Low back pain on road but not on turbo!
DaveyO
Posts: 37
Hi,
Quick background, i'm a 42 yo male. I started cycling at the start of May last year. Previously i had been strength training for the last 20 years), but due to a change in my work circumstances i needed a new way of keeping some level of fitness.
I was bike fitted within a fortnight of purchasing my bike and was recently bike fitted again by a different person. A couple of minor changes were made, but nothing night and day. I'm also pretty limber as i've always stretched and do a fair bit of mobility work.
I've noticed since around the start of November, lower back pain creeping in when on the road. Things i've changed while cycling leading up to this is,
1) Not stopping during a ride
2) Keeping a constant cadence (No coasting)
3) Ensuring i'm within a target power zone(s)
4? Average power has increased
My normal cadence is around 90 RPM. I noticed last weekend when i deliberately used a lower gear and had my cadence around 100 RPM that the onset of the pain took a fair bit longer to kick in.
When i'm on the turbo trainer however, i never have any pains/niggles whatsoever, regardless of cadence/power/time.
Any ideas as to why this would be? The only thing i'm thinking of at this time is lack of core strength, as i'm having to hold the bike in position on the road as to it being set in position while on the trainer, anyone else have any ideas?
Quick background, i'm a 42 yo male. I started cycling at the start of May last year. Previously i had been strength training for the last 20 years), but due to a change in my work circumstances i needed a new way of keeping some level of fitness.
I was bike fitted within a fortnight of purchasing my bike and was recently bike fitted again by a different person. A couple of minor changes were made, but nothing night and day. I'm also pretty limber as i've always stretched and do a fair bit of mobility work.
I've noticed since around the start of November, lower back pain creeping in when on the road. Things i've changed while cycling leading up to this is,
1) Not stopping during a ride
2) Keeping a constant cadence (No coasting)
3) Ensuring i'm within a target power zone(s)
4? Average power has increased
My normal cadence is around 90 RPM. I noticed last weekend when i deliberately used a lower gear and had my cadence around 100 RPM that the onset of the pain took a fair bit longer to kick in.
When i'm on the turbo trainer however, i never have any pains/niggles whatsoever, regardless of cadence/power/time.
Any ideas as to why this would be? The only thing i'm thinking of at this time is lack of core strength, as i'm having to hold the bike in position on the road as to it being set in position while on the trainer, anyone else have any ideas?
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Comments
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I'm no expert but was looking at similar posts as had a bit of back pain (after 2 years on a Hybrid doing about 50k a week, but did a hasty longish ride on an Aero bike last w/e which I think caused my minor back complaint).
- Roads are generally a lot bumpier than being on a Turbo. So road buzz/potholes could jolt you back.
- You could be increasing too quickly, not sure what the rule is in cycling, but in running the 10% rule of not increasing miles/speed by that each week could be similar
I found this article/video interesting:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/f ... e-the-bike0 -
You say you have been riding for less than a year and yet your in to power zones etc. I would suggest that just riding your bike over different distances and different terrain in different conditions would gradually condition your body to cope with the stress of Cycling.
The old adage used to be long slow distance before you start doing the speed stuff.0 -
Webboo wrote:You say you have been riding for less than a year and yet your in to power zones etc. I would suggest that just riding your bike over different distances and different terrain in different conditions would gradually condition your body to cope with the stress of Cycling.
The old adage used to be long slow distance before you start doing the speed stuff.
I see what you're saying, but I only set up my zones to make sure I did the opposite of what you have said. Doing a lot of powerlifting previously, I had a good foundation in knowing that training to certain percentages of max lifts etc, was the way to build a foundation, progress and prevent injury.
