Mavic Aksium two loose and seemingly untightenable spokes
Hi, my Mavic Aksium One rear wheel: two spokes are totally loose, and, from a quick attempt without looking into it in any detail, untightenable; they just spin freely. Is there anything that can be done? They're both on the NDS, and there's three good spokes between the two not good ones. Thanks.
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Still under warranty?
Two years I think it is.
Had my rim replaced, on one wheel under warranty, after being about 10 days away from the 2 year mark.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Daniel B wrote:Still under warranty?
Two years I think it is.
Had my rim replaced, on one wheel under warranty, after being about 10 days away from the 2 year mark.
That would be amazing. I hadn't considered that as I bought the wheels, with a bike, second hand. Once you suggested the above I recalled the guy who sold me the bike gave me an envelope with a small number of receipts, and I remembered the wheels are in there! Just found it, bought in June 2015 from Merlin online, but obviously bought by someone else.
Anyway, thanks very much for suggesting that, hope it is two years. That would be fantastic. Thanks.0 -
Most warranties are not transferable...worth a try though.0
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Bobbinogs wrote:Most warranties are not transferable...worth a try though.
I was just typing a further question on that. Would it be worth me contacting the guy who sold me the bike to see if he'd be willing to participate? I'd prefer not to, but if me contacting Merlin rather than him makes it definitely not going to work, it'd be worth it.0 -
I had the same problem on mine.
They use some kind of threadlock on the nipples to stop them coming undone, apparently, and being round straight-pull spokes it's not easy to tighten them. I used a thin piece of rubber wrapped around the spoke (for protection), and then a seriously firm grip with a pair of pliers to try and get a grip of the spoke. That worked, but I still couldn't get the nipple to turn, even with gentle persuasion with a heatgun to soften any threadlock compound on the nipple threads. I suspect it had seized, think they may be aluminium nipples on steel spokes.
In the end I sourced the replacement spokes online - not easy to find in my experience, and you usually have to buy a pack, although that does give you a few spares. Not the best plan, but I cut the offending spoke (it was loose anyway) and then put a fresh spoke in and tightened to the same tension as the other spokes and tweaked it to true the wheel (I do have a spoke tension gauge, but you can usually get away with plucking the spokes and listening to the tone, as a very rough guide).0 -
dee4life2005 wrote:I had the same problem on mine.
They use some kind of threadlock on the nipples to stop them coming undone, apparently, and being round straight-pull spokes it's not easy to tighten them. I used a thin piece of rubber wrapped around the spoke (for protection), and then a seriously firm grip with a pair of pliers to try and get a grip of the spoke. That worked, but I still couldn't get the nipple to turn, even with gentle persuasion with a heatgun to soften any threadlock compound on the nipple threads. I suspect it had seized, think they may be aluminium nipples on steel spokes.
In the end I sourced the replacement spokes online - not easy to find in my experience, and you usually have to buy a pack, although that does give you a few spares. Not the best plan, but I cut the offending spoke (it was loose anyway) and then put a fresh spoke in and tightened to the same tension as the other spokes and tweaked it to true the wheel (I do have a spoke tension gauge, but you can usually get away with plucking the spokes and listening to the tone, as a very rough guide).
Oh right, thanks for that. So it's probably the spokes not rims? I assumed it'd be a rim problem. I guess either's possible then. Going to have a go at the warranty route first, just to see if that's possible.0 -
I never did get to the bottom of why that spoke had come loose, but I did check the rim at the time and it was still round with no flat spots etc. and I also checked that there wasn't any cracks forming at the nipple hole. It was only marginally out of true due to the loose spoke (not a problem as the bike had disc brakes anyway), and it was easily corrected once I'd fitted the new spoke.
If in any doubt then ask your LBS to have a quick look.0 -
Merlin will only deal with the original buyer. They said they don't have any spokes so go to LSB, so they're assuming it's a spoke problem not a rim problem, which does correspond to what you've said dee4life2005.
I suppose if it is a spoke problem and not a rim problem, I assumed rim to start with (where the spoke attaches to it), then it's not as serious as I first feared. Which is good seeing as Merlin isn't going to help.
I could possibly contact the person who I bought the wheels/bike from and ask them to contact Merlin. Not sure.
I don't quite understand this dee4life2005:
They use some kind of threadlock on the nipples to stop them coming undone, apparently, and being round straight-pull spokes it's not easy to tighten them. I used a thin piece of rubber wrapped around the spoke (for protection), and then a seriously firm grip with a pair of pliers to try and get a grip of the spoke.
I haven't taken the rim tape off to see what's going on underneath, but, seeing as the spoke is as loose as anything, I don't see how getting a tight grip is going to help? When turned they're not getting any purchase on anything.0 -
I was talking about getting a gooot grip of the spoke to stop it turning, and then turning the nipple. That assumes that the nipple isn't seized or the threadlock in there. When I looked at my nipples under the rim tape I could see what looked like blue threadlock on the threads.
