Titanium Road bike frames?

AircraftHandler1979

Guys as previously posted about spending 2500 on a road bike i'm thinking about getting a bike built for me as i have a good enough wheel set to use.

The bike shop mentioned to me about titanium frames so i'm wondering about the pro's & con's with these.

i know they will be significantly heavier than carbon but the ride is meant to be so much more comfier?

Any advice gladly taken.

Cheers

djhep

Hi....
I've just bought myself a new titanium frame to build up a winter / bad weather bike.
I'm expecting it to be around a kilo or so heavier than my carbon even with mudguards etc, so not a massive difference.
Others here can give you very good advice on the pro's and cons.

What wheels/tyres do you have?.
I'm currently looking for a set that will be comfortable, fast and light. (guess I may have to settle for 2 out of 3).
Has anyone got any good recommendations? Price not too much of an issue for the right wheels.

Anyhow, good luck in the search for your next bike

Dave.

banditvic

I have had about 6 different Titanium framed bikes, wouldn't say any of them are more comfortable than a good Carbon frame.
Good point,they look good, hold their value well over time.
Bad points, heavier.
I still have a Picknflick which is a great ride, but if your going out with the lads your going to need Carbon to keep up (if that's your thing)
Still think most people buy on looks, I did.

sloppyschleckonds

djhep wrote:

I'm expecting it to be around a kilo or so heavier than my carbon

I'd expect it to be 2-3 kg heavier

AircraftHandler1979

djhep wrote:

Hi....
I've just bought myself a new titanium frame to build up a winter / bad weather bike.
I'm expecting it to be around a kilo or so heavier than my carbon even with mudguards etc, so not a massive difference.
Others here can give you very good advice on the pro's and cons.

What wheels/tyres do you have?.
I'm currently looking for a set that will be comfortable, fast and light. (guess I may have to settle for 2 out of 3).
Has anyone got any good recommendations? Price not too much of an issue for the right wheels.

Anyhow, good luck in the search for your next bike

Dave.

Hi Dave,

i have Stans no tubes alpha 400's with hope RS4 hubs. Really good wheel set and made hell of a difference to the factory fitted Giant wheels

AircraftHandler1979

banditvic wrote:

I have had about 6 different Titanium framed bikes, wouldn't say any of them are more comfortable than a good Carbon frame.
Good point,they look good, hold their value well over time.
Bad points, heavier.
I still have a Picknflick which is a great ride, but if your going out with the lads your going to need Carbon to keep up (if that's your thing)
Still think most people buy on looks, I did.

I'm doing Sportives so thinking that a Carbon Frame would be better to reach my goals with timings,etc??

bondurant

How much time do you think this carbon frame will save you?

If you want to go faster, a well fitted frame that puts you in a decent position, allied to doing some training, will make you quicker. What the frame is made of and how much it weighs is almost immaterial compared to these things.

arlowood

AircraftHandler1979 wrote:

]

I'm doing Sportives so thinking that a Carbon Frame would be better to reach my goals with timings,etc??

My advice - keep the thread on message. You've had a 2 page thread running on suggestions for carbon bikes. Leave people to add to that thread if they think they have a carbon option to suggest.

Don't have any direct experience of comparing Ti frames with carbon but comments I have seen are that Ti is a bit more compliant than a high end carbon frame so the ride quality will be "different". Whether it is the ride characteristics that you want is another matter. Many on here rave about their Ti bikes compared to other carbon frames that they have ridden but it is all a bit subjective. As said above, a Ti frame will be heavier but if it fits you well and is kitted out appropriately you won't notice any real difference.

Some tasty options to consider

http://burls.co.uk/index.php

http://www.enigmabikes.com/bikes/endurance/enigma-echo/

AircraftHandler1979

arlowood wrote:

AircraftHandler1979 wrote:

]

I'm doing Sportives so thinking that a Carbon Frame would be better to reach my goals with timings,etc??

My advice - keep the thread on message. You've had a 2 page thread running on suggestions for carbon bikes. Leave people to add to that thread if they think they have a carbon option to suggest.