My training has been around building my base and recently adding in muscular endurance (Z2/3), I have no grand illusions of being some racer type. The problem occurs during all and including Z2 road rides ( My Z2 power and HR track pretty well)
My turbo work has been mostly been working into Z3 for muscular endurance and hence my question on why this doesn't seem to cause the slightest niggle, yet on the road at lower power it does?0 -
Despite using my road bike on the turbo, I sit on it in different way and although you have resistance you have no wind. When out on the road I naturally get lower as the wind increases. This doesn't happen on the turbo.
Also would you recommend a new comer to the gym pushing their limits with out developing a reasonable strength base. As that's what you seem to doing with your cycling.
Doing long slow distance will develop your cycling core strength.0 -
Probably down to poor bike fit. Post a pic of yourself on the bike.0
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Webboo wrote:Despite using my road bike on the turbo, I sit on it in different way and although you have resistance you have no wind. When out on the road I naturally get lower as the wind increases. This doesn't happen on the turbo.
Just what I was going to add. I reach more forward and lower when on the road. On the road I'm always on the hoods or drops. On the turbo I tend to rest my hands at the 'corners' of the bars. Probably 10cm or so behind the hoods position and a lot more upright.
Also hills. They use your back more. I assume resistance on the trainer may do the same but not sure?0 -
I'm the same, back problems on the road, not on the turbo. I'm guessing it's more to do with core stability in that riding outside you're using your whole body to balance the bike, which is done for on the turbo.0
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What is your weight and how much psi are you using?
I saw a big difference in ride comfort by lowering psi to 80-85 instead of 100-120 (I am 65kg).
Using 28 tyres if your bike frame supports them can allow you to use even less psi. Also upgrading to a better handlebar and seatpost can help by absorbing more of the road bumps.0 -
zefs wrote:What is your weight and how much psi are you using?
I saw a big difference in ride comfort by lowering psi to 80-85 instead of 100-120 (I am 65kg).
Using 28 tyres if your bike frame supports them can allow you to use even less psi. Also upgrading to a better handlebar and seatpost can help by absorbing more of the road bumps.
Thanks for the replies! I'm running 25's with 90fr/100rr, i'll run them a little lower when i go out tomorrow.
I was out on Sunday and afterwards i got the missus to run her elbow up my spinal erectors. There is a bunched up knot at the mid back area on both sides of the spine, one slightly lower than the other. I gave them a roll out and it felt alot better.
I'm thinking this is the problem, as there are no tender spots in my glutes or lower back. I've got the physio tomorrow afternoon, so i'll see what they are saying about it.0 -
Yes, I have this too. I found if I root myself to the saddle out on the road and limit the out of the saddle efforts it isn't as bad.
I also find stretching the side glutes mid-ride helps i.e. pulling my knee across my chest.
Not sure what the link is there...0 -
Well, the physio found the problem pretty quickly on Friday after massaging out some knots the previous week. Turned out my glutes aren't firing. She commented that i was walking with my hamstrings and gave me some activation drills to do. Before i was getting discomfort about 10 miles in, whereas on Sunday i started feeling it around the 35 mile mark. That was on a ride with 3000ft of climbing over 42 miles and some blustery winds. I did notice that my glutes obviously hadn't been doing their job as i could feel them actually working on the bike for once (getting a nice burn in them)
Also, a slight pain in my right hip that i've had since 2015 that i or a previous physio couldn't shift, has all but cleared up after only a couple of days of the activation drills, so a bit of a double bonus.
If anyone suffering anything similar wants the drills with amount of reps etc, shoot me a PM and i'll pass it on.0 -
DaveyO wrote:Well, the physio found the problem pretty quickly on Friday after massaging out some knots the previous week. Turned out my glutes aren't firing. She commented that i was walking with my hamstrings and gave me some activation drills to do. Before i was getting discomfort about 10 miles in, whereas on Sunday i started feeling it around the 35 mile mark. That was on a ride with 3000ft of climbing over 42 miles and some blustery winds. I did notice that my glutes obviously hadn't been doing their job as i could feel them actually working on the bike for once (getting a nice burn in them)
Also, a slight pain in my right hip that i've had since 2015 that i or a previous physio couldn't shift, has all but cleared up after only a couple of days of the activation drills, so a bit of a double bonus.