I wish you good luck in resolving your issue.
btw. It seems that one of my Aksium One wheelsets wanted to join in the fun and my wheel now has a 1cm wobble in it. braw. need to get the spoke tension meter out and see whats going on.0 -
I gave up with Aksiums after the camembert-equivalent freehub died in two (the original & the warranty replacement) for me, both in under 3000km of riding (in benign conditions)... They also have weird (as in non-standard) spokes (compared to other wheels) if I remember correctly.0
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dee4life2005 wrote:I was talking about getting a gooot grip of the spoke to stop it turning, and then turning the nipple. That assumes that the nipple isn't seized or the threadlock in there. When I looked at my nipples under the rim tape I could see what looked like blue threadlock on the threads.
I wish you good luck in resolving your issue.
btw. It seems that one of my Aksium One wheelsets wanted to join in the fun and my wheel now has a 1cm wobble in it. braw. need to get the spoke tension meter out and see whats going on.
OK, thanks. I'll have to take the rim tape off and see what's going on. Thanks.0 -
WIth a slotted piece of wood hold the spoke and then wind the nipple. Remember the nipple screws from the top, so ifyou handle it with a spoke key, you have to turn it clockwise to release the tension and anticlockwise to increase it. It's the opposite if you act on the nipple from its head inside the rim, using a screwdriver or similar.
The nipple is weaker than the spoke and if any thread will break, it will be the nipple one. They are worthless, so don't worry too much... you LBS would be able to give you a few nipples. Should you damage the spoke, that is not a problem either, Aksium use fairly standard straight pull bladed spokes, which can be sourced in all lengths.
Basically you can't do any damage which is expensive to repair, s just have a go at itleft the forum March 20230 -
OK, great, thanks for that.0
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Ugo, are there any tips for dealing with the round straight-pull spokes that Mavic use for the Aksium One Disc wheels (on my CX bike). So far I've tried wrapping a thin piece of rubber around the spoke, and then a really tight grip with a pair of pliers, and it only just works when installing a new spoke/nipple ... but can't get a strong enough grip for those already in the wheel as it looks like they use nyloc nipples, meaning all my efforts just result in the whole spoke turning including the head part in the hub flanges. Had to resort to cutting the spoke out and replacing the last time one worked it's way loose somehow.0
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dee4life2005 wrote:Ugo, are there any tips for dealing with the round straight-pull spokes that Mavic use for the Aksium One Disc wheels (on my CX bike). So far I've tried wrapping a thin piece of rubber around the spoke, and then a really tight grip with a pair of pliers, and it only just works when installing a new spoke/nipple ... but can't get a strong enough grip for those already in the wheel as it looks like they use nyloc nipples, meaning all my efforts just result in the whole spoke turning including the head part in the hub flanges. Had to resort to cutting the spoke out and replacing the last time one worked it's way loose somehow.
Never found a foolproof method... if you do, please shareleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:dee4life2005 wrote:Ugo, are there any tips for dealing with the round straight-pull spokes that Mavic use for the Aksium One Disc wheels (on my CX bike). So far I've tried wrapping a thin piece of rubber around the spoke, and then a really tight grip with a pair of pliers, and it only just works when installing a new spoke/nipple ... but can't get a strong enough grip for those already in the wheel as it looks like they use nyloc nipples, meaning all my efforts just result in the whole spoke turning including the head part in the hub flanges. Had to resort to cutting the spoke out and replacing the last time one worked it's way loose somehow.
Never found a foolproof method... if you do, please share
That does sound like a flawed concept. Unless of course you're designing a wheel that's meant to be disposable...0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:WIth a slotted piece of wood hold the spoke and then wind the nipple.
How do I get at the nipple? I've taken the rim tape off, I can see the nipple through a hole – there's a cm or so between the inside of the rim surface and the nipple itself, and only a pretty small hole to it.0 -
ben----- wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:WIth a slotted piece of wood hold the spoke and then wind the nipple.
How do I get at the nipple? I've taken the rim tape off, I can see the nipple through a hole – there's a cm or so between the inside of the rim surface and the nipple itself, and only a pretty small hole to it.
If a screwdriver won't do it maybe you need a nipple driver. Do Mavic use something odd / proprietary for their nipples?0 -
Does that inside surface/layer come off/out? I guess not. I guess you're supposed to access the nipple through the hole in that surface/layer.0
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I thought a socket set bit would fit, but not. I tried a ones from three different sets. One that was long and thin enough to go through the hole and reach the nipple which was a 5mm one. Didn't fit the nipple itself. So maybe the nipples are 6mm. None of the socket set bits I've got fit/work. Either wouldn't go in the hole, too wide, or not long enough.0
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ben----- wrote:Does that inside surface/layer come off/out? I guess not. I guess you're supposed to access the nipple through the hole in that surface/layer.
Most alloy wheels are like that; a box section for strength. Yes you do have to poke the tool through the hole. Just be grateful you have holes; for some wheels you have to put the nipples into the rim at the valve hole and persuade them round to the spoke holes using a magnet and a lot of swearing.
