What would you upgrade first?
Comments
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POAH wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Don't bother with a dropper at first, learn to ride the bike properly.
my son would disagree with you on that one
That's ok, most kids are wrong.0 -
oxoman wrote:As its a new bike change nothing...Danieljephcott wrote:As mentioned above, don't change anything.oxoman wrote:Danno Remember back in the day we just rode whatever we had we didn't really upgrade and dropper posts didn't exist. Just ride what you've got, upgrade as it goes wrong or your ability improves...
It's a hobby - buy stuff.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
oxoman wrote:Danno Remember back in the day we just rode whatever we had we didn't really upgrade and dropper posts didn't exist. Just ride what you've got, upgrade as it goes wrong or your ability improves beyond the capabilities of the bike. Before buying your mates dropper make sure it's the right diameter for your bike. When you find your riding on the edge or can't seem to improve do a skills course, well worth it.
This. Although I've never done a skills course, everyone I know who has say's they're excellent.0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:POAH wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Don't bother with a dropper at first, learn to ride the bike properly.
my son would disagree with you on that one
As would mine ... what weight is Lewis now ???
Ollie can't get the dropper down with his weight... (either on my Rockshox or the TSMARS which would fit his frame)
no idea on weight but he has shot up in hight as he is starting puberty lol he was 148cm when I measured him the other day but is skinny. The lev DX doesn't take much to go down and the lever action is stupidly light.0 -
oxoman wrote:Danno Remember back in the day we just rode whatever we had we didn't really upgrade and dropper posts didn't exist. Just ride what you've got, upgrade as it goes wrong or your ability improves beyond the capabilities of the bike. Before buying your mates dropper make sure it's the right diameter for your bike. When you find your riding on the edge or can't seem to improve do a skills course, well worth it.
Some of the bikes I've ridden in the past have been horrendous! this will be the first bike I've ridden that is actually worth anything so it'll be a massive improvement over anything I'm used to.0 -
Yes but ... for that photo....Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:
That's a pretty XC looking bike in that photo. Yes trails are being built for the bigger bikes that are more prominent and I'll happily re-phrase and say the majority of trail centre trails are designed to be ridden on XC bikes.
1) The saddle is lowered (your premise is they should ride it without a dropper to "learn to do it right"
2) It's a XC bike so they are nose diving... despite having their bum all the way back.
3) It's a tiny drop off its only a couple of feet ...
I do exactly the same on my XC bike unless I put all my attention on the front wheel height.... then I have to worry about what happens straight after the landing... on my trial bike I don't need to really think about the front wheel position, I drop the post and worry about the trail in front, not fighting a bike that wants to nose dive.
But then what are you saying trail bikes are for if trails are designed for XC ???
Sure their are places like Sherwood that are not "real" red trails -(unless you are on a XC bike and then its a different grading really) but most of the ones I travel to you are going to hurt yourself (quite badly) with the saddle up sooner or later.
My kid (aged 7) went off down a non-technical but fast downhill a month or so ago with his saddle up.... (refused to stop at the top to lower his saddle) ..... and lo and behold he took off had 10'+ of air time and landed with the front wheel first.... he only just avoided going over the bars at 25-30 mph.... he's since learned saddle down for technical descents.
This same run doesn't look much...BUT it killed someone 2-3 years ago and I've seen more serious (ambulance) injuries on that trail than the rest of Swinley put together... and can you guess the common theme of the serious injuries.... people on XC bikes with the saddles up!!!
This is the bit I don't understand you seem to be saying the proper way to ride a 6' drop off is with the saddle in a climbing position. This seems next to suicidal to me and more like a challenge to do wearing full body armour.
... Indeed why not suggest it to GMBN....
Technical grading wise I put Swinley in the middle from the trail centres I've been to ....
Sherwood Red's are less technically challenging than most Swinley Blues... but Forest of Dean or Guisburn Reds make Swinley Reds look like Blues...so my personal (biased because of where I'll drive to) experience is most trials are being geared towards trial bikes... which are no where near the downhill or even Enduro bikes in the bigger picture.
Here is leap of Faith also at Guisburn Forest...
http://biking.tesb1.com/mountain-biking ... rn-forest/
Or loop up Hope Line ....
or Forest of Dean without even going into Bike Park Wales....and Fort William and ....
