What about doping in non-competitive amateur sport?

chrisaonabike
chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
I was reading this thread, and I started wondering about the ethics issues, if any, relating to using PEDs as a non-competitor.

It came up in my mind because I'm in my 50s, and acutely aware of the way I just don't heal like I used to.

I get a persistently sore neck if I cycle too far, or too often (much more than 15 miles, a couple of times a week); if I run even short distances I get shin splints and calf strains.

It massively erodes my enjoyment of the activities, and prevents me getting as fit as I'd like. I have no intention of racing or competing at all, I just want to have more of a chance to enjoy the fresh air without pain.

Would a little testosterone make me heal quicker? Maybe even on prescription, although I don't think I have clinically low testosterone.

Would it be ethical to use PEDs, or even possible to without causing other risks to health?

Part of me says I wouldn't be hurting anyone, and I'd get out a lot more if it worked; yet part of me would still feel like I was cheating, albeit not in any actual competition.

Thoughts?
Is the gorilla tired yet?

Comments

  • jlloyd
    jlloyd Posts: 131
    Mate, you're not that old.

    I'd be thinking physio before any form of PEDS
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    JLloyd wrote:
    Mate, you're not that old.

    I'd be thinking physio before any form of PEDS
    Yeah I know, right. I have tried physio. I've had a bike fit. I think I just have crap genes :)
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • In America there is a whole industry aimed at those seeking to reverse the effects of ageing in order to enhance their physical capacities.
    THAT'S WHAT LED ME, a few weeks later, to Dr. Jones. He was an internist by training and a specialist in the hot new field of anti-aging medicine, which involves helping people—who are always affluent, since these treatments are expensive—try to stave off the effects of growing old with a combination of nutrition and drugs, including HGH, steroids, and testosterone. A doctor I knew had tipped me off, with a wink, that Dr. Jones also used these drugs to "work with a lot of athletes."
    https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    ^^ Thanks, I've read through it quickly; it's fascinating.

    The HGH and testosterone appeal; I like the idea of healing quicker and getting better eyesight. I have four different strength reading glasses these days - +1 for computer work, +1.5 for reading books, +2 for when I'm tired and in artificial light, and +3 for super close work.

    Steroids not so much :)
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    ^^ Thanks, I've read through it quickly; it's fascinating.

    The HGH and testosterone appeal; I like the idea of healing quicker and getting better eyesight. I have four different strength reading glasses these days - +1 for computer work, +1.5 for reading books, +2 for when I'm tired and in artificial light, and +3 for super close work.

    Steroids not so much :)

    Testosterone is a steroid.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ^^ Thanks, I've read through it quickly; it's fascinating.

    The HGH and testosterone appeal; I like the idea of healing quicker and getting better eyesight. I have four different strength reading glasses these days - +1 for computer work, +1.5 for reading books, +2 for when I'm tired and in artificial light, and +3 for super close work.

    Steroids not so much :)

    Testosterone is a steroid.
    Yes, I know, a naturally occurring one.

    I meant anabolic steroids.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Doping for non-competitive amateur sport? Who gives a fck. Fill yer boots. Although a trip to a psychiatrist might also be appropriate if your life is genuinely that empty.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Imposter wrote:
    Doping for non-competitive amateur sport? Who gives a fck. Fill yer boots. Although a trip to a psychiatrist might also be appropriate if your life is genuinely that empty.
    Yes, thanks for your usual empathic terseness, and for confirming that you have nothing to contribute to this thread.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Just don't be a British Cycling member, as even if you don't plan to compete you can still be tested under WADA rules. Like this guy was. http://road.cc/content/news/209429-amat ... doping-ban

    If you have a doctor's prescription and you don't compete, you'd probably be fine (and many drugs are ok out of competition anyway) but if someone grassed you up you might just be banned and that means from your club, BC, sportives, etc. UKADA's reach is quite wide, when you read the fine print.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    I think you'd be better off addressing the issues behind the sore neck etc. Post a side on picture of you on your bike and see if people have suggestions ?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    maryka wrote:
    Just don't be a British Cycling member, as even if you don't plan to compete you can still be tested under WADA rules. Like this guy was. http://road.cc/content/news/209429-amat ... doping-ban
    .

    ANtidoping gone mad... :lol:
    left the forum March 2023
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Imposter wrote:
    Doping for non-competitive amateur sport? Who gives a fck. Fill yer boots. Although a trip to a psychiatrist might also be appropriate if your life is genuinely that empty.
    Yes, thanks for your usual empathic terseness, and for confirming that you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

    mate - if you're not competing, you could be a crack addict and nobody would care (leaving the criminal legality issues aside). Doping is (rightly) banned in competition. But if you're not competing, it is seriously irrelevant. The Edmonds case is absurd, and his subsequent ban is also meaningless. At the end of the day though, it's down to you. Incidentally, doping and steroid use are not the same thing.
  • paul2718
    paul2718 Posts: 471
    I think you need to look into why you struggle with pain when riding more than 15 miles a couple of times a week. Otherwise if you cover it up with potions you will simply be doing yourself more harm with less warning.

