How Do You Ride Out The Saddle On A Turbo?

deejaysee
deejaysee Posts: 149
edited January 2017 in Road general
Naturally when you ride out the saddle on the road you swing the bike side to side quite a bit but obv on a trainer you cant do this.
I've tried a few times while on Zwift for a little extra power but i just cant do it.

Any tips because i'm either gonna break my bike or the trainer trying
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Comments

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,170
    Don't.
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    I just stand up and pedal .. never had any issues, normally get out the saddle as I hit ~6w/kg and up

    perhaps practice on the road not throwing the bike from side to side ?
  • ryan_w-2
    ryan_w-2 Posts: 1,162
    1,350w + sprint efforts require careful balance! Just get on the drops and try to keep your centre of mass central over the top tube.
    Specialized Allez Sprint Disc --- Specialized S-Works SL7

    IG: RhinosWorkshop
  • deejaysee
    deejaysee Posts: 149
    I cant even get my head around riding stand up and not swinging the bike.
    Its just the way it works lol
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    time to upgrade the turbo to a kinectic smart rock and roller then ??? :D
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    deejaysee wrote:
    Naturally when you ride out the saddle on the road you swing the bike side to side quite a bit but obv on a trainer you cant do this.
    I've tried a few times while on Zwift for a little extra power but i just cant do it.

    Any tips because i'm either gonna break my bike or the trainer trying

    Carefully!

    I've done it a few times - not on Zwift - but on Bkool simulator - you can't rock the bike so must be careful.
    It may overstress your frame too - so perhaps don't do it on your best carbon bike in the trainer ...

    I'm using my wifes winter bike - don't think she'll worry if I break it - means she can get a new one! ;)
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Seriously it can done on a turbo without fretting about breaking your bike.
    Throwing the bike around is wasted energy anyway, so why do it?
    Be smooth, be on the drops, be crouched low over the bars, be centred, control your shoulders and push as hard as you can on the pedals. voila you sprintez vous
  • ifanthecat
    ifanthecat Posts: 5
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Don't.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    deejaysee wrote:
    I cant even get my head around riding stand up and not swinging the bike.
    Its just the way it works lol


    Then don't sprint out of the saddle on the turbo.
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    I don't think I've ever thought about it, I just do it.
  • step83
    step83 Posts: 4,170
    Its not ideal twisting forces chance of biking coming free etc I generally just don't for safety leave it to the ones with fancy wobbly trainers.
    Titanium Px Spitfire
    Easty commuter
    Tripster AT
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    If you want to sprint get a rock n roll or a set of rollers. Sprinting on rollers is easier than you would imagine
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    fat daddy wrote:
    time to upgrade the turbo to a kinectic smart rock and roller then ??? :D
    Being able to practice a smooth pedal stroke without risking damage to the bike (or worse) is the main reason I got a Rock and Roller. Just cos you can, doesn't mean you should.....
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    And that's why I love my Neo. Little side movement does wonders when sprints are needed.
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    deejaysee wrote:
    Naturally when you ride out the saddle on the road you swing the bike side to side quite a bit

    Maybe practice not swinging the bike from side to side on the road
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • AK_jnr
    AK_jnr Posts: 717
    Rocking the bike is wasted energy?! Lol.
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    The bike simply does not move in a Kickr...as the AC/DC song says......solid as a rock!!!!
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    JGSI wrote:
    Seriously it can done on a turbo without fretting about breaking your bike.
    Throwing the bike around is wasted energy anyway, so why do it?
    Be smooth, be on the drops, be crouched low over the bars, be centred, control your shoulders and push as hard as you can on the pedals. voila you sprintez vous

    This. I have done standing on the turbo with a carbon frame for years without problem. Sometimes you need to stand to give your backside a chance to regain some circulation. But, there's no need to rock the bike from side to side wasting energy.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Just try to keep it really smooth, it's fine. Makes you think a bit more about technique on the road as well.

    Trainerroad has some standing drills which I ignore unless I'm bored (about 50% of the time) and I've never had any issues.

    Since I don't have a smart trainer I find it impossible to generate the power required for some of the sprint intervals seated, so I end up sprinting standing at 120rpm - have to start winding it up about 10s before the interval starts, and have to work hard to make sure I'm not twisting the bike.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ...have to start winding it up about 10s before the interval starts, and have to work hard to make sure I'm not twisting the bike.
    I do believe that the original point of the OP was to ask just that......
    How do you work hard to make sure? How do you give it full gas and keep the bike rock steady?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    PBlakeney wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ...have to start winding it up about 10s before the interval starts, and have to work hard to make sure I'm not twisting the bike.
    I do believe that the original point of the OP was to ask just that......
    How do you work hard to make sure? How do you give it full gas and keep the bike rock steady?

