Wheels for UK

Jerry185

Bit of advice needed - I live in Jersey, but will be relocating to Edinburgh. I have seen the roads there and, another posters words - not mine, are something like 'potholed back roads from a war torn post apocalyptic moonscape.'
I have a very nice Cipo with Zipp 404's (+ 22mm Conti tubs) matched on and been advised to get something that will be more suitable for the forthcoming weekend runs.
LBS choice here is a little limited but I've been offered a set of
- new handbuilt Mavic Open Pro's with Shimano 105 cassette + Tyres = £305
- Good as new FFR4 and 6 which have the lifetime 'break and you get another one half price' offer = £450

Obviously looking for something tough but not tractor heavy

Any thoughts on the above with anyone's local knowledge/other choices/no choices?

Thanks

Hinaultscrapcousin

I'd go with these, he does tubular or clincher:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/powertap-c1 ... 6cd7d52d86

If you want something more conventional:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/powertap-c1 ... 401f51ada4

964cup

Three victories for Zipp in Paris Roubaix since 2010 (on 303s, admittedly, but they have the same construction as the 404). I'd relax. Fit 25s if you can for a little more comfort.

kingstongraham

There'll be an lbs when you get there.

mrb123

There's a nice set of handbuilt Pacenti/Dura Ace wheels in the classified section at the moment.

Semantik

964Cup wrote:

Three victories for Zipp in Paris Roubaix since 2010 (on 303s, admittedly, but they have the same construction as the 404). I'd relax. Fit 25s if you can for a little more comfort.

Yeah, riding your 404's through a Scottish winter or two is a great idea. Fact that they are tubs is even better.

Think OP knows this is a sh*t idea, hence why he is asking for alternatives.

aberdeen_lune

Don't think the OP will be riding his good bike through a Scottish winter. Can you clarify Jerry are you talking about summer club rides?

scott_w1987

Handbuilt R460s on Miche primato hubs or Archetypes on primatos, spoke/hole/lace pattern to suit. I'd avoid shimano hubs unless you are prepared to spend time maintaining them throughout winter...

Or there's shimano fit zondas in the classifieds for £200, probably couldn't get a much better set of wheels for the money. Light too!

Also Gamma transport division will build you a nice set of my choices above for less than your quoted open pros on 105s. Owen the mechanic is a cracking wheel builder!

cycleclinic

the ideas in the last post are far better than the eariler ones. also the roads on the mainland are not that bad. You can ride Zipps with tubs without real issues.

Jerry185

Thanks everyone, these are for rides on the Cipo for all seasons

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

the ideas in the last post are far better than the eariler ones. also the roads on the mainland are not that bad. You can ride Zipps with tubs without real issues.

The other day I came back brown... did look like Museeuw at PR 2002...

Man Of Lard

thecycleclinic wrote:

the ideas in the last post are far better than the eariler ones. also the roads on the mainland are not that bad. You can ride Zipps with tubs without real issues.

You've not been to Edinburgh have you?

The standard of an acceptable road surface to Edinburgh City Council and me diverges significantly.

aberdeen_lune

The roads in Scotland get a lot messier than your used to in winter. Very mucky with lots of salt and grit. I would buy a winter bike fitted with 28mm tyres and full guards to use October to March. Your good bike with Zipps will be ideal for summer club rides and chaingangs.

Hinaultscrapcousin

thecycleclinic wrote:

the ideas in the last post are far better than the eariler ones. also the roads on the mainland are not that bad. You can ride Zipps with tubs without real issues.

Zipp 404's through the winter in Scotland? Just no.

singleton

Take a look at hunt bike wheels. I run their "race aero wide" on my summer bike and their "4 season aero" on my winter bike (the older slightly narrower ones) - both with tubeless tyres. I've had good experiences with them and they do well in magazine tests.

vinnymarsden

I would personally look no further than Fulcrum Racing Zero's for a good all round bombproof wheel thats perfect for UK roads..I am toying with carbon for summer/trip to Alps, but my go to are the RZ's.. de-stickered they look mint too!!

philbar72

Go for something with decent bearings, the Hunts while totally resilient are built to 2 standards and their 4 seasons wheel has their hardiest bearings.

That said the 31mm x24 ones I am using are a dream to ride on. Very nice and will be doing liege this year….

thegreatdivide

Jerry185 wrote:

Thanks everyone, these are for rides on the Cipo for all seasons

Then buy a set of cheap alloys for the winter and ride your 404's when the salt has all gone.