If anyone suffering anything similar wants the drills with amount of reps etc, shoot me a PM and i'll pass it on.
Hey man - Very glad to hear you found a solution to your lower back pain. If you don't mind sharing, I am very interested in the drills (amount of reps, etc.). Thanks!0 -
Hi Davey0,
I'd be very interested in your drills, have suffered with lower back pain on the bike for a long time, despite spending a fortune on bike fits.
Will send you a PM.
Ben0 -
Further to my previous post I went to a physio who sorted me out in half an hour.
Turns out it was tightness in the gluteus medius but the stretching I was doing was not direct enough. He stuck his elbow into my hip/butt area for 10 minutes and didn't have back ache for months.
Now I use a spikey ball to get in there but the magic seems to be wearing off so I'm on for a sports massage next week.0 -
cossyrush wrote:Hi Davey0,
I'd be very interested in your drills, have suffered with lower back pain on the bike for a long time, despite spending a fortune on bike fits.
Will send you a PM.
Ben
I, too, have sent DaveyO a PM, but have not heard back. If you hear back, please share - thanks!0 -
For anyone that's still interested, I finally fixed it - The bike fitter that spent a while on cleat positioning and correct arch support (I did use arch supports myself previously) made a great differnce
Basically, I was told that i needed to sit more upright and required a 10mm shorter stem (by more than 1 fitter i should add over the 2 years I've been cycling). I was sceptical of this, so last time i went to Gran Canaria i hired a Cannondale Synapse to give this a try and it ruined the cycling TBH. I last did the VOTT on a higher geared bike in the middle of summer and found on the full compact with the Synapse Geometry this year my back was spasming up - ok, i'm getting somewhere with this i thought, so here's the steps that sorted it once and for all :
*Disclaimer - this is what works for me*
1) Monthly deep tissue massage (Excruciating to start - Calves were terrible for a while, though never bothered me cycling - do not make the mistake that if you have a session and its not painful to stop going)
2) 100 Calf raises a day with one of my kids on my shoulders - this released my calves and in turn hamstrings and quads also got better - only do it now and again to keep on top of it3
3) Every morning a 12 min core work out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI
4) Before every ride : Peanut my back (5 Mins) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWrkZUn ... e=youtu.be
5) Lacrosse ball glutes and piriformis, glutes and TFL (5 mins each side twice a week)
6) Stretching in this order , quad wall stretch, Twisted Half Lizard Quad stretch, IT Band stretch, pigeon pose a couple of hamstring stretches and adductor stretches after every bike ride.
Things started feeling better - the final steps were :
1) Lowering my stem slowly - now run my Madone 7 series with only a 5mm dust cap, so total height 10.5mm (Saddle to stem drop 7.5cm's)
2) Lengthened the stem by 10 mm
3) Played around with saddle tilt - 7 deg nose down is what works best for me
So an aggressive fit, but no stiff necks, shoulders, hands or sliding down saddle and most importantly back is great - i mostly ride on the drops too. And when you're comfortable sustainable power will go up. What i was holding for about 1.5 hours in the 1st quarter of the year i can now hold for twice that.
My overall take on it is, if you are experiencing pain, a bike fit will take you so far or maybe solve it. If you still have some problems, you have to put some work in yourself to sort out your body for a start, then maybe your bike ( I started at the stem height and worked from there - i wrote down what the change was and what difference was felt in certain riding positions and what style of riding eg, pick a hill and spin up it, go back down and grind up it, go back down and stand and pedal, etc)0 -
Road riding is chalk and cheese to turbo riding. There are a thousand different stresses being put on you on the road that you won’t get on a turbo. Get a pro bike fit done and work from there. It takes a while but it’s well worth it.0
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That was pretty much my point - get a good bike fit done and take it from there, but ultimately an individual's physiology has a lot to do with it, that a fitter may not pick up on. Ultimately, my take on being comfortable on the bike is that if the feet are set correctly and saddle height/fore and aft are all good, the front end and pelvis alignment is what works for you!0
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I would look at body core strength and look if tyre pressures could be lowered.