    It's pretty subconscious - but I guess if I was breaking it down, I'd say maintain a light grip on the bars (natural reflex is to grip hard and pull on the bike) and try to keep your upper body "quiet". Build the cadence and power up smoothly over a handful of seconds rather than trying to get the lot down instantly. A lot of it is about trying to keep things smooth rather than the natural tendency to try and pull the bike to pieces.

    The first time I tried to do a high-watts sprint like that I thought I was going to wrench the bike out of the turbo trainer and propel myself into the wall, but now I can do it without much extra sideways motion compared to seated.
  • debeli
    debeli Posts: 583
    I think you can ride out of the saddle if you absolutely must..... but why?

    I see people do it when they're about to drop and trying to make the next part of a ramp test.... but really.... why?

    A bicycle on a turbo is not the same as a bicycle on tarmac or trail.

    Similarly, you cannot brush an elbow on the roadside foliage when you're on a turbo. It is not the same as going for a ride.

    There are those with bike-handling skills superior to mine who hop out of the saddle on rollers, but that is above my skill range if I'm working hard.

    Do bicycle stuff on a bicycle and turbo stuff on a turbo.

    Thank you. I hope I have helped.
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    Debeli wrote:
    I think you can ride out of the saddle if you absolutely must..... but why? - A bicycle on a turbo is not the same as a bicycle on tarmac or trail.


    that doesn't mean you cant generate more power when you stand though does it ?

    When sprinting, you start to wind it up at 1k, at 300m you reach threshold at 200 meters go full sprint - yes I could do it sitting down, but then I'll only generate about 600w, if I stand up I'll manage to hit 800+

    when hitting the rolling hills its quicker to just stand for the tiny 4% ramps than it is to change gear up and down consistently

    when racing and you want to suddenly break away and get the guy off your wheel .. especially on a climb, I personally can stay at 6w/kg out of the saddle longer than I can in the saddle

    on long climbs when trying to hold a high power doing a mile out the saddle to relieve the lactic pain is a real benefit.

    Just because its not the road it doesn't mean standing doesn't have its uses ??? ... your argument makes no sense
  • AK_jnr
    AK_jnr Posts: 717
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ...have to start winding it up about 10s before the interval starts, and have to work hard to make sure I'm not twisting the bike.
    I do believe that the original point of the OP was to ask just that......
    How do you work hard to make sure? How do you give it full gas and keep the bike rock steady?

    It's pretty subconscious - but I guess if I was breaking it down, I'd say maintain a light grip on the bars (natural reflex is to grip hard and pull on the bike) and try to keep your upper body "quiet". Build the cadence and power up smoothly over a handful of seconds rather than trying to get the lot down instantly. A lot of it is about trying to keep things smooth rather than the natural tendency to try and pull the bike to pieces.

    The first time I tried to do a high-watts sprint like that I thought I was going to wrench the bike out of the turbo trainer and propel myself into the wall, but now I can do it without much extra sideways motion compared to seated.

    What is the point?! You dont sprint like that on the road so why would you practice it on the turbo?

    Im sorry, but turbos are definitely not place to do sprints. Complete waste of time.
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    AK_jnr wrote:
    What is the point?! You dont sprint like that on the road so why would you practice it on the turbo?
    .

    I am not practicing it ... I am racing other people .. if they get out the saddle and I don't, then they win ... simples.

    not everything has to have a direct correlation to the road.

    My heart rate still reaches 190, my legs still spin round and my quads burn, so there is some cross over ..... but the rest ... its me playing a social game and competing with other people .. THATS the reason
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ...have to start winding it up about 10s before the interval starts, and have to work hard to make sure I'm not twisting the bike.
    I do believe that the original point of the OP was to ask just that......
    How do you work hard to make sure? How do you give it full gas and keep the bike rock steady?

    It's pretty subconscious - but I guess if I was breaking it down, I'd say maintain a light grip on the bars (natural reflex is to grip hard and pull on the bike) and try to keep your upper body "quiet". Build the cadence and power up smoothly over a handful of seconds rather than trying to get the lot down instantly. A lot of it is about trying to keep things smooth rather than the natural tendency to try and pull the bike to pieces.

    The first time I tried to do a high-watts sprint like that I thought I was going to wrench the bike out of the turbo trainer and propel myself into the wall, but now I can do it without much extra sideways motion compared to seated.
    There we go. Finally an answer after nearly 2 pages.
    I'm sure the OP would thank you but I think he got bored some time ago.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    AK_jnr wrote:
    What is the point?! You dont sprint like that on the road so why would you practice it on the turbo?

