another Campagnolo rant of mine

ugo.santalucia

Just mashed the paddle of the front Record shifter... seeing I paid 70 quid for the pair two years ago and it's going to cost way more than that to fix it, I'd say it's terminal. These plastic paddles are real shite... how come I have a pair of alloy ones which are 10 years older than these and Veloce rather than Record and they are still alive and kicking?

Fuxxing shite this is!

keezx

Buy some older Ergo's for parts (Centaur/Veloce) .....never paid >25€ for a pair.
Sure you can still buy those paddles though
The alloy paddles are better indeed..

ugo.santalucia

Keezx wrote:

Buy some older Ergo's for parts (Centaur/Veloce) .....never paid >25€ for a pair.
Sure you can still buy those paddles though
The alloy paddles are better indeed..

It's a record 11

keezx

http://www.smi-radsport.de/Fahrradteile ... RE328.html

Sure you can find these in the UK too, bur rediculous expensive...

ugo.santalucia

Keezx wrote:

http://www.smi-radsport.de/Fahrradteile/Campagnolo/Campagnolo-Ergopower/Campagnolo-Ergopower-Ersatzteile/CAMPAGNOLO-Schalthebel-f-Ergopower-rechts-EC-RE328.html

Sure you can find these in the UK too, bur rediculous expensive...

Expensive, it will break again and the repair itself is quite fiddly... Done it once, it took me the best part of an afternoon to re fit the spring.

Tempted to get a pair of cheap shimano shifters... I was using these on a shimergo setup, 11 shifts 9. A pair of 5700 shifters and cassette is just over 100 quid these days and it's all I need

pippi_langsamer-2

I'm still running a pair of 23yr old Shimano Ultegra shifters on my recently-retired-to-turbo winter bike battered n bruised they are, but they have never put a foot wrong in those 23 years. "Campag wears in, Shimano wears out", I hear them proclaim....."Cazzate!", I says :roll:

cycleclinic

The shifter body is about £70 all you have to do transfer the hood and brake lever. A lot less fiddly. Depends how much you vslue your time. As you bought them at a bargin price fixing them is worth while.

Devils advocate i have record 10 speed shifters with plastic paddles with alot of use and record 11 speed and super record 11 speed shifters they all work and habe never broken. In fact i dong think i have ever broke a shifter. Shimano shifter break as well you know seen several.

I dont think one brand is any more reliable than another.

ugo.santalucia

70£ for a record shifter body with all the internals... sounds a bit cheap to me... are you sure? Or that is for the cheaper ones with plastic ratchet?

Anyway... I knew the left plastic paddle would eventually give... the job it has to do is too hard for plastic, especially in winter when the derailleur might be a bit stiff from crud and cables not at their best... so I am not going that route again. Shimano at least have the common sense to use the all lever to load the spring and the paddle for the spring release.

The paddle for upshift is OK... but not if it's plastic... not for the front at least

Moral: a pair of 5700 shifters and a 10 speed cassette (I was on 9) 120 quid... the added benefit is that Shimano levers work better with my HyRD brakes.

Might be my final farewell to all things Campagnolo...

pinno

I must say, the Record 11 shifters don't feel quite as good or as direct as the Record 10's but they're till good. How did you 'mash' it? £70 and 20,000 miles later and you're moaning?!

ugo.santalucia

Pinno wrote:

I must say, the Record 11 shifters don't feel quite as good or as direct as the Record 10's but they're till good. How did you 'mash' it? £70 and 20,000 miles later and you're moaning?!

The paddle shifter broke where it's riveted to the metal mechanism. I bought them second hand for 70 quid, although judging by the rubber hoods they had done little mileage previously, price was low 'cause one was scratched.
20,000 miles, maybe a bit less... is it a lot? Record should last at least 50,000 I would say. The older ones with metal paddles were really durable. As I said, I have a pair of the Veloce 9 which are still very usable and those also I got second hand and probably had more use when I got them. It's just plain simple bad product design

rolf_f

I've got a left shifter that must be on 40,000 miles by now. I hesitate to mention it because last time I commented on the durability of my shifters (Centaur) the paddle spring of the right shifter broke - that was probably on about 35000 miles.