Don't have any direct experience of comparing Ti frames with carbon but comments I have seen are that Ti is a bit more compliant than a high end carbon frame so the ride quality will be "different". Whether it is the ride characteristics that you want is another matter. Many on here rave about their Ti bikes compared to other carbon frames that they have ridden but it is all a bit subjective. As said above, a Ti frame will be heavier but if it fits you well and is kitted out appropriately you won't notice any real difference.

Some tasty options to consider

http://burls.co.uk/index.php

http://www.enigmabikes.com/bikes/endurance/enigma-echo/

Hi thanks for the advice and will take a look now.

Matthewfalle

banditvic wrote:

I have had about 6 different Titanium framed bikes, wouldn't say any of them are more comfortable than a good Carbon frame.
Good point,they look good, hold their value well over time.
Bad points, heavier.
I still have a Picknflick which is a great ride, but if your going out with the lads your going to need Carbon to keep up (if that's your thing)
Still think most people buy on looks, I did.

utter bilge.

964cup

A good, race geometry Ti frame will perform very competitively alongside carbon, unless you're looking for ultimate weight saving. The frame itself will be somewhere between 400 and 700g heavier than carbon; the fork can of course be the same on both bikes. Ti frames absorb road imperfections better than most carbon frames (I've not tried the Domane and other "suspended" frames). Ti will not be aero, as the tubes need to be large diameter for stiffness and (Lynskey Helix aside) tend to be conventional round shapes. You may or may not care about this.

I have 11 road bikes. If I was forced (heaven forbid) to keep just one, it would be my Enigma Excel Ti. It's about 2.5kg heavier than my lightest carbon bike (7.7kg vs 5.2kg - but over a kilo of that is wheels) but it's about 1.2kg lighter than my full aero carbon bike (8.9kg). I've done long (250km) rides on it as well as fast club runs and park laps and I've commuted on it. As a one bike to do it all, it's peerless IMO.

antonyfromoz

Matthewfalle wrote:

banditvic wrote:

I have had about 6 different Titanium framed bikes, wouldn't say any of them are more comfortable than a good Carbon frame.
Good point,they look good, hold their value well over time.
Bad points, heavier.
I still have a Picknflick which is a great ride, but if your going out with the lads your going to need Carbon to keep up (if that's your thing)
Still think most people buy on looks, I did.

utter bilge.

Have to agree with Mathew on this one - I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard - Enigma for example quote frame weights for their frames from less than 1400 grams and these are not designed to be as light as possible. If that difference is going to stop you keeping up with your mates then only ride with one bottle of water...or train more. There are obviously different designs and intended uses for the various frames available, as there are with carbon, so just choose one that suits, fits and feels right.

peteco

I built up a Van Nicholas Ventus.

I bought the frame because I love the looks. I have no doubt I could have built a lighter bike cheaper with very similar handling characteristics using a decent carbon frame, but that wasn't what I wanted.

How fast you go is mostly down to the engine i.e. you.

Pete

sloppyschleckonds

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

letap73

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Boardman Titanium - 9.0kg

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/pro ... i-9.2.html

Cannondale Synapse -9.0kg

https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale- ... e-EV239405

antonyfromoz

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Now, considering your claim that the difference would be 2 to 3 kilos heavier apparently on the basis of the frame alone, I am happy to point to some examples: The Van Nicholas Chinook has a frame weight of 1.54 kg in a size 54 and 1.59 in a size 56 https://www.vannicholas.com/road-bikes/chinook. With Ultegra and Mavic Aksiums it weighs 8.35 kg according to FatBird's website. It was tested at size 56 with SRAM Force in 2016 at a weight of 7.8 kgs http://road.cc/content/review/164526-va ... -road-bike. The Specialized Tarmac tested in 2016 with Ultegra was at a weight of 8.04kgs http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... omp-50300/. There are plenty of other examples if you look at Enigma, litespeed or other manufacturers. Of course, there are lighter carbon frames than the Tarmac with quite a few under the 1kg mark now as there are lighter titanium frames - Litespeed even make a titanium frame with a weight of 1150 grams - so you would certainly not be looking at a difference of 2 -3kgs on the weight difference of the frame alone. A good carbon bike will probably be lighter depending on the build but the difference is not so great really - and some of the more aero carbon bikes seem to weigh similar or more than titanium. It's interesting that the titanium manufacturers seem to be happy to include their frame weights in their product descriptions while it can be very hard to find the frame weights of a lot of carbon bikes unless they are at the very light end of their ranges.