It's completely possible to ride a road bike on ALL of these if you don't mind breaking it and/or hurting yourself badly
Danny Macaskill and Martyn Ashton are points in case.0 -
POAH wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:POAH wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Don't bother with a dropper at first, learn to ride the bike properly.
my son would disagree with you on that one
As would mine ... what weight is Lewis now ???
Ollie can't get the dropper down with his weight... (either on my Rockshox or the TSMARS which would fit his frame)
no idea on weight but he has shot up in hight as he is starting puberty lol he was 148cm when I measured him the other day but is skinny. The lev DX doesn't take much to go down and the lever action is stupidly light.
Cheers... I could really do with a dropper for Ollie... (see above) though he learned the lesson without getting hurt he realised just how close he was...
I might give him another go with my TMARS (as it needs to be a 29.2 post for his frame) ... but he tried bouncing my reverb last week and it won't drop with his weight...
If he can trigger the TMARS weight-wise I might go ahead and convert an old front shifter to act as the trigger.0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:
Yes but ... for that photo....Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:
That's a pretty XC looking bike in that photo. Yes trails are being built for the bigger bikes that are more prominent and I'll happily re-phrase and say the majority of trail centre trails are designed to be ridden on XC bikes.
1) The saddle is lowered (your premise is they should ride it without a dropper to "learn to do it right"
2) It's a XC bike so they are nose diving... despite having their bum all the way back.
3) It's a tiny drop off its only a couple of feet ...
I do exactly the same on my XC bike unless I put all my attention on the front wheel height.... then I have to worry about what happens straight after the landing... on my trial bike I don't need to really think about the front wheel position, I drop the post and worry about the trail in front, not fighting a bike that wants to nose dive.
But then what are you saying trail bikes are for if trails are designed for XC ???
Sure their are places like Sherwood that are not "real" red trails -(unless you are on a XC bike and then its a different grading really) but most of the ones I travel to you are going to hurt yourself (quite badly) with the saddle up sooner or later.
My kid (aged 7) went off down a non-technical but fast downhill a month or so ago with his saddle up.... (refused to stop at the top to lower his saddle) ..... and lo and behold he took off had 10'+ of air time and landed with the front wheel first.... he only just avoided going over the bars at 25-30 mph.... he's since learned saddle down for technical descents.
This same run doesn't look much...BUT it killed someone 2-3 years ago and I've seen more serious (ambulance) injuries on that trail than the rest of Swinley put together... and can you guess the common theme of the serious injuries.... people on XC bikes with the saddles up!!!
This is the bit I don't understand you seem to be saying the proper way to ride a 6' drop off is with the saddle in a climbing position. This seems next to suicidal to me and more like a challenge to do wearing full body armour.
... Indeed why not suggest it to GMBN....
Technical grading wise I put Swinley in the middle from the trail centres I've been to ....
Sherwood Red's are less technically challenging than most Swinley Blues... but Forest of Dean or Guisburn Reds make Swinley Reds look like Blues...so my personal (biased because of where I'll drive to) experience is most trials are being geared towards trial bikes... which are no where near the downhill or even Enduro bikes in the bigger picture.
Here is leap of Faith also at Guisburn Forest...
http://biking.tesb1.com/mountain-biking ... rn-forest/
Or loop up Hope Line ....
or Forest of Dean without even going into Bike Park Wales....and Fort William and ....
It's completely possible to ride a road bike on ALL of these if you don't mind breaking it and/or hurting yourself badly
Danny Macaskill and Martyn Ashton are points in case.
None of which I disagree with, but the thread was started by someone who says they have never really done any proper mountain biking before so all my comments are in context of the OP. He's not going to be hitting 6 foot + drops, gap jumps etc. All the trails they are likely to be riding at trail centres are designed to be ridden on XC bikes (I've ridden my monstercross bike round most of the black trails at Glentress fine, before that when it was a hardtail I basically never dropped the saddle, even in the Peak District going down The Beast etc.). I don't tend to ride that many trail centres (even less now as I don't have a suspension bike) but I'd happily ride any of the graded trails at Glentress, Innerleithen, Whinlatter or Llandegla with the saddle up on an XC bike.0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Danieljephcott wrote:MTBDanno wrote:Danieljephcott wrote:
Trail centres are designed to be ridden on XC bikes, droppers really aren't a requirement for a new rider.