Parts of Edinburgh city centre might be patchy (like all UK cities) but the back roads are just like the majority of roads in the rest of the UK with the exception of 'ooh look at us and our special roads Yorkshire'. On the other side of the river I run a pair of low cost alloys with 28mm tyres through the winter, then the good bikes come out and I'll run 404 tubs, 303 NSW's, RSY SLRS and the aforementioned trusty Racing Zeros.

cycleclinic

ugo that what I looked like after CCS's reliability ride. I used my carbon wheels that day. If you spend all that money on a a set of wheels why keep them for summer days. If they are any good they can be used on a wet mucky day. They are sitting in the shop now waiting for a clean as I have used them a fair bit this winter and they will be in use again on sunday.

Winter wheels summer wheels they are all the same to me (round and have spoke in them).

When buying wheels look past the marketing. If the bearings are small then expect to replace them sooner than bigger bearings. Also if the bearing have single seals then you have to ask why what are they trying to achieve, premature bearing wear? unless the single sealed bearings are back to back in which case that is o.k so long as they remain packed with grease.

For me the ideal bearing size for a road bike wheel is 6001. As any hubs have 15mm or 17mm axles then 6902 or 6803 bearings just have to do but you can blame thru axle standards for that. I would get rid of them all and just have 6001 bearings in every hub and make it law so no one has a choice.

Oh miche hubs are quite good. Got 10,000 miles on the set in my carbon wheels all weather use as well and they still dont need to be changed. 6001 bearings that why.

rolf_f

thecycleclinic wrote:

I used my carbon wheels that day. If you spend all that money on a a set of wheels why keep them for summer days. If they are any good they can be used on a wet mucky day.

Unless you are so short of space that you can only accommodate one pair of wheels, the reason that you spend all that money on a set of wheels only for summer days is that it saves a fortune. If the weather is crap, the niceness of your wheels is mostly irrelevant. Let the cheaper wheels get worn out - used in dry weather wheels last pretty much forever.

Of course, if you want to buy another expensive set of wheels a few years down the line then that is a good reason to use them in crap weather! I like to keep my nice stuff though - mostly in winter I use Khamsins and have worn two sets of those out now at a total investment of about £120. I don't find that they spoil the ride with their relative heaviness.

964cup

I don't understand. This was originally a question about whether 404s could survive potholes. There's nothing in the original post about winter riding. Personally, I'd be reluctant to use any carbon rim-braked wheel in a Scots winter - partly because they don't stop too well in the wet, but more because the salt & grit will make a grinding paste for the rims. But I'd be perfectly happy to ride the same wheels any other time, irrespective of the state of the road surface, although if it's as bad as some people suggest, I might look to fit a higher-volume tyre.

Get a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLEs for winter (why put cheap wheels on a nice bike?); the Exalith surface will survive anything you throw at it, IME. I currently have R-SYS SLR Exalith on my winter bike, and can't fault them, but the Carbones are more aero, innit? (although, weirdly, they don't make a tubular any more)

Or, yes, buy some nice handbuilts. Preferably with half-decent bearing seals.

Or buy a cross-bike ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H disc-braked road bike and ride whatever damn wheels you please. Contrary to popular opinion, there's no compliance in the wheel itself (it's all in the tyre) and carbon rims are very very strong.

ugo.santalucia

964Cup wrote:

Contrary to popular opinion, there's no compliance in the wheel itself (it's all in the tyre) and carbon rims are very very strong.

Heretic...

there is... butted spokes are more compliant than straight gauge and crossed patterns are more compliant than radial ones... that's why typically people refer to some wheels as "harsh" and others "smooth"... I have a pair of wheels with straight gauge spokes... I hate them

cycleclinic

The problem with keeping you nice wheels for nice days is that nice warm dry days seem a long way of at present good wheels will survive

Back to the orginal question the Zipp 404's can be ridden on scottish or english roads. The Zipp rim is a very good one. If holes are worry and they are for any wheel, fit big tyres.
Dugast tubs will look of these and do a good job of absorbing the bumps and holes or maybe Veloflex valaanderan tubs. It is the tyre that absorbs the shocks not the rim. Ask the rim to take impacts and you will have a damaged rim in short order.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Dugast tubs will look of these and do a good job of absorbing the bumps and holes or maybe Veloflex valaanderan tubs. It is the tyre that absorbs the shocks not the rim. Ask the rim to take impacts and you will have a damaged rim in short order.

