Pollution Watch (London)

jamesco

Best to take it easy out there today: "Pollution warning as London air quality alerts are issued."

rick_chasey

Yeah you could taste it.

london-red

jamesco wrote:

Best to take it easy out there today: "Pollution warning as London air quality alerts are issued."

This really makes me want to get out of London...

veronese68

Have to go into town tonight, I was going to ride in but might train and Bobike it as I've still got this pesky cough and that really won't help.

ryan_w-2

I genuinely have had trouble this week with breathing and recovery on my rides.

Never had it before. Thought it was the uber cold air, but this could be a contributing factor also.

bobbygloss

They could try the Oslo approach - ban all diesel vehicles from the city centre for a few days.
http://www.thelocal.no/20170116/oslo-to-implement-temporary-ban-on-diesel-vehicles
Except the ban doesn't apply to delivery vehicles, HGVs, buses, or, apparently, council vehicles.

navt

Do we even know if it is ours? I blame the French. Brexit for cleaner air. Yay!

kingstongraham

Bobbygloss wrote:

They could try the Oslo approach - ban all diesel vehicles from the city centre for a few days.
http://www.thelocal.no/20170116/oslo-to-implement-temporary-ban-on-diesel-vehicles
Except the ban doesn't apply to delivery vehicles, HGVs, buses, or, apparently, council vehicles.

Probably exempt black cabs in London too, in order to make it completely pointless.

veronese68

Bobbygloss wrote:

They could try the Oslo approach - ban all diesel vehicles from the city centre for a few days.
http://www.thelocal.no/20170116/oslo-to-implement-temporary-ban-on-diesel-vehicles
Except the ban doesn't apply to delivery vehicles, HGVs, buses, or, apparently, council vehicles.

I've never understood why we tax vehicles on carbon emissions alone when it's obvious that diesels are polluting all sorts of things.

davis

Veronese68 wrote:

Bobbygloss wrote:

They could try the Oslo approach - ban all diesel vehicles from the city centre for a few days.
http://www.thelocal.no/20170116/oslo-to-implement-temporary-ban-on-diesel-vehicles
Except the ban doesn't apply to delivery vehicles, HGVs, buses, or, apparently, council vehicles.

I've never understood why we tax vehicles on carbon emissions alone when it's obvious that diesels are polluting all sorts of things.

'cos it's easy to measure and administer. That's IMO the only reason. Might as well just get rid of car tax altogether and increase the duty on fuel slightly and thereby charge people for usage, not ownership.

itboffin

why doesnt they allow all taxis through London on the proviso they all switch to electric or hybrid running electric in town, problem solved no?

rick_chasey

Who pays for the refitting ITB?

jamesco

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who pays for the refitting ITB?

The owners of the cabs! 8)

There won't be anymore diesel cabs licensed from 2018 but the existing ones will be grandfathered in for (I think) 15 years...

It's ridiculous that the current stinkers are allowed that long, but I'd bet in 15 years there won't be a black cab industry any longer. Electric & automated vehicles, especially in the new form-factors they allow, will leave black cabs with the same role horse-drawn carriages have today.

jds_1981

You guys are lucky.

I get to breath the finest smog on my commute... This stuff you can really taste...

Pollution along the river lea.

awavey

jds_1981 wrote:

You guys are lucky.

I get to breath the finest smog on my commute... This stuff you can really taste...

Pollution along the river lea.

problem is people take photos like that and then think its just an atmospheric mist, rather than pollution, all last week people were posting these red sky sunset images and tweeting how great the sky looked and you are sitting there thinking yeah it looks nice but its actually a big sign of alot of pollution in the atmosphere.

rick_chasey

Apparently it was so bad y'day that the mayor said all people, fit or ill, should avoid any outdoor exercise.

Have to say, I took it very easy on both rides and felt a real heaviness in my chest in bed last night.

rolf_f

davis wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Bobbygloss wrote:

They could try the Oslo approach - ban all diesel vehicles from the city centre for a few days.
http://www.thelocal.no/20170116/oslo-to-implement-temporary-ban-on-diesel-vehicles
Except the ban doesn't apply to delivery vehicles, HGVs, buses, or, apparently, council vehicles.

I've never understood why we tax vehicles on carbon emissions alone when it's obvious that diesels are polluting all sorts of things.

Might as well just get rid of car tax altogether and increase the duty on fuel slightly and thereby charge people for usage, not ownership.

Then there's no meaningful disincentive to buy a vehicle that has poor emissions.

Man Of Lard

Rolf F wrote:

Then there's no meaningful disincentive to buy a vehicle that has poor emissions.

