Scottish Referendum - Part Deux

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Comments

  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    The options were quite plain the last time round, there was just lots of arguing and no real agreement
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,397
    HaydenM wrote:
    The options were quite plain the last time round, there was just lots of arguing and no real agreement
    I think there was general agreement that they were all sh1t. Just not on which one to polish.

    Option £ temporarily just means Euro or Scottish £groat later, no? So just delaying one or other of the options not even the SNP want.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    First Aspect wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    HaydenM wrote:
    I'm slightly more likely to vote Yes this time round but there are some pretty big issues to iron out which weren't last time such as the danger of pegging the currency to the pound and pretending it makes Scotland independent for instance.

    There are countries that are independent from the USA that have currency pegged to the dollar.
    Costa Rica, Venezuela and Zimbabwe?

    Awesome.

    What's wrong with Costa Rica???

    And Zimbabwe doesn't have it's own currency any more.

    I wouldn't expect Scotland to end up like Venezuela or Zimbabwe, perhaps you disagree.

    Bermuda, Barbados, UAE are other examples of currencies pegged to the USD.
  • RallyBiker
    RallyBiker Posts: 378
    PBlakeney wrote:
    What on earth are you lot talking about?
    Entry to the EU. The Euro. End of.

    It ain't going to happen though....EVER! Just remember the reaction NS got when she flew in to try and meet the EU movers and shakers. The doors just slammed in her face. She's a pariah to them as she just polarises the problems Spain and Belgium have with their counties. The Scottish public are starting to hate her for doing a crap job governing, the majority of whom don't agree with her indyref stance, so she's on borrowed time.
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    I have a slightly less bleak view about entry to the EU, it depends if their desperation to keep the EU together outweighs their dislike of separatist movements. Not sure if things have changed enough since Brexit.
    PBlakeney wrote:
    What on earth are you lot talking about?
    Entry to the EU. The Euro. End of.

    Even if we did join the EU, joining the euro isn't a simple process as it requires an existing currency to be using in their exchange rate mechanism for years leading up to it which we don't currently have. I'm sure there would be a way around that but still. The euro very has little support in business or government, if we were forced to take the euro I wonder whether it would be enough for people to drop the idea of trying to rejoin the EU after all? What did Yes voting Scots really want when they voted remain?

    Currency union with the UK is the favoured option and would potentially be best for Scotland but then I think a political union is best for Scotland too... Lots of people would disagree with me but I don't think it serves the ideological purpose of independence that a lot of the Yes voting public have
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,499
    Using the Euro is a prerequisite for Countries joining the EU. You can't campaign for independence based on joining the EU if you cannot join the EU.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Using the Euro is a prerequisite for Countries joining the EU. You can't campaign for independence based on joining the EU if you cannot join the EU.

    I agree, but it doesn't seem to stop them...
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,397
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
    That's a good idea. What currency would we use?

    This could go on a while.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
    That's a good idea. What currency would we use?

    This could go on a while.

    USD
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,397
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
    That's a good idea. What currency would we use?

    This could go on a while.

    USD
    :lol:
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,829
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    [url][/url]
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)

    Keep you nose out sassenach. You don't get a say in it!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,829
    Garry H wrote:
    [url][/url]
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)

    Keep you nose out sassenach. You don't get a say in it!
    Build that wall, build that wall...you and Pinno stuck on the other side, two for the price of one :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
    That's a good idea. What currency would we use?

    This could go on a while.

    USD
    :lol:

    Whilst my suggestion was in jest it was also a way of opening up debate. So why don't you spell out why it is a bad idea and any better or worse than a Scottish pound and if that would be pegged and if so to what?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,397
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
    That's a good idea. What currency would we use?

    This could go on a while.

    USD
    :lol:

    Whilst my suggestion was in jest it was also a way of opening up debate. So why don't you spell out why it is a bad idea and any better or worse than a Scottish pound and if that would be pegged and if so to what?
    I'm probably out of my depth at this stage. My understanding is that a currency pegged to another currency essentially is that other currency, in that there are none of the normal mechanisms open to a central bank to regulate it and inflation, interest rates, easing and wotnot are as out of your control as if you were using that other currency. Hence, its only ever supposed to be a currency stabilisation measure.

    So could it work as a precursor to an independent currency? Perhaps.

    Whatever happens, as soon as there is an independent currency, its cork on rough seas - which is uncomfortable compared to what we currently have. A big slip in your currency's value leads to spikes in inflation like we're experiencing now. Only, for the small country proportionally importing much more, those effects would be more marked. For businesses too, I imagine that stable is better than a fluctuating currency, even if the average is the same over time. All of which leads to a downward pressure on an economy in the long term.

    I confess I'm less clear on the practical implications of using someone else's currency or having a fixed exchange rate. Maybe someone could enlighten me. I can't help but notice that all of the countries that do this aren't doing too well, though. Perhaps this is coincidence, because of the reasons they ended up in that position in the first place.

    The Euro bothers me less, oddly enough, because firstly its exchange rate is stable and secondly although its a basket case, there's too much at stake for it to fail. Is that naïve?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Why not join EEA and make everybody happy?
    That's a good idea. What currency would we use?

