Cyclists - how hated do you feel?

Garry H

A Heron knitting a pair of plus fours for an owl.

bianchimoon

drwae wrote:

oblongomaculatus wrote:

team47b wrote:

Here, people shout words of encouragement to cyclists

Cyclists say hello to each other

Cyclists say hello to pedestrians

Funny old world

Interesting. Where are you? Holland?

I'm in Scotland and I've never experienced any of this, I had a gentleman at a zebra crossing tell me "Well done for wearing a helmet" on Friday!

I say well done to you as well, but would encourage you to wear it on Saturday, Sunday, monday and in fact any day you ride your bike!

rick_chasey

oblongomaculatus wrote:

We've probably all had verbal abuse from motorists, but are some part of the country worse for anti cyclist feeling than others? I work in Cambridge and spend a great deal of time on a bike there. Cambridge is sometimes called Britain's cycling capital. Whether this is justified or not I don't know, but there are certainly a large number of cycling related stories in the local paper, the Cambridge News. These always attract a large number of anti cycling comments - "they don't pay road tax, they're all a bunch of law breaking thugs, they're always on the pavements mowing down pedestrians, or swerving all over the road inconveniencing drivers..." and so on. These comments tend to come from the same people (often with multiple identities), who apparently don't want cyclists on the road but howl with outrage when money is spent on cycling infrastructure (for instance the 3,000 space cycle park by the station, or the recent 2.4m wide raised cycle lanes on Hills Road, or the proposed new cycling/pedestrian bridge across the river) A handful are alarmingly vitriolic, even unhinged. Offering a reasoned counter argument is to invite a tirade of vicious personal abuse.

I'd long assumed all this was pretty standard everywhere, but my attention was recently drawn to a story in the Bristol Post, about cyclists being assaulted on the Bristol - Bath cycleway. The motive was robbery - pedestrians were attacked too - and three men were jailed. But what stuck me most was the comments section. Most were of the "deport them" variety (the perpetrators were apparently of Somali origin). Not one was anti cyclist. If something like this had happened in Cambridge there would be a rich selection of cyclist hating rhetoric along the lines of "they're cyclists, they deserve to be beaten up". I had a quick look through some other cycling related stories in the Bristol Post, and while I did come across some negativity, it was on nothing like on the scale of the Cambridge News.

So, what's it like where you live? Are the comments sections in your local paper dominated by cycling hating trolls?

I was brought up in Cambridge and cycled everywhere.

Once, during a 3 year period there, I was involved in 3 hit and runs, and 2 road rage assaults, one of which broke 3 ribs.

There's a lot of agro between cars & bikes in Cambridge. The roads are too narrow to support bikes AND motor vehicles, and there's a real town vs gown tension, that's morphed into local vs yuppies.

I'd suggest Cambridge isn't typical for all sorts of reasons.

FWIW, on the Hills Road changes, I was the Hills Road student representative when this idea was first put out by the council, after I think the 2nd death in as many years on the bridge, over a decade ago. The local representative for 'cyclists' insisted that no changed should be made, and pressed on for a "vehicular cyclist solution" (i.e. forcing bikes to be treated like cars). It really held up the planning for a long time.

FishFish

I live in Brandon - middle of Thetford Forest - a cycle centre. Locals here hate cyclists and I will not ride on any of the roads in fear. I've been threatened many times and enjoy that as I used to be in the Parachute Regiment. I too worked in Cambridge and agree it is a real issue. Talk to the taxi drivers there and in London about cyclist and you get to the seat of the obsessive hatred. I'm sure that it is self hatred for being a taxi driver and tw@ projected outwards.

oblongomaculatus

It's interesting that Brandon has a similar level of animosity toward cyclists as Cambridge. The common denominator seems to be a larger than normal cycling population, so that motorists often perceive them as being "in the way". That's a common complaint in Cambridge, at any rate.

The Hills Road improvement on the bridge works well, you feel a lot safer now, although there's a point in each direction where the cycle lane is crossed by traffic wanting to turn left where you have to keep an eye out for late-indicating drivers. More recently there has been a 2.4m lane put in between Addenbrookes hospital and the bridge, with floating bus stops so you can continue without waiting behind a bus or risking a collision with oncoming traffic if you try to pass.

