Thoughts on these VO2 Max workouts?
broshaughnessy
Posts: 18
Comments
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Depends what you are trying to achieve..0
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I am going to guess an increased vo2max0
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Can you do them? The last one sounds hard0
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fat daddy wrote:I am going to guess an increased vo2max
Good insight. Presumably these aren't the only sessions he is doing in a week's training load though. And by 'achievements' I was really referring to what his overall objectives might be.0 -
Not enough recovery between reps imo for Vo2max, especially the last two. It will just turn into a threshold workout if you can't hold the watts.
I usually do a work:recovery of about 1:1 for Vo2max.0 -
No context, just like this one:
viewtopic.php?p=20075163#p200751630 -
broshaughnessy wrote:
a few things.
1. imo its far too much. 18? intervals.
2. are you planning to do no training for 2 days before and 2 after?
3. have you tried to do 8 sets at 120% for 3 each. i certainly cant.
theres no need to leave yourself in a body bag. just do enough work to get a good training effect and then recover for another day. its a long slow process0 -
poynedexter wrote:broshaughnessy wrote:
a few things.
1. imo its far too much. 18? intervals.
2. are you planning to do no training for 2 days before and 2 after?
3. have you tried to do 8 sets at 120% for 3 each. i certainly cant.
theres no need to leave yourself in a body bag. just do enough work to get a good training effect and then recover for another day. its a long slow process
Note the plural use of 'workout' in the title.0 -
[/quote]
Note the plural use of 'workout' in the title.[/quote]
one little s!!!!
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VO2 max is difficult to increase anyway I believe. Most of it i genetic with about 20% of the value that can respond a bit to training. I am saying this so if I am wrong someone can correct me.
What you might be doing is improving your lactate threshold but that set is not going to be nice or that useful for training. Maybe doing one of the pairs of set would be fine but not all three.
Although the OP did not suggest he was going to all three at once so benefit of the doubt.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
fat daddy wrote:I am going to guess an increased vo2max
You can't meaningfully increase VO2 max.. there will be humans who have never done sport in their life and they have 70 and others who train like mad men and have 50... it's 90% genetic and working on the remaining 10% seems a bit of a waste of timeleft the forum March 20230 -
But you can incease *power* at VO2max or the percentage of your VO2max you can work at. And tolerance to those workloads, both physical and mental.0
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maryka wrote:But you can incease *power* at VO2max or the percentage of your VO2max you can work at. And tolerance to those workloads, both physical and mental.
Yes, but that is different from increasing VO2 max, which can only be done with blood doping or possibly and for very limited periods of time with altitude training.
I suppose the future in genetic engineering... get the right gene from a horse or a gazelle and you might be in for a > 100left the forum March 20230 -
Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
Ugo, are you trying to win races?
This study was done with a cohort of already quite fit people and lasted 8 weeks. Do another 8 weeks of the 4 minute intervals... 10% starts to look quite significant.0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:maryka wrote:But you can incease *power* at VO2max or the percentage of your VO2max you can work at. And tolerance to those workloads, both physical and mental.
Yes, but that is different from increasing VO2 max, which can only be done with blood doping or possibly and for very limited periods of time with altitude training.
I suppose the future in genetic engineering... get the right gene from a horse or a gazelle and you might be in for a > 100
I already rub cheetah blood onto my legs. Suppose you're going to tell me I'm wasting my time.0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
The trial only lasted 8 weeks. Further increases over a longer training period may be possible so potentially there is more to be gained that the 7% quoted. I assume other trials might be out there.....FFS! Harden up and grow a pair
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Svetty wrote:
The trial only lasted 8 weeks. Further increases over a longer training period may be possible so potentially there is more to be gained that the 7% quoted. I assume other trials might be out there.....
It's pretty much cast in stone that you can change VO2 max very little... for big changes you need to look at doping... all the X-country skiers of the 90s had 80-90 mL/Kg min
I would always focus on power... that seems to be trainable and ultimately it's what you want... 10% more VO2 might not give you 10% more powerleft the forum March 20230 -
I was simply correcting your statement that one cannot meaningfully improve VO2max through training. One certainly can, as centenarian Robert Marchand demonstrated:ugo.santalucia wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
http://www.realclearscience.com/quick_a ... hlete.html
And one does not need to do "VO2max intervals" in order to improve VO2max.