gweeds

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

djhep wrote:

I'm expecting it to be around a kilo or so heavier than my carbon

I'd expect it to be 2-3 kg heavier

Behave.

tomisitt

My Spin Spitfire Ti frame weighs 1400g, complete bike with Campag Chorus and Archetype wheels weighs 7.4kg. The thing I like about Ti is the almost imperceptible spring from it, the gorgeous finish, and its ability to withstand me throwing it up the road from time to time.

shortfall

To the OP. Getting a modern steel or Ti frame built for you by a reputable maker is a sensible idea. Having something that fits you perfectly and is built for your specific requirements is by orders of magnitude better for your cycling performance than simply buying a carbon frame weighing a few hundred grammes less. The idea that all your mates will be dropping you because your bike weighs half a kilo more is drivel. On the ride characteristics of Ti, they are often overplayed by owners and tyre and wheel choice play a bigger part in how a bike rides in my experience, however titanium does have a distinct feel that is very different to carbon and is very satisfying to ride (remember though that ti frames can be made to be very whippy or incredibly harsh, it's down to frame design angles and tube diameter). As for looks that's very subjective, but who wants another Trek?

froze

I've had mostly steel bikes for the last 40 years, with one side trip when I tried a scandium frame which rode like a brick and the frame cracked at the top of the headtube after only about 8,000 miles which Ridley said was due to fatigue and thus no warranty...fatigue after 8,000 miles and 2 years of use, hmm. About 5 years ago I ran into 2 guys who had TI bikes, one was an expensive Serotta and the other a bargain basement Motobecane from Bikes Direct, I rode those several times, they were both great bikes, the Serrota was a bit more comfortable due to the swayed rear stays. So after riding those I got the bug to buy a new bike, so in 2011 I started searching for a new bike that would last me till I'm 100 years old and wanted something different than steel which I can ride anytime because I have several.

I tried a bunch of carbon fiber bikes and never found one I liked because I've been spoiled riding steel for 40 years and then the TI bikes which I thought were a bit better riding than the steel ones. So for the crazy price of the Motobecane I went to buy one but they were out of stock, so I waited, and waited, a year and half went by and the online store never got them so I started searching for alternative low cost TI bike, and that's when in 2013 I discovered the Lynskey Peloton (now called the R140 I believe), so without ever even riding one I ordered it because it was on a introductory sale price. My first ride on the bike I knew I had made the best decision, this bike was more comfortable than all my steel bikes I have (well the steel touring bike I have rides darn close to the TI when loaded, maybe a tad better), and more comfortable than any CF bike I tried with one exception the Specialized CF bikes with the Zertz inserts in the rear stays and the fork, that bike was comfortable but the bike felt dead to me with too little road feel which gives less feedback to the rider when you reach the bike and tires limits.

Long story short. I happen to like TI a lot, but like anything everyone is different, the reasons I didn't like CF you may like CF for those same reasons, you just have to ride them and see. I did realize something with that TI bike, I had to have lower back fusion about 1 years prior to getting the bike, when riding any bike for a long ride that area of my back would start to ache, but on the TI bike it didn't ache at all. Now of course since 6 years have gone by since I had the surgery my back has had more time to heal I can ride my steel bikes or any other bike without issues with my back, but the point is there was a degree of comfort with the TI bike that was making itself known to me.

imposter2.0

AircraftHandler1979 wrote:

I'm doing Sportives so thinking that a Carbon Frame would be better to reach my goals with timings,etc??

Frame material is not going to make any difference to your speed.

sloppyschleckonds

letap73 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Boardman Titanium - 9.0kg

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/pro ... i-9.2.html

Cannondale Synapse -9.0kg

https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale- ... e-EV239405

Here's a Canyon weighing in at 7kg, for half the price of the Boardman

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... l-9-0.html

First.Aspect

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

letap73 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Boardman Titanium - 9.0kg

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/pro ... i-9.2.html

Cannondale Synapse -9.0kg

https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale- ... e-EV239405

Here's a Canyon weighing in at 7kg, for half the price of the Boardman

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... l-9-0.html

Yes, but Canyon bikes don't actually exist. You just pay for order status updates and jpegs.