This works well for cyclists, being much safer, but as some of the road width has been taken from motorised traffic it does mean cars have to wait behind buses as passengers get on and off. As far as I can see it hasn't actually made congestion any worse along there, but there are frequent complaints about it in the paper - "cyclists don't deserve such preferential treatment", "they never use it anyway", "waste of money", etc. Work is about to start on a similar lane in the opposite direction, so I imagine there will be a lot more of that in future.

Personally, I don't come across a lot of animosity while on the road. There's a lot of bad driving - close passing, the occasional left hook, and the curious belief that the "give way to the right" rule on roundabouts doesn't apply if it's a bike coming, but that's mostly thoughtlessness rather than aggression. Most drivers are fairly tolerant, and I'm often let though by an oncoming car when waiting to turn right. Stupid parking causes me more problems - some drivers regard cycle lanes as convenient free short term parking facilities. It's only when you read the comments in the Cambridge News that you come across the real nutters.

Frank the tank

I don't feel hated when cycling, however, I do feel that some motorists could be more considerate. Having said that no one group of road users has a monopoly on be @rseholes. I'm sure we've all witnessed examples of cycling stupidity and thought "Thanks for making a rod for my back,you tw@t".

kingstongraham

There's a guy who rides his bike back from work through Kensington, over Hammersmith Bridge and off towards Roehampton who really, really hates cyclists. He wears his building site work clothes to ride, has a radio on his handlebars blaring out Heart FM, and shouts abuse at anyone who is wearing cycling clothing or has drop handlebars. Makes me smile every time I see him.

He's also a really, really strong cyclist.

Garry H

KingstonGraham wrote:

There's a guy who rides his bike back from work through Kensington, over Hammersmith Bridge and off towards Roehampton who really, really hates cyclists. He wears his building site work clothes to ride, has a radio on his handlebars blaring out Heart FM, and shouts abuse at anyone who is wearing cycling clothing or has drop handlebars. Makes me smile every time I see him.

He's also a really, really strong cyclist.

Probably banned from driving then...

kingstongraham

Garry H wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

There's a guy who rides his bike back from work through Kensington, over Hammersmith Bridge and off towards Roehampton who really, really hates cyclists. He wears his building site work clothes to ride, has a radio on his handlebars blaring out Heart FM, and shouts abuse at anyone who is wearing cycling clothing or has drop handlebars. Makes me smile every time I see him.

He's also a really, really strong cyclist.

Probably banned from driving then...

Hadn't thought of that. I'll ask him next time I see him.

oblongomaculatus

Crazyjenkins01 wrote:

Thanks for that link the comments section was hilarious!

Another fine selection of ignorant bigots today in a story about bike parking (or the lack of) - and one brave soul taking them on single handed. (And no, it's not me.)

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/pa ... ts-section

ben@31

I think the problem is a cultural or attitude thing of low intellect people. The type who generally read mind-numbing tabloid sensationalist clickbait trash like The Daily Mail / The Sun.

They have a hatred of minorities and can't comprehend anyone would like to be different to them. Maybe they have an inferiority complex and need to make themselves feel better by shouting abuse at others? If you're really that good you don't need to put others down.

Where I came from has just built a cycle lane across the city. Right on cue we had bigots writing into the local rag about the cycle lane taking up space. Has it ever occurred to them that the road was a dual carriageway, how much space do they need !?!?! Or that the congestion is actually caused by the volume of cars on the road?

Ive always wondered, when these neanderthal bigots spew hatred about cyclists, has it ever occurred to them that other people they interact with on a daily basis... barmen, waitresses, shop keepers, bank staff, receptionists, even other car drivers... might be cyclists in their spare time? Do the neanderthal bigots only hate them when these people are on a bike, but when the very same person steps off the bike, does their attitude to the same person change?

pinno

To be fair, it's a handful of recurring bigots in the comments section of that online Cambridge News: Aleksander [sic], Goldentench etc.
They seem to be dominating the threads.
When there is a clear distinction between 2 parties - in this case, cyclists and drivers, all the inherent and latent bigotry that exists in blighty comes out. It's especially prominent when the protagonists have the anonymity of a user ID and a computer or the perceived safety of the inside of a car armed with an accelerator pedal.
That's the ingrained prejudice that UKIP taps into. I wonder what percentage of the Brexit voters were just that?

Indemnity: I am not saying those who voted to leave the EU are all bigots - so don't bother getting on some sill PC bandwagon.

Garry H

It's just typical ingroup/outgroup mentality, combined with low intellect.

oblongomaculatus

Pinno wrote:

To be fair, it's a handful of recurring bigots in the comments section of that online Cambridge News: Aleksander [sic], Goldentench etc.
They seem to be dominating the threads.