When I get round to it, it will go to Graham at Velotech to fix.

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

When I get round to it, it will go to Graham at Velotech to fix.

Is it worth doing it though? Other than for environmental reasons...

I was thinking of removing all the internals on the left and leave it as a pair of 1 x 11 Campagnolo Shifters, which also work as 1 x 9 for Shimano drivetrains... it migh turn up handy in the future, unless somebody want them

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

When I get round to it, it will go to Graham at Velotech to fix.

Is it worth doing it though? Other than for environmental reasons...

I was thinking of removing all the internals on the left and leave it as a pair of 1 x 11 Campagnolo Shifters, which also work as 1 x 9 for Shimano drivetrains... it migh turn up handy in the future, unless somebody want them

Well, they are current shape Centaur 10 speed Ultrashift which are actually pretty rare. I think Graeme quoted about £60 for repair and service (I think £30 for service and £30 repair) which should result in levers functionally as good as new. Of course, economically sourcing low mileage replacements makes more sense though unless you can be sure they are low mileage, you still might need to factor in servicing costs in the not too distant future.

However, it does look economically sensible compared to buying a new replacement.

cycleclinic

ugo Part number EC-RE100 R/H and EC-RE101 correction I actually sell them for £60 each. I sell quite alot of these oddly enough. So yes they are worth fixing and no this is not an advert. I know the trade price (there several campag sources) and £60 leave plenty for me.

the body comes with all internals the the gear shifters. they are plastic but this is the part they make for the 2009-2014 ulltrashift ergo's. all you have to do is transfer the brake lever and hoods. Your hoods maybe a bit worn and the hoods are part number EC-SR500 with B, W, R or CB depending on the colour.

As with any part people will get different lengths of time from them. It is not the number of miles but the number of shifts and how hard each shift is on the internals. therefore some will get stellera miles and other wont. Some people dont change gear

cycleclinic

rolf repairing the shifters is always worth while. I send them of to JD whiskers and the repair is never expensive and they feel like new when they come back.

cycleclinic

Actually ugo I might be tempted by these. I was planning on turning my commutor bike into 1x10 with record 10 speed but I did not have the heart to mutilate a set of record 10 speed shifters. Garbaruk will make a narrow wide chainring for 5 arm 135 BCD as a one off 80USD

1x11 record would work as well I just a new mech or a J-tek shiftmate If you want to sell them let me know.

pinno

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

When I get round to it, it will go to Graham at Velotech to fix.

Is it worth doing it though? Other than for environmental reasons...

I am sure your carbon offset gives you a free reign and a clear conscience.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Actually ugo I might be tempted by these. I was planning on turning my commutor bike into 1x10 with record 10 speed but I did not have the heart to mutilate a set of record 10 speed shifters. Garbaruk will make a narrow wide chainring for 5 arm 135 BCD as a one off 80USD

1x11 record would work as well I just a new mech or a J-tek shiftmate If you want to sell them let me know.

Why do you need a Shiftmate? Go 11 instead of 10 and you don't need anything... I actually have a Shiftmate, but it's a type 1 (the one to convert Campag 9 to Shimano 9).

If you want them, you can have them once I replace them with the Shimano over the weekend or early next week. 35 quid a fair price?

cycleclinic

sounds fair to me. If I keep my record 10 speed RD I will need a shiftmate. If I can get a cheap record or chorus 11 speed RD then I wont need a shiftmate.

send me an email ugo when you are ready. Just ordered the single ring now I will have a pair of record 10 speed shifters spare anyone want these?

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

sounds fair to me. If I keep my record 10 speed RD I will need a shiftmate. If I can get a cheap record or chorus 11 speed RD then I wont need a shiftmate.

send me an email ugo when you are ready. Just ordered the single ring now I will have a pair of record 10 speed shifters spare anyone want these?