A carbon seat post may help too.================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
DaveyO wrote:For anyone that's still interested, I finally fixed it - The bike fitter that spent a while on cleat positioning and correct arch support (I did use arch supports myself previously) made a great differnce
Basically, I was told that i needed to sit more upright and required a 10mm shorter stem (by more than 1 fitter i should add over the 2 years I've been cycling). I was sceptical of this, so last time i went to Gran Canaria i hired a Cannondale Synapse to give this a try and it ruined the cycling TBH. I last did the VOTT on a higher geared bike in the middle of summer and found on the full compact with the Synapse Geometry this year my back was spasming up - ok, i'm getting somewhere with this i thought, so here's the steps that sorted it once and for all :
*Disclaimer - this is what works for me*
1) Monthly deep tissue massage (Excruciating to start - Calves were terrible for a while, though never bothered me cycling - do not make the mistake that if you have a session and its not painful to stop going)
2) 100 Calf raises a day with one of my kids on my shoulders - this released my calves and in turn hamstrings and quads also got better - only do it now and again to keep on top of it3
3) Every morning a 12 min core work out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI
4) Before every ride : Peanut my back (5 Mins) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWrkZUn ... e=youtu.be
5) Lacrosse ball glutes and piriformis, glutes and TFL (5 mins each side twice a week)
6) Stretching in this order , quad wall stretch, Twisted Half Lizard Quad stretch, IT Band stretch, pigeon pose a couple of hamstring stretches and adductor stretches after every bike ride.
Things started feeling better - the final steps were :
1) Lowering my stem slowly - now run my Madone 7 series with only a 5mm dust cap, so total height 10.5mm (Saddle to stem drop 7.5cm's)
2) Lengthened the stem by 10 mm
3) Played around with saddle tilt - 7 deg nose down is what works best for me
So an aggressive fit, but no stiff necks, shoulders, hands or sliding down saddle and most importantly back is great - i mostly ride on the drops too. And when you're comfortable sustainable power will go up. What i was holding for about 1.5 hours in the 1st quarter of the year i can now hold for twice that.
My overall take on it is, if you are experiencing pain, a bike fit will take you so far or maybe solve it. If you still have some problems, you have to put some work in yourself to sort out your body for a start, then maybe your bike ( I started at the stem height and worked from there - i wrote down what the change was and what difference was felt in certain riding positions and what style of riding eg, pick a hill and spin up it, go back down and grind up it, go back down and stand and pedal, etc)
Thank you!! I am fired up to give this all a try.
I have already been fitted twice by different bike fitters (minor tweak on the second fit). Although I feel very comfortable on the bike, the lingering issue has not gone away... so it appears to be something up with my body. I am ready to try all these stretches, exercises, etc. Again, thank you!0 -
I suspect that the actual solution will be one or two of these. i.e. Sitting more upright and tilting the saddle slightly. Combined with actually cycling outside in the interim.
The rest of it smacks of being a cure for the common cold, as it were. i.e. You go to the doctor regularly for a couple of weeks, get prescribed lemsip, sugar pills, regular meditative periods and hot showers, and after two weeks you feel better. So the doctor has cured you.0 -
As soon as your core strength allows it I’d periodically take my hands completely off of the bars and sit bolt upright for a minute or so. Give my arms and hands a quick shake and give my lower back muscles a short rest. Then get back into normal riding position and crack on. Humans aren’t really designed to be in a drop bar riding position for extended periods so it’s always going to require a bit of time for the muscles and skeleton to adapt no matter how good the bike fit is.0