Of course there is - you pay for every litre of fuel you burn. Your vehicle burns more (either because you took it to congested town or because you bought an inefficient one) then you pay more for the fuel. Might be buttons at 1-2p per litre but whack it up to 50p per litre and it soon hits home.

Anyway what about the case now if you have (say) a Prius and rev the tits off it and do 20mpg or less - you still pay the VED based on it being a low emission hybrid despite your particular case being a high emitter... That would be caught by taxing the fuel more highly.

kingstongraham

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apparently it was so bad y'day that the mayor said all people, fit or ill, should avoid any outdoor exercise.

Have to say, I took it very easy on both rides and felt a real heaviness in my chest in bed last night.

Is it the same advice today? I was going to go for a run in Hyde Park at lunchtime.

rick_chasey

KingstonGraham wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apparently it was so bad y'day that the mayor said all people, fit or ill, should avoid any outdoor exercise.

Have to say, I took it very easy on both rides and felt a real heaviness in my chest in bed last night.

Is it the same advice today? I was going to go for a run in Hyde Park at lunchtime.

Yes.

FWIW my wife had her first asthma attack in over a decade yesterday, walking home from the tube.

kingstongraham

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apparently it was so bad y'day that the mayor said all people, fit or ill, should avoid any outdoor exercise.

Have to say, I took it very easy on both rides and felt a real heaviness in my chest in bed last night.

Is it the same advice today? I was going to go for a run in Hyde Park at lunchtime.

Yes.

FWIW my wife had her first asthma attack in over a decade yesterday, walking home from the tube.

Thanks - took it easy when I had to be on roads and didn't go to Hyde Park but in Hammersmith could taste it.

rjsterry

I see Westminster are going to trial an extra 50% premium on parking charges for diesels around Marylebone. Also Hackney are banning parking by all except electric vehicles in some areas. Dare I think this might be the start of actually making a dent in this?

jamesco

Dare I think this might be the start of actually making a dent in this?

Hope you're right!

At first I was frustrated that there were these alerts and no action, but maybe Khan's plan is to 'denormalise' the pollution first before introducing changes, such as banning/taxing diesel vehicles and woodstoves, or extending the CGZ, all of which would obviously be opposed.

itboffin

seems the taxi company is already one step ahead and spending 400 million developing electric cabs, nice! now all they need is driverless cabs

rjsterry

jamesco wrote:

Dare I think this might be the start of actually making a dent in this?

Hope you're right!

At first I was frustrated that there were these alerts and no action, but maybe Khan's plan is to 'denormalise' the pollution first before introducing changes, such as banning/taxing diesel vehicles and woodstoves, or extending the CGZ, all of which would obviously be opposed.

Fingers crossed. I've 'rediscovered' my childhood asthma symptoms after nearly 30 years thanks to London air. As another indicator, our office on Farringdon Road has a mechanical ventilation system: we are having to replace the filters more frequently than recommended as they are becoming completely clogged and causing the system to shut down.

vpnikolov

http://aqicn.org/city/london/

Something useful on the topic.

anonymousblackfg

itboffin wrote:

seems the taxi company is already one step ahead and spending 400 million developing electric cabs, nice! now all they need is driverless cabs

Yes but all those cvunts with the knowledge have 15 years to change their cabs, so we're still running them after other Europeans would have banned diesels completely.

My local MP has been lobbying for more free parking in high streets, quite the opposite to Rjsterry's good news.

kingstongraham

anonymousblackfg wrote:

itboffin wrote:

seems the taxi company is already one step ahead and spending 400 million developing electric cabs, nice! now all they need is driverless cabs

Yes but all those cvunts with the knowledge have 15 years to change their cabs, so we're still running them after other Europeans would have banned diesels completely.

My local MP has been lobbying for more free parking in high streets, quite the opposite to Rjsterry's good news.

If only electric ones were allowed to use bus lanes they'd change quick enough.

rjsterry

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ap-diesels
Some good news.

veronese68

A lot of people with diesel's get the DPF removed as it can create other problems, especially if used on short runs in town. considering it is their to remove soot particles from the exhaust you can imagine the effect removing it has. If they started prosecuting the places that remove them it might help.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -transport

itboffin

i sold my 740 quite a few years ago now and i practically stopped driving my wife has a 2 ltr diesel and does about 10-12000 miles a year just running the kids around and work, switching to diesel for us cut the cost by 2/3 so you can see the appeal but then again we live in the sticks our nearest shop is 7 miles away.

that said I've made up my mind next year to go electric hybred, my in-laws and several neighbours have already, 4x4 natch!