Do the nipples not have a slot in them so you can use a plain old screwdriver??0 -
So is that nut supposed to be stuck, with some sort of glue, to the rim?
edit, Hi keef66, I posted the above before I saw your message. No, as you can see it's not a screwdriver that's required. Thanks.
I don't actually really understand what I'm trying to do. The nut is spinning on the spoke that's spinning. But, even if I was able to get a tool to turn that nut, … well I don't understand. I guess those nuts are supposed to be stuck to the rim? Maybe.0 -
I just looked at the exploded diagram of an Aksium One Disc rear wheel on Mavic.com. The nipples look like they have a tiny hex head so you do need a tiny, thin-walled socket or maybe something Mavic make themselves. I've never heard of nipples being stuck to a rim; they need to be able to turn to true the wheel. (if you can stop the spoke from turning...)
Can you blast some of the muck out of there?0 -
> I've never heard of nipples being stuck to a rim; they need to be able to turn to true the wheel. (if you can stop the spoke from turning…)
I'm really not getting this!
You say "if you can stop the spoke from turning". When a spoke key is used, to tighten or loosen a spoke, what actually is being turned/screwed there? Is it not the spoke? Anyway, whatever it is that is turned by a spoke key, that obviously screws into something. It appears, as in the photo, to be a nut. Obviously nuts turn. So the spoke key is turning the spoke, and what that screws into is a nut which also turns. Be better, it seems to me, if what the spoke screws into didn't spin.
Is it just a case of, once there's enough tension, the nut will stay still? But in the absence of enough tension it just turns with the spoke? <<< I guess that's it? So when you say, stopping the spoke from turning, it's just while the nut is tightened enough? It won't be hard to stop the spoke spinning; they're the flat bladed ones.
Before I took the rim tape off I was assuming the spokes screwed into something that was fixed to the rim. That's why I thought spokes turning freely might indicate damaged rim.
> Can you blast some of the muck out of there?
Yup, will give that a go probably.0 -
ben----- wrote:> I've never heard of nipples being stuck to a rim; they need to be able to turn to true the wheel. (if you can stop the spoke from turning…)
I'm really not getting this!
You say "if you can stop the spoke from turning". When a spoke key is used, to tighten or loosen a spoke, what actually is being turned/screwed there? Is it not the spoke?
No, most definitely not. A spoke key is used to turn the nipple. Bladed spokes need to be held in place to stop them winding.0 -
BTW, just checked my old Aksium (using it as a temp front wheel) and it has alloy nipples on which can easily be accessed without resorting to fannying about through the rim. Can you post a pic of the other side of the rim, where the spoke is held in place??0
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As far as preventing the round spokes from turning, I did have some success by wrapping thin rubber round the spoke to protect it (might have been an old tube at one point), then using a pair of pliers - but, I then had to use a G-clamp for that little extra force on the plier arms to get enough grip as hand pressure alone wasn't enough!! How the hell they managed to loosen in the first place is a mystery.
With the spoke prevented from turning, I then couldn't get enough purchase with a normal spoke wrench, and had to use my Park Tools nipple wrench (sw-15 i think) through the spoke hole. Seriously considering removing the nipples from each spoke in turn and replacing with brass ones without the threadlock just to make truing the damn things easier the next time :-(0 -
My friend has a set of Aksium Ones and he came round last week with a loose rear NDS spoke.
We used a pair of mole grips with some cloth around the spoke and I found it easy to tighten the nipple using a red Spokey.
He had squirted some freeing oil around the nipple a day before.0 -
ben----- wrote:> I've never heard of nipples being stuck to a rim; they need to be able to turn to true the wheel. (if you can stop the spoke from turning…)
I'm really not getting this!
You say "if you can stop the spoke from turning". When a spoke key is used, to tighten or loosen a spoke, what actually is being turned/screwed there? Is it not the spoke? Anyway, whatever it is that is turned by a spoke key, that obviously screws into something. It appears, as in the photo, to be a nut. Obviously nuts turn. So the spoke key is turning the spoke, and what that screws into is a nut which also turns. Be better, it seems to me, if what the spoke screws into didn't spin.
Is it just a case of, once there's enough tension, the nut will stay still? But in the absence of enough tension it just turns with the spoke? <<< I guess that's it? So when you say, stopping the spoke from turning, it's just while the nut is tightened enough? It won't be hard to stop the spoke spinning; they're the flat bladed ones.
Before I took the rim tape off I was assuming the spokes screwed into something that was fixed to the rim. That's why I thought spokes turning freely might indicate damaged rim.
> Can you blast some of the muck out of there?
Yup, will give that a go probably.
The end of each spoke is threaded, the nipple goes through the hole in the rim and screws on to the threaded end of the spoke. With conventional J-bend spokes threading them through the hub means they cannot turn as the nipples are tightened. Bladed spokes whether J bend or straight pull can easily be held to stop them turning using a slotted tool or similar. Round, straight pull spokes are trickier.
But now you say you have bladed spokes, so all you need is a bit of wood or metal with a suitable slot cut in it to hold the spoke to stop it twisting while you tighten the nipple with a spoke key.0