I have a silver Veloce 10 rear derailleur (ca. 2011), which I understand has 11 speed geometry. As it's always the case with me, it has a nice scratch... but it is a glorious scratch... result of a fall on the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix... somewhere after Arenberg and before the Carrefour... do you want it? I can do 50 for the lot

cycleclinic

I'll just stick with the shifters. not sure about which rear mech I will use yet but it is unlikely to be silver veloce.

flanners1

I've broken two levers, as you say the alloy one's on the older 10 speed were excellent and I never had any trouble with those. Campagnolo shifters on the newer shape 10 and 11 speed shifters are in my view substandard both in shift 'feel' and longevity. It is no wonder many ProTeams fail to use their groupsets.

pinno

It's not about that, Shimano is a huge company and pay for pro teams to use their components, whereas Campag is relatively small in comparison and don't pay for teams to run their components. Out of the top 18, 3 are running Campag and 1 SRAM, 14 are running on Shimano. Which is probably a fair reflection of the market share (70%). This is probably not a good indicator as Shimano supply really low end bike components to manufacturers.

Although the levers 'feel' flimsy, the shift is as good as any. The Record 10 feels better than the 11 (I have both on two bikes) in terms of shift feel but I cannot fault the reliability.

flanners1

Pinno wrote:

It's not about that, Shimano is a huge company and pay for pro teams to use their components, whereas Campag is relatively small in comparison and don't pay for teams to run their components. Out of the top 18, 3 are running Campag and 1 SRAM, 14 are running on Shimano. Which is probably a fair reflection of the market share (70%). This is probably not a good indicator as Shimano supply really low end bike components to manufacturers.

Although the levers 'feel' flimsy, the shift is as good as any. The Record 10 feels better than the 11 (I have both on two bikes) in terms of shift feel but I cannot fault the reliability.

I agree the old 10 feels like a better shift and better built too. I feel Campagnolo is not what it used to be and has fallen behind in function and longevity, with die hard Campag users still harking back to when it was leading the way in R&D and build quality.

I understand that Shimano pay teams to use their gear, however for us punters how many new bikes come with Campagnolo as a default/option groupset? Not many.

Shimano and SRAM offer better for less ££'s.

Rodrego Hernandez

I think that in many cases, the groupset that the team use is determined largely by the bike manufacturer. Due to them mainly equipping their mass production bikes with shimano, they will use shimano on their team bikes. Of course Shimano will also have a say in that. When SRAM came out, a SRAM red groupset was cheaper than an Ultegra one to a manufacturer so the profit on a SRAM red bike was substantial - which explains why quite a few teams were on it, SRAM also threw a bit of cash at some teams too. When they realised that it wasn't very good, many teams went to shimano. Some teams that use campag will get some free and have to buy some, relying on the sales of team bikes at the end of the year to cover some of their costs.

ugo.santalucia

I think the thread is moving towards a pointless dead end. It is obvious to anybody that the groupset a professional team use is the one that offers the better deal on the table... being that more groupsets or more money. I don't think anybody cares anymore about these things... the days when a particular rider was associated to a particular brand are a thing of the past... maybe the last example was Armstrong + Trek, but nobody has that mediatic calibre any longer, nobody trascends the team anymore, not even Sagan

Captain Fagor

My 10 speed Centaur (circa 2005) LHS ergo lever on my winter bike is starting to behave a bit oddly. Yet to investigate fully but perhaps the cables and outers need replacing and the rear derailleur a deep clean to reduce friction in the system. Only 10.5k miles, so hopefully not worn out. Have noted the rebuild services available - thanks.

What do folk do when your Campag chainrings wear out? I appreciate that the chainrings should outlast several casettes, but it's a winter bike and on a couple of occasions I've let the chain stretch way beyond the limit before noticing, by which the time chainrings are semi-cooked. Last time (after about 7500 miles), I initially sourced non OEM rings (Stronglight or TA, I can't recall), but the shifting was dreadful. Massive overshifts required when going up the rings, then corrective downward clicks thereafter. So I bit the bullet and got a whole new chainset. Nowadays, 10sp triple campag square taper chainsets are quite rare.

Because of all this, I do have one eye on a replacement groupset. Most of my good bikes have either 10sp Record or 11 speed Chorus (i.e. square taper or Ultratorque). As it's a winter bike, I would be looking at a mid-range triple, which leaves only one choice: Potenza. Is Powertorque really that bad? I do all my own spannering work, but would really baulk at the propsect of paying silly money for bespoke bearing pullers. I've cobbled lots of presses togther from laser cut washers and nuts and bolts, but pullers are another matter entirely. Hmmm...

pinno

Flanners1 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

It's...reliability.