Some of them seem to like arguing/abusing people online just for the fun of it. I once challenged Aleksandr to run for the city council, since he tends to reserve most of his bile for them (whom he insists in calling Clowncillors - faintly amusing the first time you read it, tiresome the 101st). If he had better ideas about how to cure congestion, I asked, why not tell people about them? If they're good ideas, he would surely get elected. His reply (shorn of the usual personal abuse) was that "your sort would make sure I didn't get in." Or in other words, he was admitting most people would vote for anyone other than an obvious fruitcake. (Although since then, look what happened across the Atlantic…)

pinno

Tell him how Oxford now has 0 cars bar taxi's, buses and disabled drivers within city limits at various times and suggest that keeping idiots like him off the road seems to have worked there and such a scheme in Cambridge would work.

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/site ... ements.pdf

oblongomaculatus

Pinno wrote:

Tell him how Oxford now has 0 cars bar taxi's, buses and disabled drivers within city limits at various times and suggest that keeping idiots like him off the road seems to have worked there and such a scheme in Cambridge would work.

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/site ... ements.pdf

I've given up telling him anything (as have most people) since he never, ever admits anyone's opinion other than his is valid; and that's apart from the way he gets more abusive the more you argue with him (He once suggested I'd been interfered with as a child). He claims to be a cyclist himself, for short journeys, and a motorist the rest of the time, which is fair enough, that's exactly the way bikes work best in Cambridge, but following a story about road positioning (primary, secondary etc) and how much room cars should leave when passing bikes, he said he always rode as close to the kerb as possible as it was his "duty" when on a bike to keep out of the way of drivers.

As far as closing the city centre is concerned, some streets already are, and there have been proposals to shut major routes into the city at peak times, or introduce a congestion charge, and various other schemes restricting cars in the most congested parts. Needless to say, he and the other anti cycling bigots are vehemently opposed to anything that restricts their "right" to drive anywhere they want to, even where it would clearly make life safer and more pleasant for cyclists and pedestrians.

pottssteve

A few years ago I was grinding up a little hill near Slenaken in the Netherlands when a guy in a car slowed down, wound down his window and beat his hand on the car door while yelling like crazy at me. Not speaking much Dutch, it took me a second to work out that he was shouting encouragement, DS-style. After a few seconds he drove off, a good thing really as I was going so slowly he would have burned his clutch out!

Here in Hong Kong most people on the road are totally ignorant fekkers who probably wouldn't stop if they ran over you.

rick_chasey

Pinno wrote:

Tell him how Oxford now has 0 cars bar taxi's, buses and disabled drivers within city limits at various times and suggest that keeping idiots like him off the road seems to have worked there and such a scheme in Cambridge would work.

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/site ... ements.pdf

Is already the case in central Cambridge.

That's why the drivers are annoyed. It's a 40 minute drive and £10er parking and another 5-10 minute walk for what is a 10-15 minute cycle for most people.

pinno

Then it's a no brainer - they should get on there bikes or take the bus the fat, lazy bas...

Congestion is one thing and councils have a right to charge for parking and consider anti-congestion measures but the overwhelming issue to me, is the levels of pollution that all those cars emit.
Cold engines doing less than 10 miles are spewing out pollutants because the Catalytic converters are not up to temperature. Longer in winter. The vast majority of commuting distances are short, so the vast majority of those vehicles are not up to optimum running temp. . That means that pedestrians, near by residents and cyclists are being exposed on a daily basis because there are legions of parents and other car drivers alike who stubbornly refuse to consider other transport options. Taking Sebastian and Tarquin 500 yards in their Chelsea tanks is part of the hedonistic display of wealth or status that is pervading our culture. I and my child(ren) are safe in my Range Rover/Volvo XC/Merc Mil, sod the rest of them.
It was in Cambridge some time ago, where a research group measured the pollution levels along a section of dual carriageway where a well frequented TT was taking place. The pollution levels were reduced during the event. It appeared that the 100+ cyclists participating were acting like biological filters. Eeek. I'll have a look for it. It was in the comic.

However, in the meantime and as a simple reference, this article a bit closer to home and accessible.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/h ... eat-28264/

I'm preaching to the converted, I know.

fat daddy

Pinno wrote:

there are legions of parents ..... Taking Sebastian and Tarquin 500 yards in their Chelsea tanks.

