Titanium bikes

green_mark

I've a Lynskey Ti Sportive and it's a bit meh.

1.85kg for a disc frame without forks. Heavy.
It's pretty stiff - I don't really have the power to make it wobble. I'm on 28mm tyres so I wouldn't notice if it were magic carpet or not.

I won't be replacing mine in a hurry, but then again, were I to buy a new bike I would probably buy a cheap Chinese carbon frame and build up from there. If the frame broke I would be able to buy a replacement and it would still all in cheaper than the Ti frame.

term1te

I ride an Enigma Excel, I find it difficult to imagine a better bike. Although I did snap the forks in a peloton pile up on Sunday, but it was the carbon that went, with not a mark on the frame.

pippi_langsamer-2

Had a Litespeed Ghisallo briefly years ago. Ridden about three times and promptly swapped for a Scott CR1 when they first came out.

Ghisallo was beautiful, but felt like riding Plasticine...

Matthewfalle

Navrig2 wrote:

I've got Lynskey Ti and love it.

I saw the PlanetX Ti a couple of weekends ago and it looks brilliant. A nice mix of matt and shiny and a great looking shape.

MF built a Planet X it bike a while ago and it was lovely. He couldn't get bothered to ride it as he was tired so he can't comment on that side of things but it looks lovely.

#prettyshineymyprecious

Bordersroadie

green_mark wrote:

I've a Lynskey Ti Sportive and it's a bit meh.

1.85kg for a disc frame without forks. Heavy.

Blimey, that is heavy. A Russian-made Burls is 1.3kg plus a 300 ish gramme fork.

term1te

My Excel frame is 1250g, and the whole bike is just under 7kg.

First.Aspect

I have a titanium bike. Its good.

This thread could go on forever.

joey54321

I've got an older style Planet X Ti bike and it's amazing! It's almost too good, I 'upgraded' my summer/race bike to an aero Scott Foil with Zipp 404s (undoubtedly a faster bike). I should have sold the Ti bike and got a 'proper' winter bike but I couldn't bring myself to do it, as such I press it into winter service with bad wheels and heavy tyres, which doesn't do it justice at all. That was two years ago, the pressure to sell it has been building though as I've moved into smaller houses and a more versatile bike is on the short list.

andyh01

I'm going through the conundrum of what frame material I want to invest in for the long term, for an all rounder frame for life and started seeing the anecdotal evidence and take the view if one looks you can find the evidence to support your views for any of the frame material.
Personally for me and the type of riding I do as a lay person I don't believe I would notice the flex/stiffness and most of feeling/feedback will be from the tires and contact points.
In terms of Ti (I've test ridden both J.ack and Enigma Escape) whilst it felt different vibrations were a bit duller compared to my Alu bike wasn't as buttery smooth as the hype suggests.
Ti does appeal to me for the anti corrosion and scratching properties no paint to chip however like carbon, at the moment it's too expensive.
As been said excellent bikes can be made from Alu, SS, Carbon, Ti even bamboo and graphene, provided the right design application and manufacturing processes a poor bike could also be made from the same materials.
Similar to Carbon, there are different grades and quality of Ti 3AL or 6AL aerospace grade it'll be like comparing the cheap open mould carbon bike to say the Vange, it all comes down to cost of production and don't get me wrong, it's amazing how manufactures have brought production costs down or squeezed the margins and these bike would be absolutely fine for everyday. There is a reason however why the likes of Seven can sell a £4K for the evergreen frame set alone, compared to a whole bike for the £4K.
As a good comparison of similar quality costs of framesets of different materials it;s good to look at one manufacture who makes them such as Mason.
Mason Bokeh Alu frameset is £1050 (force 1x bike £3100)
Mason Bokeh Ti frameset approx £2100 (force 1X bike £5200 - £3100)
Mason Resolution Columbus ’Spirit’ and ‘Life’ SS frameset £1495
This to me shows all things being equal, Alu is still the best value frame materiel and to get a carbon or Ti frameset compromises have had to have been made whether quality of materials or production costs, I think margins have already been squeezed.

Wheels, contact points, fit and geometry make the biggest difference to feel and handling and there are always going to be fans of or haters of the different types of materials used which is probably anecdotal and could be down to wheels, contact points fit and geometry than the materiel.
I've only used Alu frame bikes and had no issues with them and would be tempted with a SS or Ti but I can't see point in spending more when Alu is fine for my use and purpose. It's mainly the bolts, washers springs and wire that exposed or water ingress that makes the frame look rusty but if use marine grade ss or ti bolts and washers it'll keep it's look along with some frame frame protector.

navrig2

AndyH01 wrote:

I'm going through the conundrum of what frame material I want to invest in for the long term, for an all rounder frame for life and started seeing the anecdotal evidence and take the view if one looks you can find the evidence to support your views f.............