I think your posts are getting hopeless... so now your advice is to ride Dugast tubulars over winter, which not only cost three times the price of a decent clincher, but being artisan tyres, they don't even have modern puncture protection layers ... they might even need aquasure, being cotton tyres I suspect they don't like wet British roads.
For the same price of a pair of Dugast tubulars and a acouple of puncture repairs, the OP can buy a very decent pair of alloy clinchers that see him through the winter and until the roads are in a decent state

cycleclinic

I thought the original post was about riding in scotland over holed bumpy roads (or that what the OP thinks) rather than riding in winter. I tried to go back to that original question rather than stay on the winter track.

yes this thread is hopeless wish I never posted now. Also I have the cotton MTB tubs and so long as you protect the sidewalls they are fine. They get pretty mucky. Continental do the sprinter tub in 25mm which is not that expensive and pretty robust. Also dugast tubs are cheaper from dugast than veloflex tubs so I am not sure ugo you know how much they actually cost.

Yes the OP could sell his zipps and buy cheaper wheels but all I am trying to suggest is the Zipp wheels are not fragile with a big tub on it. An alloy clincher will be vunerable to damage with a 22mm tyre on it as well. The OP has been advised Mavic Open Pro's though which for ride comfort alone are not the best out there now.

I have re read the OP's post and no mention of winter i made just that he has been advised to buy new wheels.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Also dugast tubs are cheaper from dugast than veloflex tubs so I am not sure ugo you know how much they actually cost.

I do, you sell them for 65 quid a pop... so that's 130 for the pair... if you factor in repairing a couple of punctures, that becomes 170 pounds... I seem to recall if you wait for the right offer, you might even bag a pair of Zonda for that money.

I have noticed on your site you advise a range of pressure up to 9 Bar for the 25 mm Strada cotton tubs... We (as in a friend of mine) have used the very similar FMB cotton 25 mm and they exploded at 90 PSI... which is about 6 Bar.. both of them... not sure a cotton tub will take 9 bars

cycleclinic

right the OP was worried about ride comfort and protecting his wheels. HIs option to continue using the Zipps is to fit a wide tub. The choices there are Schwable one 28mm, Challange strada 27mm, Dugast 27mm tubs, Veloflex 27mm and vittoria corsa which come in 28mm,

Not the cheapest option but none of these tubs are cheap but he did not say in his post he wanted the cheapest option. 25mm conti tubs are comfortable enough but the smoother the road the better really with these.

He can sell his Zipps and buy almost any clincher. Zonda's are not expensive neither are shimano ultegra wheels or Campag khasmins and just use those with clincher tyres. The ride however will be more harsh. it simply depends on what the OP wants out of his wheels doesn't it.

Hinaultscrapcousin

Maybe the OP can clarify? I read it as they wanted a second set of wheels for club runs, general riding/training when the Zipps were a bad choice.

cycleclinic

Yes he might have meant that. Having more than one set of wheels is not a bad thing anyway. I read it though as he was advised that the Zipps would fall apart if ridden in scotland.

Hinaultscrapcousin

Doesn't sound likely. Plenty of guys riding Zipps (other stoopid looking wheels are available ) in the clubs I ride with but all of them will swap out to something cheaper come winter/general Glasgow weather (unless they have a winter/wet weather bike of course).

964cup

ugo.santalucia wrote:

964Cup wrote:

Contrary to popular opinion, there's no compliance in the wheel itself (it's all in the tyre) and carbon rims are very very strong.

Heretic...

there is... butted spokes are more compliant than straight gauge and crossed patterns are more compliant than radial ones... that's why typically people refer to some wheels as "harsh" and others "smooth"... I have a pair of wheels with straight gauge spokes... I hate them

That's not what Mike Burrows thinks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS3CD8Eiv1U...

I know people talk about wheels in that way, but I'm not so sure the science is with them. I can see how spoke lacing, count, tension and butting *could* affect compliance (by acting as a spring between the hub and the rim) - but that of course also brings us back to the old argument about whether wheels work because of the tension of the upper spokes or the compression of the lower ones as the wheel turns.

Anyway, I doubt it's especially relevant to the OP's question (which seems no longer to be the subject of the thread, and where is the OP anyway?). I am pretty sure that changing tyre volume and pressure will have a much larger effect on comfort than wheel choice (and that 404s will be fine for any road terrain in the dry).

If I was going to recommend a tub for winter, it would be the Challenge Strada 25c; I use that on my winter bike and both my classic bikes. I think it offers a good compromise between puncture resistance and performance. They are about £60 each, though, in these Brexit-challenged days. Latex tubes, as well, so the usual overnight flat. Conti Sprinter Gatorskins are about £35, by contrast. Horrid things, IMO (and IME, since I use them in France at the moment, after a series of Corsa failures) but they won't puncture and are cheap.