I think the real issue of hatred comes down to the small mindedness of people not accepting how others choose to lead their life.

We as cyclists bear the brunt of stereotyping, abuse hatred on the roads because we are not doing it the same way as the people that choose to drive.

That's not an issue with Drivers though, its an issue with small mindedness .... Take Pinnos quote above, his sudden outburst at parents ... this sort of behaviour is no different to a percentage of car drivers that decide that all cyclists are the same and hate them.

Its the reptilian brain inside the human that decides that it doesn't like difference, whether that be religion, colour, cyclist, parent .... its all the same.


EDIT: just read what I wrote again, and it comes across like I am calling Pinno a small minded lizard brain ... that's not where I was going, what I mean is, people discriminate where there are differences to others, ie, as shown by Pinno towards Parents ... and if he does that you kind of have to expect it from car drivers to cyclists, or religious nut to religious nut

pinno

I do have a small minded lizard brain. However, I am a parent. I have one child who gets learning support at one school and another child at another school who is at nursery. It is almost impossible to get them there on time simultaneously.
Most days, the OH takes one by foot to her school and I take the other by car and then head off to work.
Given the choice, I would rather not drive but at least, I am doubling up the run by using it for work.
This morning, I had to first take one child and then drop the other off. I watched as I left the car park, car after car after car exit. I know that many of them live within easy walking distance and will be heading home straight after dropping the kid(s) off.
The car park is congested, a danger and the trend is to drive wherever and whenever they can. It's almost a justification for purchasing 20k plus worth of BMW or Audi.
On the other hand, I used to commute by bike everyday in Cheltenham. At the pinch points between car and cyclist, it was hell. Car drivers who would overtake and pull sharp to the left and stop in the queue or pull out on you etc etc was a daily occurrence. No matter how well I behaved on the road, I felt like an inconvenient obstacle to the drivers.

So I have a balanced view and it wasn't an outburst as such, just the observation of an attitude that lacks accommodation and thought.

The root of the problem is that many journeys by car are unnecessary and there are too many cars and too many cyclists in the same place. 31 million cars on this small Island

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299 ... d-kingdom/

That's almost 2 people per car or 1 car per 2 people. The animosity between drivers and cyclists will always be present given the congestion.
It makes so much sense to cut down on the number of unnecessary car journeys.

rick_chasey

Cambridge's problem re schools is it has a number of popular private schools with a big catchment area, so a whole bunch of families who live in the Fen villages around, within an hour or so of Cambridge, have no other option than to drive their kids in every day.

The state schools at secondary level around those villages and even in Cambridge all put on free transport/buses for students outside of walking distance. But then they'd have to have studied with the equivalents of people like me, and who wants to do that .

pblakeney

Repeat after me - We're cyclists, nobody likes us, and we don't care.
Acceptance of the situation is the first step.

pinno

PBlakeney wrote:

Repeat after me - We're cyclists, nobody likes us, and we don't care.
Acceptance of the situation is the first step.

That's unusually flippant for you Blakey. It's difficult to accept when a lot of perfectly law abiding cyclists get abuse just because they are there. Not only that, car + bike = injury and/or death. Car drivers can be so dismissive and unaware of the dangers they put cyclists in.

Thank fully, having had fights with drivers south of the border, up Norf, in this area, the number of twits on the road is pretty low. You still get the odd twit but the frequency is such that there is no accumulative blood pressure increase.

pblakeney

Stop being so fecking serious.
This is BB. Try going over to CC for serious discussion.

pinno

PBlakeney wrote:

Try going over to CC for serious discussion.

Very funny.

oblongomaculatus

fat daddy wrote:

Pinno wrote:

there are legions of parents ..... Taking Sebastian and Tarquin 500 yards in their Chelsea tanks.

The problem with the school run is that these days many parents perceive, rightly or wrongly, that it's too dangerous to let their kids walk or cycle. I think it's the perception of danger that has changed, without it actually getting that much more dangerous. I used to walk to my first school, on my own, from the age of not quite five (I think I was only taken on my first day). This was not considered unusual. (It was only about 200 yards, with no roads to cross, mind you.) From 7 to 11, middle school was about half a mile away. I either walked or, mostly, cycled, about half a mile, always on my own. There were a few suburban roads to negotiate, and again, it was thought completely normal for me to do this. I still live near both schools, but, as far as I can tell, it just doesn't happen that way now.