Your conclusion is probably correct in that there is no point spending more money than you need if an Alu frame will do what you want.

What you don't really address is how the tech, looks, street cred, name and kit affect people's choice of bike. If everyone took what might be described as a minimalist approach we would all be riding around on, say, 1970s Raleighs.

Technical advancements would be rejected by consumers on the basis that down tube shifters do the job. The same being said about skinny steel tubes, fancy Italian bikes and saving 13 grammes by moving to more expensive mechanics.

Similarly there isn't always the same relationship between costs of manufacture and retail prices. If a bike is very popular, for whatever reason, it may be sold at a higher price than another model which costs more to produce. Retailers and manufacturers respond to changes in consumer aspirations and we are all fickle when it comes to likes and dislikes.

horizon

AndyH01 wrote:

-edit-
As a good comparison of similar quality costs of framesets of different materials it;s good to look at one manufacture who makes them such as Mason.
Mason Bokeh Alu frameset is £1050 (force 1x bike £3100)
Mason Bokeh Ti frameset approx £2100 (force 1X bike £5200 - £3100)
Mason Resolution Columbus ’Spirit’ and ‘Life’ SS frameset £1495
This to me shows all things being equal, Alu is still the best value frame materiel and to get a carbon or Ti frameset compromises have had to have been made whether quality of materials or production costs, I think margins have already been squeezed.

The Mason BokehTi frameset is £3250 - is it 3 times better than the aluminium version? You'd have to ride both to really know, and even then it would be a personal choice of priorities against the usual diminishing returns. Having followed the Mason story from the start, and owning a Definition, I don't think Dom is about compromise on any of his frames and, for me, the alum Definition is way better than the Van Nicholas Ti bike I was previously riding.

alanparsons

Come to Norwich and speak to these people.

https://store.pedalrevolution.co.uk/

Or their store in Kings Lynn for a test ride

https://www.pedalrevolution.co.uk/titanium-demo-bikes/

First.Aspect

Horizon wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

-edit-
As a good comparison of similar quality costs of framesets of different materials it;s good to look at one manufacture who makes them such as Mason.
Mason Bokeh Alu frameset is £1050 (force 1x bike £3100)
Mason Bokeh Ti frameset approx £2100 (force 1X bike £5200 - £3100)
Mason Resolution Columbus ’Spirit’ and ‘Life’ SS frameset £1495
This to me shows all things being equal, Alu is still the best value frame materiel and to get a carbon or Ti frameset compromises have had to have been made whether quality of materials or production costs, I think margins have already been squeezed.

The Mason BokehTi frameset is £3250 - is it 3 times better than the aluminium version? You'd have to ride both to really know, and even then it would be a personal choice of priorities against the usual diminishing returns. Having followed the Mason story from the start, and owning a Definition, I don't think Dom is about compromise on any of his frames and, for me, the alum Definition is way better than the Van Nicholas Ti bike I was previously riding.

The odd thing about buying a titanium frame is that is both costs more and performs less well than a carbon frame. So no rational cost-benefit analysis would lead one to titanium. In 1995 or 2000 yes. Now, no.

I have two by the way, so I'm not throwing stones.

andyh01

"What you don't really address is how the tech, looks, street cred, name and kit affect people's choice of bike".-
All things being equal hence comparison of manufacturer/retailer selling same bike; so same tech such as disc, thru axle di2 ready internal cabling, the latest technology. The complete bike have the same finishing kit so street cred and name in this example is the. The point being made is the cost o production of Ti and steel frames to an high standard vs Alu frame to the same high standard is more expensive or the quality is compromised to cut costs.

"Similarly there isn't always the same relationship between costs of manufacture and retail prices. If a bike is very popular, for whatever reason" Just to clarify in the case of Mason they work with frame builders and retail direct so same supplier of similar bike just in different materiel the Bokeh has Alu or ti frame or complete bike options and a very similar high quality SS bike which also has an Alu direct comparable bike or frame which again is slightly cheaper than the ss version.

Comparing high end Alu to lower end carbon or Ti isn't comparing apples for apples.

"The Mason BokehTi frameset is £3250 "- Thanks for the correction I could only see price of full bike

inbike

AndyH01 wrote:

Comparing high end Alu to lower end carbon or Ti isn't comparing apples for apples.

It is when you can buy a high end alu frame for less than a cheap Ti one!

I do have a Ti bike - but ride my alu bike a lot, because I'm more comfortable chucking it in planes and trains. The best bike is the one you can afford to crash.

If I was rich I'd have my butler deliver my carbon aero bike to my hotel and deal with managing the bike box... But sadly not an option :-)