Cripes.... I'd be scared of breaking by XC bike at the local trail centre.
What are trail bike for then ???
Local trail Centre
Well I ride (and have pretty-much always ridden) my Scott Genius MC10 round the Black route at Glentress - it is DEFINITELY an XC bIke, having been ridden in (admittedly marathon!) races by Thomas Frischknecht https://www.scott-odlo.com/team/thomas-frischknecht/ tells you all about him.
I would also say that the distinction between a "trail" bike and a "cross-country" one is a pretty fine/blurry/non-existent one, since, to me, anyway, when you are riding cross-country you tend to be doing it on trails, and it's kind of difficult to ride a trail WITHOUT going a(Cross) the (Country)side.
If bike companies just got rid of all of the marketing gibberish, they could save (at least) half of their advertising budget and all go out cycling, rather than worrying about which niche they (and, of course, we) were occupying at the time...0 -
6 months ago I hadn't ridden a bike for 15 years and even then it was just to my mates houses and school. I had a voodoo hardtail which I used for a couple of months. Went to Cannock a few times and really struggled with the seat post. Being so high up meant I was worried about going over the bar or setting my seat lower meaning I wasn't riding very efficiently.
I managed to get a second hand reverb and it was a game changer. The confidence boost in getting down and into the frame while going down technical sections or even some fast dh sections was great. Honestly my times on strava changed dramatically.
coming away from the trail centres a dropper is also great when stopping and just popping the seat down rather than standing over the cross bar or being on tip toes
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If like me you get into mtb very quickly then I believe you move from a beginner to a novice fairly quickly. I'm doing bike park Wales next week. Hoping to do the reds, I honestly think if I didn't get my dropper I wouldn't be as far forward as I am.0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:
As cooldad say's thats Swinley.... almost open now.Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Yes, because that's extremely common on all trail centre trails... Where is it?
There are plenty of other reasonable sized jumps at Swinley specifically towards Axle Run and Red 24 has the highest death count at Swinley...
Might never be opened in that form. CE are having second thoughts. It's likely to be heavily sanitised, if it is ever used.
Doesn't worry me too much as I'm a coward.
And they demolished Axle. All gone. I think the guy who died on R24 had a heart attack. Plenty of injuries, but that's the nature of the beast.I don't do smileys.
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Are we confusing "don't bother with a dropper" (which allows you to change seat position on the fly) with "don't bother dropping your seat post manually"?
I can't justify the expense of adding a dropper to a bike which only cost £400 and has relatively limited time out either on cross country or trail centre riding. But that doesn't mean that when I get to bits at places like Llandegla that I find challenging for my limited talent set that I don't get off, drop the post, get back on and ride it. And then when I get to a nice climby bit, I get off, put the post back up, and carry on riding.
Having or not having a dropper isn't the only factor in getting your seat adjusted you know...
I doubt even the most skilled-but-stuck-up-their-own-backside-type that claim trail centres are "little more than canal footpaths marketed as gnarly trails to appeal to the MAMIL equivalent in MTB" would argue that descending red or black runs on a bike with a rigid backend and 100mm XC forks up front with a limited-talent rider on top should be encouraged to have their post equally extended as if it were a long fire-road climb. Just get off and change it manually, and then enjoy the happy days when you splash out on a dropper and you don't have to stop and change as often.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
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2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
cooldad wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:
As cooldad say's thats Swinley.... almost open now.Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Yes, because that's extremely common on all trail centre trails... Where is it?
There are plenty of other reasonable sized jumps at Swinley specifically towards Axle Run and Red 24 has the highest death count at Swinley...
Might never be opened in that form. CE are having second thoughts. It's likely to be heavily sanitised, if it is ever used.
When I was riding there a while back I ran into a bunch of riders who were spending the day questioning other riders. They were something to do with the development of the place and it didn't take long for the conversation to get onto the subject of the problems that health and safety gives them and how nothing will ever be too mental there, even if they want it to be.