    There's no ethical issue in medicating yourself however you choose.

    Paul
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    paul2718 wrote:
    I think you need to look into why you struggle with pain when riding more than 15 miles a couple of times a week. Otherwise if you cover it up with potions you will simply be doing yourself more harm with less warning.

    There's no ethical issue in medicating yourself however you choose.

    Paul

    Yup... as above...
    Less creating nonsense on a forum and decide what you are going to do about cycling more than 15 miles painfree.
    If you are saying your bike fits perfectly - that's dandy... can't be that then , can it?
    Maybe your id just hates cycling or switch disciplines from road to mtb?
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    JGSI wrote:
    If you are saying your bike fits perfectly - that's dandy... can't be that then , can it?

    what I don't get with bike fits, is they can check you fit the bike, your joints are all in line with each other blah blah blah ... but it doesn't allow for prolonged usage in that position.

    ie .... I can sit on my bike, in the drops, knees lined up with the cranks, elbows at 90 degrees, slight curvature to the back, not too bent up, ...ohhh comfortable .... but then 20 mins in the drops and my flexibility says, nah, lets ride on the hoods now for a while.

    why ? .... I am just not that fit or flexible yet, I can only spend a few hours on the bike before I ache

    Same with running .... I can run 5k no probs - up it to 10k and I start to get shin splints, reason - too much too soon.

    your answer is probably not to look for a magic pill that makes you flexible and fit, but to put the work in ..... don't hit the drugs, hit the yoga mat, hit the foam roller, hit the gym, cycle a small amount every single day, run a short distance and walk the rest and slowely increase the running bit.

    you are a not a special genetic snowflake .. you are just a beginner .. build up slowely, and do more in smaller amounts
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Yes some good advice here. Train smart, get fit. Find out whether there are underlying physiological reasons for neck pain. Deal with...
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Thanks for all the comments, guys, terse and otherwise :)

    I could certainly do with more yoga/stretching/foam roller etc, and I'll take those points on board.

    Who knows whether the bike is set up perfectly - I've changed nothing since I had the bike fit (with the Bike Whisperer when he was still in Ealing), and the neck problems have been getting steadily worse over the last two years. Maybe I should have another bike fit.

    The first two years of road cycling I did the RL100 twice (2013 and 2014), with plenty of long training rides along the way. But the deterioration since then has been fairly steady.

    All that aside, there's a ton of research into anti-ageing drugs. Even a few days ago there was another trial in the news.

    It's only a matter of time before they solve the problems, and as time goes by there will be more and more people wanting to put off the effects of ageing, and more and more successful treatments as the biochemistry of senescence is better understood. The rich will get them first, obviously, but the effects will trickle down to sport eventually.

    Anyone that thinks that wanting to live youthfully for longer, implies either an empty life or the need for a psychiatrist is lacking imagination at best.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    This is why I think BC needs to rethink its "cycling for all" approach and its attempt to supplant CTC (now Cycling UK) as the organisation that every cyclist should join. Its current regulation by UKADA extends to all members, including Ride and Fan (!!) which is just silly for non-competitive cyclists, as was mentioned upthread. The case with the guy importing testosterone was admittedly idiotic, his importing prohibited substances. But nonetheless UKADA seems to operate on a black-or-white basis with a lot of things relating to amateurs. So if someone with a grudge and a bit of knowledge or maybe even a few made-up lies sent them your way and if you then "failed" a doping test you weren't expecting (or refused as he did), the fallout from the publication of your name with a ban from sport, being kicked out of your club, etc. would not be fun. I would have said a year ago that that kind of situation was nigh on impossible but I'm not so sure now....
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Imposter wrote:
    Doping for non-competitive amateur sport? Who gives a fck. Fill yer boots. Although a trip to a psychiatrist might also be appropriate if your life is genuinely that empty.
    Yes, thanks for your usual empathic terseness, and for confirming that you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

    Best advice you've had so far bud!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,427
    I'm not convinced any of the things mentioned are age related. As others have said it's more your body needs to adapt to what you are doing.

    I've started running regularly recently and after originally getting 'shin splints' they went away as I ran more frequently. I then broke a toe and injured my Achilles meaning two months off, when I started back I tried to carry on where I'd left off and the shin problems came back. I couldn't shake them - I'd rest for weeks, they'd be OK for a few runs then play up again. I eventually saw a physio, had a few sessions of trigger point massage and ultrasound then rebuilt slowly and I've been fine ever since even after running hard or doing 20 miles. However, on those long runs my shoulders ache because they aren't used to be held in that position for so long. No doubt they'll adapt as I do more runs of that length. If I got on my bike now and rode 60 miles my fitness would be up to it but I know my neck will ache from the unnatural angle I'd be holding my head at. I'm mid 40s, by contrast many people I know in their 60s and 70s who ride several times a week wouldn't have any problem at all with their necks.
  • The idea that testosterone and HGH have any anti-ageing activity in normal middle aged men remains clinically unproven. There are also potentially serious side effects associated with their use. A couple of short bike rides a week should not be causing pain and what someone on a web forum calls a bike fit issue could actually be something more serious. You should see a doctor about your health issues.