you any significant advantage/disadvantage.

If you want new wheels, then go for it, but don't pretend they'll give you some kind of significant climbing benefit.

Are you serious?

Firstly you have no right to pass judgement on my weight based on never having met me, you have no idea what my personal circumstances are with regards to my weight and i didnt ask for your opinion on it. I posted in the Road Buying Advice forum and get weight management advice - amazing.

For all you know I could have a diagnosed weight problem, you have no idea of my fat %, or my circumstances, so I have no idea why you feel qualified to pass judgement on my weight.

I am not asking for justification to buy a new set of wheels nor your advice on if I should or should not buy a set, I actually asked for advice on which wheels I should potentially buy to take on a holiday to the mountains, so if you have nothing constructive to contribute to the actual question asked then don't comment.

Honestly makes me laugh, some people grow a set when they are behind a keyboard.

You were the one who first mentioned your weight and build, not me. And if you read what I said a bit more carefully, I haven't judged you either. Having said that, and notwithstanding MRS's comments on predisposition, nobody is predisposed to being over-weight as such, unless there is some underlying medical issue. Whether you are, or not, is another matter.

I don't mind saying it again though, a few hundred grammes in the mountains is going to make no significant difference to your climbing. The fact that you refer to them as 'climbing wheels' suggests you don't really understand that. Don't let that stop you from buying new wheels - just don't use it as justification is all I'm saying.

Bobbinogs

Just buy some Zonda C17s and be done with it. Hubs can be easily serviced and they are light (ish) and stiff. Rim width is bang on trend too so matched with some nice tyres (Schwalbe Ones, Corsa G+ or GP4000IIs) and bob's your uncle...or your fat aunt, depending on how they are predisposed.

fenix

I think those shimano go up to 28mm tyres anyway.

I can see a market for tyres getting wider and wider with the crappy tarmac we have now.

By 2117 we'll all be on Fatty Tyres.

JesseD

Imposter - If you read my initial question I mentioned weight in relation to wheels being strong enough to carry my weight and not that I have to lose any, after all this is not a slimming world forum. The mention of weight is merely to give all the facts as there would be no point in someone recommending me a wheelset with a low max weight limit, so in that context it is relevant.

My point is I asked for wheel recommendations, so based on that I would expect a response (as many have given) that I should consider wheel A or wheel B, after all this is the part of the forum about buying parts for your bike, however the advice you have decided to give (which wasn’t asked for) is you need to lose weight, and wheels won’t make a difference.

Also have a read back, I have never mentioned climbing wheels, I asked for recommendations for wheels for the mountains, and said that weight and rim width were a priority as was a wheel strong enough to take a rider at just over 80kg so I don’t quite get your comments about me not understanding that?

As for justification, I don’t need any and that was never implied, I have already decided I wanted new wheels to take to Spain and was asking for recommendations form the users of the forums as to which ones would suit, I have done a fair bit of research but there are a lot of knowledgeable folk on here who may be able to recommend something I had not considered or did not know about.


Bobbings – Yes my aunt is fat and no she doesn’t ride a bike, I will however take a closer look at the Zonda’s, was always a bit put off Campag wheels because of the link to Fulcrum, aren’t the build quality the same?

Svetty – The Pacenti Forza look very interesting I will ask my LBS about them and check prices etc. The Al33 rims look good too, especially with the ceramic brake track, but as you say availability looks like it could be a non-starter plus what happens if they go wrong??

UGO – based on your post you are a bit fitter than I am it seems, I’ll stick with my 36 x 28 I think. Those Spada wheels look good but a little over budget. Looked at your ride stats, that looks like a good day out to me, just looked at the gradients on the mountain in the middle of your ride and there are some pretty steep sections in there - chapeau

vinnymarsden

How has a genuine q about wheels for hills turned into a personal attack on the OP about his supposed weight issues!!
This forum, and to be honest many like it are becoming inundated with keyboard warriors who feel the need to snipe at anyone who may actually be asking a simple CYCLING related question!
The OP could be a real lardy lad or not..it makes no difference does it..he asked a genuine q...Jesus, give the guy a break!
For what it's worth to the OP i'm same weight, and I use Fulcrum Racing Zero's...totally utterly bombproof and really light considering their construction.. if you just want them for the hill trip there;s always a few pairs on the bay..or being morbidly obese you could just simply give up the cycling altogether!!!!

singleton

I have riding buddies with multiple sets of wheels but they end up confused over which set to take for a specific days riding - e.g. today we will go uphill and downhill, there will also be some flat sections and a few cross winds.....

I went with these and find them great for all conditions and courses: https://www.huntbikewheels.com/collecti ... eep-24wide

robbo2011

JesseD wrote:

Are you serious?

Firstly you have no right to pass judgement on my weight based on never having met me, you have no idea what my personal circumstances are with regards to my weight and i didnt ask for your opinion on it. I posted in the Road Buying Advice forum and get weight management advice - amazing.

For all you know I could have a diagnosed weight problem, you have no idea of my fat %, or my circumstances, so I have no idea why you feel qualified to pass judgement on my weight.

I am not asking for justification to buy a new set of wheels nor your advice on if I should or should not buy a set, I actually asked for advice on which wheels I should potentially buy to take on a holiday to the mountains, so if you have nothing constructive to contribute to the actual question asked then don't comment.

Honestly makes me laugh, some people grow a set when they are behind a keyboard.

The trouble is, he is correct, if a bit blunt.

But anyway, If I was buying a set of wheels for the mountains, I would look at Tune hubs with Ryde Pulse sprint rims (with CSS treatment) and CX Ray spokes. You could get a build of those at <1350g.

But boring old Kysrium Pro wheels would also be a good option, stiff and light enough.

imposter2.0

VinnyMarsden wrote:

How has a genuine q about wheels for hills turned into a personal attack on the OP about his supposed weight issues!!

Answer = it hasn't. It has only become that if you wilfully misinterpret what has been written.

ugo.santalucia

JesseD wrote:

UGO – based on your post you are a bit fitter than I am it seems, I’ll stick with my 36 x 28 I think. Those Spada wheels look good but a little over budget. Looked at your ride stats, that looks like a good day out to me, just looked at the gradients on the mountain in the middle of your ride and there are some pretty steep sections in there - chapeau

You make do with what you've got... I decided to take my 1980s bike with me and leave it here in Italy with my parents... first few days I found it hard, as I am used to have a comfy 36 x 32 for climbs like that, but I am getting used... it's a bit of a grind above 10%, but I get up eventually... and I don't enjoy it less because of it...

Admittedly I had planned to do a climb which is 6 km at 12% and scrapped the idea as it's a bit too steep for this bike...

Heavier wheels won't stop you going anywhere, as I said earlier, it's just a matter of where you rank on the KOM classification