Me too.cooldad wrote:Doesn't worry me too much as I'm a coward.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
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Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:
None of which I disagree with, but the thread was started by someone who says they have never really done any proper mountain biking before so all my comments are in context of the OP. He's not going to be hitting 6 foot + drops, gap jumps etc. All the trails they are likely to be riding at trail centres are designed to be ridden on XC bikes (I've ridden my monstercross bike round most of the black trails at Glentress fine, before that when it was a hardtail I basically never dropped the saddle, even in the Peak District going down The Beast etc.). I don't tend to ride that many trail centres (even less now as I don't have a suspension bike) but I'd happily ride any of the graded trails at Glentress, Innerleithen, Whinlatter or Llandegla with the saddle up on an XC bike.
Yes its all possible... as I say Danny could ride a road bike or "shopping bike" (as could Martyn before his last injury) but it doesn't make it the "correct way" and especially for inexperienced riders is particularly dangerous.
Last time I did a full sommersault on my XC bike I laughed it off (rather nervously but people were watching)... I missed hitting my head on the stone by the height of a go-pro and managed to land more or less on my feet...
Anyway, I landed OK but I could easily have landed on my back on rock.... but that's probably due to a lot of experience and luck at not crippling myself BEFORE dropper posts were even thought of..
Equally I can keep my front wheel up on my XC bike.... back to the days of monster stems... but putting my attention into that detracts from planning the next corner, root or jump....
BUT .... I really don't think today's noobies should go through the risk.
Out of the 6 of us that used to go mountain biking in the 80's only 2 of us have escaped life changing injuries, the other escapee now does mostly XC (and is still winning XC races in the US in the 47-50 class). The other 4 have permanent injuries that are only half down to us being young and foolish....
The bigger part retrospectively was down to bike design at the time.
Modern trail bikes are just much much safer..... not only brakes but the balance/geometry and dare I say droppers and "modern" trails are quickly changing to meet the newer bikes.
I'm not racing so I'm not bothered about the weight of a dropper BUT I'd like to drive home not be taken away in an ambulance and the dropper is part of that. Used properly it makes really bad OTB and landing on your head or spine really much less likely....
It also really helps "proper riding position".... I have my saddle a good inch higher at the top with the dropper (and right size cranks) but if I have it that high without its a real struggle to get my weight back.
I'd quite honestly vote the dropper the last 2 decades most significant invention for trails... and say it actually helps proper riding technique rather than prevents it.
Swinley Red 25 is a really good example.... its not particularly technical but its fast and the rather small jumps are just "little bumps" that with some compression give you a lot of horizontal air.... (my kid clocks this at 29 mph and I wouldn't argue) ... We have seen so many ambulance evacs from this one short trail... and because people don't expect the amount of air and end up going over the bars when they land..
Its not that its impossible to descend with a XC bike and saddle up (I've done it many times) but if something unexpected happens your chance of a serious injury is much much higher - pretty much like back in the 80's.
It just seems daft to me not to use what I'd class as a modern safety invention...0 -
Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.0
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MTBDanno wrote:Danieljephcott wrote:MTBDanno wrote:Danieljephcott wrote:
Does it matter that the Nukeproof evo pedals are composite rather than metal? I've always thought of plastic pedals as cheap and nasty.
Evos are great. Composite doesn't bend like metal can! They're as strong as anything, and uber grippy. Just be careful of those pins on your shins! Clothing is always worth investing in. A decent pair of baggy shorts, jersey, good trail helmet, gloves.Daddy, Husband, Designer, Biker, Gamer, Geek
Bird Aeris 120 | Boardman Team 650b | Boardman Pro FS | Calibre Two.two0 -
cooldad wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:
As cooldad say's thats Swinley.... almost open now.Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Yes, because that's extremely common on all trail centre trails... Where is it?
There are plenty of other reasonable sized jumps at Swinley specifically towards Axle Run and Red 24 has the highest death count at Swinley...
Might never be opened in that form. CE are having second thoughts. It's likely to be heavily sanitised, if it is ever used.
Doesn't worry me too much as I'm a coward.
And they demolished Axle. All gone. I think the guy who died on R24 had a heart attack. Plenty of injuries, but that's the nature of the beast.
R24 was head/neck injury there was another death from heart attack but the R24 was a head injury
I've seen loads of OTB's on that one route.... indeed I've called two of them in.
The last one the womans friends had been ahead so I stayed with her for a while.... the whole time I had to bite my tongue and not ask "why on earth is your saddle up - do you really think you're so good"... I didn't as she had a dislocated shoulder and broken arm and it wasn't appropriate .... my kid actually saw it (I was waiting for him to clear the route before blasting down)... and it was yet another OTB on a landing.