    Im sorry, but turbos are definitely not place to do sprints. Complete waste of time.
    How do you sprint on the road?
    Never heard of intervals?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • debeli
    debeli Posts: 583
    fat daddy wrote:
    Debeli wrote:
    I think you can ride out of the saddle if you absolutely must..... but why? - A bicycle on a turbo is not the same as a bicycle on tarmac or trail.


    that doesn't mean you cant generate more power when you stand though does it ?

    When sprinting, you start to wind it up at 1k, at 300m you reach threshold at 200 meters go full sprint - yes I could do it sitting down, but then I'll only generate about 600w, if I stand up I'll manage to hit 800+

    when hitting the rolling hills its quicker to just stand for the tiny 4% ramps than it is to change gear up and down consistently

    when racing and you want to suddenly break away and get the guy off your wheel .. especially on a climb, I personally can stay at 6w/kg out of the saddle longer than I can in the saddle

    on long climbs when trying to hold a high power doing a mile out the saddle to relieve the lactic pain is a real benefit.

    Just because its not the road it doesn't mean standing doesn't have its uses ??? ... your argument makes no sense

    I'm sorry if my view seems to make no sense to you. I was trying to offer a response to the OP. I may have failed in this.

    I am/was a keen and regular user of turbos, both in club sessions and alone in the garage loft with daft intervals and rests scrawled on a blackboard on the wall facing me.

    I also used (many years ago) to be a keen rider on rollers.

    Both seem equally valid to me, although I am too old and creaky to do much of either now. I even (once) used to get involved in 10-mile TT racesd on a turbo at Christmas sessions in a club... not very grown up, but somehow silly and fun.

    But my point was this: I do not feel the need ride 'en danseuse' on a static machine. That is for the road or the trail. It can be done, but really.... why?

    I live in Hillsville (not its real name) and spend much of my time out of the saddle.... and I agree with you about popping out of the saddle for a little bump like a hump-back bridge.... but on a Turbo I just don't see much point.

    To me, it would be like looking over one's shoulder on an Ergo.... There is in likely to be another sculler coming towards me, so I wouldn't bother.

    If you race on a turbo, that is lovely and why not pop up out of the saddle. I do not. I suspect that many userts of these pages do not.

    My point may make no sense to you, but I was writing for a wider audience. Perhaps wrongly.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    edited January 2017
    AK_jnr wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ...have to start winding it up about 10s before the interval starts, and have to work hard to make sure I'm not twisting the bike.
    I do believe that the original point of the OP was to ask just that......
    How do you work hard to make sure? How do you give it full gas and keep the bike rock steady?

    It's pretty subconscious - but I guess if I was breaking it down, I'd say maintain a light grip on the bars (natural reflex is to grip hard and pull on the bike) and try to keep your upper body "quiet". Build the cadence and power up smoothly over a handful of seconds rather than trying to get the lot down instantly. A lot of it is about trying to keep things smooth rather than the natural tendency to try and pull the bike to pieces.

    The first time I tried to do a high-watts sprint like that I thought I was going to wrench the bike out of the turbo trainer and propel myself into the wall, but now I can do it without much extra sideways motion compared to seated.

    What is the point?! You dont sprint like that on the road so why would you practice it on the turbo?

    Im sorry, but turbos are definitely not place to do sprints. Complete waste of time.

    Cheers captain condescending.

    Actually I think it has helped my on-road technique because I don't throw my body weight/the bike around so much any more.

    Anyway the reason I have to do it is principally due to the resistance settings on my turbo, requiring a fast wind-up to huge cadence to hit the power targets. I think the "sprint" intervals in the Trainerroad workouts only work out to about 5-600W* so not really the same as a balls to the wall sprint on the road, and would be easily doable sitting down on a smart trainer. Problem is they would require me to set my turbo to a higher resistance which would cut off the low end resistance range (so I'd end up needing to do 50-60rpm to hit the <100W sections).

    I don't find it a complete waste of time at all, so each to his own eh.

    *in the workouts I've done to date.
  • AK_jnr
    AK_jnr Posts: 717
    PBlakeney wrote:
    AK_jnr wrote:
    What is the point?! You dont sprint like that on the road so why would you practice it on the turbo?

    Im sorry, but turbos are definitely not place to do sprints. Complete waste of time.
    How do you sprint on the road?
    Never heard of intervals?

    You think I sprint on the road by maintaining a light grip on the bars, keeping the bike and myself still?
    Without it being a willy waving exercise, if you do that you probably put out about 800 watts so your opinion is useless.

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