I understand that Shimano pay teams to use their gear, however for us punters how many new bikes come with Campagnolo as a default/option groupset? Not many.

Personally, that doesn't make a difference to me. I haven't bought a complete bike since 1988. I tend to relegate components to my winter bike and upgrade to the point that now, there really isn't much upgrading to do without spending disproportionate sums to achieve the upgrade.
My Wilier was fitted out with Record 11. The chainset is a Fulcrum Cent Uno, second hand, the skeleton brakes are 2nd hand chorus, the cassette is second hand chorus. The only thing new (bar bottle cages, a chain, h'bar tape, ergo cable set) was the ergo levers and the rear mech. Everything else I sourced on here or on flea bay. The frame and the wheels are 2nd hand. I saved a fortune.

@Captain Fagor: Shop around for the chain rings. I sold a record 10 that had worn chainrings on ebay for £110 and bought a Carbon chorus (can't see much difference in terms of weight and longevity with the R10) for £108 incl. p+p that was nearly immaculate, for the winter trainer - not much point using R10 on a Winter bike.
The Fulcrum Cento Uno compact chainset retails at the same price as the R11 (if you can get one). I got it for £100 to replace my standard R11 chainset. I sold that for £140.
It was sold to me as described needing bearings. I didn't have a puller, so I put it in the vice and used the angle grinder carefully to chop them off, found a suitable tube to press (tap with a hammer) the new one's on and hey presto, new bearings and a chainset that was like new (god knows what caused the bearings to fail as it is immaculate) with a tiny amount of change on my pocket.




Back to the subject (sort of).

The one thing about Campag that I found, is that it has much better resale value than Shimano. For example, DA Rear mech from £50, with Cermaic bearing upgrade!:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dura-Ace-RD-7 ... SwdGFYsGgN

With carbon jockey wheels:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/shimano-dura- ... SwTuJYtFnE

Comparing like with like, Campag 10 speed rear mech, £90:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-Re ... Sw44BYa5YL

Another one, £105:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-Ti ... SwbYZXXZNe

Second hand DA wheels (retail for £600+). I bought a 2nd hand pair in VGC for £254, the Eurus 2nd hand was £360 with great rims but buggered bearings. Bearings, cones etc from Ribble cost me roughly £40 and a bit of my time.

Nick Payne

As chains/cassettes wear out on various bikes, I've been gradually migrating from Shimano/Campagnolo 9s/10s on various bikes to SRAM 11s on all of them. After having used all three systems quite extensively, I find I prefer the way the SRAM shifters work, plus SRAM are the only ones who have compatibility between 11s road shifters and MTB derailleurs, for fitting wide range gearing on touring/gravel bikes.

Captain Fagor

@Pinno. Thanks for the post and the pics, and no thread hijack intended. I haven't really considered second hand rings, due to unscrupulous sellers (or my general mistrust of people). Second hand rings strikes me as a lottery. Perhaps a very comprehensively photographed ebay auction description might offer some reassurance, I suppose, but I imagine those are few and far between.

pinno

Captain Fagor wrote:

@Pinno. Thanks for the post and the pics, and no thread hijack intended. I haven't really considered second hand rings, due to unscrupulous sellers (or my general mistrust of people). Second hand rings strikes me as a lottery. Perhaps a very comprehensively photographed ebay auction description might offer some reassurance, I suppose, but I imagine those are few and far between.

You can get new Centaur or Chorus C'rings new for a better price. Failing that, FSA do Campag or Shimano specific. Take a look on the drop down menu:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSA-Chainring ... sMQv8Cwz9A

I've never had any problems with any FSA stuff. It's always good quality. Sprocketsuk are a genuine FSA supplier, not copies.

@Nick Payne. I might consider an SRAM 11 cassette because the Campag one's are so pricey and you can get the ratios you want. Although the splines won't allow a fit on Campag hubs, when my Eurus die, I could fork out for those gorgeous Shimano DA CL35's (with tubular rims)...