    This could go on a while.

    USD
    :lol:

    Whilst my suggestion was in jest it was also a way of opening up debate. So why don't you spell out why it is a bad idea and any better or worse than a Scottish pound and if that would be pegged and if so to what?
    I'm probably out of my depth at this stage. My understanding is that a currency pegged to another currency essentially is that other currency, in that there are none of the normal mechanisms open to a central bank to regulate it and inflation, interest rates, easing and wotnot are as out of your control as if you were using that other currency. Hence, its only ever supposed to be a currency stabilisation measure.

    So could it work as a precursor to an independent currency? Perhaps.

    Whatever happens, as soon as there is an independent currency, its cork on rough seas - which is uncomfortable compared to what we currently have. A big slip in your currency's value leads to spikes in inflation like we're experiencing now. Only, for the small country proportionally importing much more, those effects would be more marked. For businesses too, I imagine that stable is better than a fluctuating currency, even if the average is the same over time. All of which leads to a downward pressure on an economy in the long term.

    I confess I'm less clear on the practical implications of using someone else's currency or having a fixed exchange rate. Maybe someone could enlighten me. I can't help but notice that all of the countries that do this aren't doing too well, though. Perhaps this is coincidence, because of the reasons they ended up in that position in the first place.

    The Euro bothers me less, oddly enough, because firstly its exchange rate is stable and secondly although its a basket case, there's too much at stake for it to fail. Is that naïve?

    You are right that there is cause and effect at work though there are strong economies who have pegged their currencies, usually because they are major exporters. IMO this will help,with short term fluctuations but not trends over which is is hard if not impossible to buck the market.

    Not sure why you think the Euro is a basket case - what does that make sterling?

    By ditching a currency union Scotland would get to set it's own monetary and fiscal policy which assuming a basic level of competence should produce better results than one designed to fit the entire UK.
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    [url][/url]
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)

    Keep you nose out sassenach. You don't get a say in it!
    Build that wall, build that wall...you and Pinno stuck on the other side, two for the price of one :)

    What if we just got deported for being aliens?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,829
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    [url][/url]
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)

    Keep you nose out sassenach. You don't get a say in it!
    Build that wall, build that wall...you and Pinno stuck on the other side, two for the price of one :)

    What if we just got deported for being aliens?
    I'm hoping they'll take pity on you. They definitely will do on Pinno.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • RallyBiker
    RallyBiker Posts: 378
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    [url][/url]
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)



    Keep you nose out sassenach. You don't get a say in it!
    Build that wall, build that wall...you and Pinno stuck on the other side, two for the price of one :)

    What if we just got deported for being aliens?

    So long as I can sneak in once a year to Glentress/Inners i'm not bothered! :o
    But Scotland's not going to go independent, so it ain't going to happen in any case :!:
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,829
    RallyBiker wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    [url][/url]
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    They should probably use a currency more in line with Scotland's circumstances post any independence deal.

    I reckon the Venezuelan Bolivar would be a good fit :)



    Keep you nose out sassenach. You don't get a say in it!
    Build that wall, build that wall...you and Pinno stuck on the other side, two for the price of one :)

    What if we just got deported for being aliens?

    So long as I can sneak in once a year to Glentress/Inners i'm not bothered! :o
    But Scotland's not going to go independent, so it ain't going to happen in any case :!:
    True, but if you let them have a toll road into Scotland like they have on the M4 headed in Wales I'm sure the Scots would be happy :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,004
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,829
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
    I don't know, they have some decent downhilling up there.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
    I don't know, they have some decent downhilling up there.

    I live near Glentress. I can get you in, if it comes to that. No questions. You didn't see me, ok?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,829
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
    I don't know, they have some decent downhilling up there.

    I live near Glentress. I can get you in, if it comes to that. No questions. You didn't see me, ok?
    So you're a people smuggler?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
    I don't know, they have some decent downhilling up there.

    I live near Glentress. I can get you in, if it comes to that. No questions. You didn't see me, ok?
    So you're a people smuggler?

    Can be. Who's asking?

    (I'll need to do something once all the banks hightail to Frankfurt am Main.)
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    RallyBiker wrote:
    She's a pariah to them as she just polarises the problems Spain and Belgium have with their counties.

    I think the Basques and Walloon (?) areas would ciunt as more than "counties". As would Scotland.
    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • RallyBiker
    RallyBiker Posts: 378
    SecretSam wrote:
    RallyBiker wrote:
    She's a pariah to them as she just polarises the problems Spain and Belgium have with their counties.

    I think the Basques and Walloon (?) areas would ciunt as more than "counties". As would Scotland.
    Ooops, typo,sorry!
  • RallyBiker
    RallyBiker Posts: 378
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
    I don't know, they have some decent downhilling up there.

    I live near Glentress. I can get you in, if it comes to that. No questions. You didn't see me, ok?

    Top man! :D
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    RallyBiker wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo, I'm not sure a toll northbound would be much good, as no one would need to go.
    I don't know, they have some decent downhilling up there.

    I live near Glentress. I can get you in, if it comes to that. No questions. You didn't see me, ok?

    Top man! :D

    Who wants to know? I'm outta here.

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