I agree that one is far better to concentrate on improving power since it integrates all the underlying physiological components involved. That said, having some understanding of each component can be helpful to work out what one's training priorities should be, and/or what sort of training one should do and when.0 -
It was just a random sample of a study showing an increase in VO2max through training. Yes there are others.Svetty wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
The trial only lasted 8 weeks. Further increases over a longer training period may be possible so potentially there is more to be gained that the 7% quoted. I assume other trials might be out there.....
in general, training which is focused on lifting VO2max through hard aerobic intervals usually results in a plateau in VO2max response after 6-8 weeks, or at least further gains are very slow. Probably just as well as such training is very taxing both physically and mentally.0 -
Does it work though? Does it make donkeys into thoroughbreds?
If not, what a waste of time that could be spent enjoying life for a change and loving the fact that you can come 22nd in a race without disgrace.0 -
JGSI wrote:Does it work though? Does it make donkeys into thoroughbreds?
If not, what a waste of time that could be spent enjoying life for a change and loving the fact that you can come 22nd in a race without disgrace.
Blood doping supervised by someone who knows what he is doing does... I am going to Italy next month, so I was looking at climbs I could do that I have not done yet. I stumbled in the Colle San Carlo (might be too early in April, but nevermind)
https://www.strava.com/segments/731591
If you look back at the Giro 2006, Simoni and Basso climbed it in 34 minutes with a VAM of 1800 mt/h... that is without a bunch of domestiques.
Last year's Giro had a mountain time trial, 786 mt that Foliforov (or whatever his name is) climbed in about 28 minutes, with a VAM just short of 1700 mt/h, that is without any km in his legs...
100 mt/h, as I said earlier, do a bit of maths and you'll see it's minutes up one climb and many minutes up many climbs, it's the difference between being in yellow in Paris and being out of the top 10
Of course unsupervised doping might even make you slowerleft the forum March 20230 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
It was just a random sample of a study showing an increase in VO2max through training. Yes there are others.Svetty wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
The trial only lasted 8 weeks. Further increases over a longer training period may be possible so potentially there is more to be gained that the 7% quoted. I assume other trials might be out there.....
in general, training which is focused on lifting VO2max through hard aerobic intervals usually results in a plateau in VO2max response after 6-8 weeks, or at least further gains are very slow. Probably just as well as such training is very taxing both physically and mentally.
...back to the post!
Alex, would you suggest that vo2 declines faster and is harder to rebuild in an older rider?
for me, i ve found keeping some hi intensity over the winter training is of benefit, something i never bothered with until i hit my 40s.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
It was just a random sample of a study showing an increase in VO2max through training. Yes there are others.Svetty wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Increasing VO2max is indeed possible through training. The impact on VO2max of various training interventions is well documented in the scientific literature. Here's just one random example:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kj ... 493e9d.pdf
5-7%... so if one starts at 50 mL/Kg min, he could maybe get to 53... I suppose at the pinnacle of racing 5% is the difference between winning and losing, but if someone told me to train intervals until I feel sick so I can improve my VO2 max by 5%, I'l probably tell them to FO...
The trial only lasted 8 weeks. Further increases over a longer training period may be possible so potentially there is more to be gained that the 7% quoted. I assume other trials might be out there.....
in general, training which is focused on lifting VO2max through hard aerobic intervals usually results in a plateau in VO2max response after 6-8 weeks, or at least further gains are very slow. Probably just as well as such training is very taxing both physically and mentally.
...back to the post!
Alex, would you suggest that vo2 declines faster and is harder to rebuild in an older rider?
for me, i ve found keeping some hi intensity over the winter training is of benefit, something i never bothered with until i hit my 40s.0 -
On average, VO2max declines as we age. Improving VO2max through training will still work no matter how old we are (Marchand is a clear example of that), however as we age the need for recovery also tends to increase and so as a rule of thumb we find we require more time between hard bouts and hence are able to do less of the harder work overall. That said, the better your basic condition, the less trouble you'll likely have to rebuild.
Doing a little work that hits most intensity levels all the time is no bad thing. It's when you do dedicated blocks of work focused on higher intensity that we need to be more careful how and when and for how long we dose efforts.0 -
thanks Alex, v true on recovery, its easy to forget this and get fatigued.0