sloppyschleckonds

tomisitt wrote:

My Spin Spitfire Ti frame weighs 1400g,

What size is it and does that include forks?

antonyfromoz

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

letap73 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Boardman Titanium - 9.0kg

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/pro ... i-9.2.html

Cannondale Synapse -9.0kg

https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale- ... e-EV239405

Here's a Canyon weighing in at 7kg, for half the price of the Boardman

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... l-9-0.html

mmmm, so that's 800 grams lighter than the Chinook i linked to earlier but with much lighter wheels and a carbon seat post, just proves my point really. When you think about it, if a titanium frame is less than 1.6kgs then the difference between that bike and a carbon bike cannot possibly be 2 to 3 kgs based on the frame alone no matter how many light bikes you might send links to... Litespeed had a model, now discontinued, that had a frame weight of just over 700 grams so light titanium is possible but it is not the ultimate goal of most frame builders using titanium.

shortfall

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

letap73 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Boardman Titanium - 9.0kg

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/pro ... i-9.2.html

Cannondale Synapse -9.0kg

https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale- ... e-EV239405

Here's a Canyon weighing in at 7kg, for half the price of the Boardman

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... l-9-0.html

Carbon wins on weight, nobody is disputing that (although I question your 2-3kg figure). The debate is how much of a difference the pound or two between equivalent ti and carbon bikes makes to the ordinary punter. The OP has 2.5 k to spend and is interested in titanium. There are many good reasons why he should buy a titanium frame or even better have one custom built, and for most people the ride characteristics, individuality, aesthetics, strength, corrosion resistance and robustness and longevity trump the almost meaningless weight penalty over carbon. For those who value lightness above other considerations there is a slew of carbon bikes to choose from, and many of them are probably excellent and will serve their owners well. Weighing less than steel, aluminium or titanium doesn't automatically make them better though which is surely the point of the thread?

letap73

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

letap73 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

I would expect a titanium framed bike with similar components to be probably less than 500 grams heavier than a carbon bike of a similar standard

Can you post some examples then please

Boardman Titanium - 9.0kg

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/pro ... i-9.2.html

Cannondale Synapse -9.0kg

https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale- ... e-EV239405

Here's a Canyon weighing in at 7kg, for half the price of the Boardman

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... l-9-0.html

Errr. I answered your question on two equivalent bikes with similar components, standard and price point. Great that the canyon which is not a directly equivalent bike is such great value - still does not deflect from the point I made.

964cup

What is the point of posting complete bikes? Most of the weight of a bike is in the finishing kit. Cheap wheels and tyres will weigh more than the frameset, for a start. The difference between a set of RS010s with wire-beaded clinchers and butyl tubes (about 2,780g) and a set of AX Lightness Ultra24T tubulars with Veloflex Record (1,225g iincluding tape) is 1,556g on its own. That *difference* is more than my Excel frame weighs.

Spend enough money and you can build a Ti bike that's lighter than almost all carbon bikes. Here's a sub-6kg Ti build: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 0#p1279564
and here's one at 6.1kg: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 0&t=144117

It's totally f**king irrelevant. What matters is how Ti rides compared to other frame materials, and whether you like that.

gweeds

I think we're all agreed that for all other elements kf a build being equal (wheels, groupset etc) it's absolutely nonsense to claim that a Ti bike will end up 2-3kh g heavier than a carbon one.

svetty

Most Ti framesets are built with a least one eye on comfort and endurance. There are relatively few out-and-out race geometry stiff Ti framesets. If you want a stiff, race geometry frame you have more choice in carbon - and this is likely to be a smidgen lighter. If you are OK with an endurance, all day comfort bike the Ti has a lot going for it (but there are a lot of carbon frames that do this excellently too).

Disclaimer: I have both Ti and carbon framed bikes.....

londoncommuter

Maybe just speaking for myself here but titanium appealed as a) it's cool b) I like bikes and c) value for money wasn't the primary driver.

If I only had room or budget for one bike, and the budget wasn't huge, then carbon is loads better as you can get a complete mid range bike with decent kit that will still be light for the same price as a ti frame.

I was surprised though by the number of ti frames out there without proper mudguard clearance/fittings as I initially thought that was most of the market, for year round bikes.