Axle run is reopen.... perhaps unofficially but rode it 2 weeks ago.... I think they (someone) removed the actual "axle"
Personally I'd like to see the new bike park opened....if only so that most of those who push up single track trials will move here... it's also much safer the current zone of which Axle is just one of 5 runs is a long distance for ambulances and the jumps are all prone to ending up halfway up a tree with only slight error!
Yes agreed but there are injuries and Injuries....Plenty of injuries, but that's the nature of the beast.
Ones that end in broken spines tend to be more serious.... and XC bikes and incorrect saddle are large factors that lead to broken spines if you are not doing "tricks"... The more dedicated the XC is the more it will hug the ground but on trials this also easily results in OTB at speed... when the landing is a tree or especially rock that's the serious injury... height is less relevant for most of us than forwards speed and what you land on both in terms of the body part and surface....
The picture earlier shows a "XC type bike" and the front wheel is WAY WAY below the rear.... if that catches on a root or rock on landing despite them being well back over the rear wheel they will struggle NOT to go OTB....
If the wheels were more balanced on that drop-off then it wouldn't matter. They might fall off but not land on their spine... and I'll take a broken leg over broken spine anyday.... it's not a very big drop off.... (its not small either) about the size of the one at the end of Red 21.... (or whatever number the official route is from next to Axle run)0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.
No, the dropper is optional but lowering the saddle for technical descents isn't (really) unless you happen to be an experienced rider...
Proper technique for XC racing is not the same as proper technique for general riding....(or DH or Enduro)
Your posts seem to indicate that a dropper post will prevent proper technique for a beginner and I'm saying it's the exact opposite unless the beginner wants specifically to race XC.
From my personal experience Swinley is fairly average in grading.... whereas somewhere like Sherwood is technically very low.(the red seems to be based on effort rather than technical)... so Sherwood red only has one drop-off worth noting and that's optional.... given its a XC course that's fine but I don't think its "average" in terms of technical grading.
Today's "average red" is going to have a few drop offs and possibly jumps and indeed the main difference to a black is they are optional... and unless you are racing or training XC proper position is saddle down not up.... even if that means stopping at the top.. (as I do on my kids bike) but having a dropper makes it much easier to adjust saddle into a safer position
The newer trail specific bikes are built around this, certainly the ones I tried... so with the saddle at least partly down they don't dive over drop-offs or out of jumps
As someone who grew-up with longer stems and fixed saddles I can (should I wish) do this on my XC bike even with the saddle-up... but I don't think that's the best/safest way.... it was just what we had when I started riding...0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.
No, the dropper is optional but lowering the saddle for technical descents isn't (really) unless you happen to be an experienced rider...
Proper technique for XC racing is not the same as proper technique for general riding....(or DH or Enduro)
Your posts seem to indicate that a dropper post will prevent proper technique for a beginner and I'm saying it's the exact opposite unless the beginner wants specifically to race XC.
This is where we differ then.0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.
No, the dropper is optional but lowering the saddle for technical descents isn't (really) unless you happen to be an experienced rider...
Proper technique for XC racing is not the same as proper technique for general riding....(or DH or Enduro)
Your posts seem to indicate that a dropper post will prevent proper technique for a beginner and I'm saying it's the exact opposite unless the beginner wants specifically to race XC.
This is where we differ then.
Which part???
I'm still not sure what you are suggesting...
Are you proposing the correct way down a 1' drop off is with the front wheel hugging the ground ?? Like the earlier picture ???
or are you saying it doesn't matter where the saddle is ???
The latter is more debatable than the former IMHO....because sooner or later the former will end up with OTB
It's certainly possible to keep the front wheel up in a drop off on a XC bike with the seat in a climbing position... it's just a lot more effort and unless you want to do XC racing a skill we no longer need due to trail specific bikes and dropper posts.
To draw an analogy with downhill ski-ing its like learning to snowplough before learning to parallel ...
Before shorter ski's were available, common wisdom was you learned how to snowplough before parallel.. but unless you were either teaching someone to ski or doing XC skiing you'd never use a snowplough again... it was merely a stage in a process... and all but useless in real life once you are skiing (and indeed held many back as they didn't have confidence to do runs because they couldn't stop)
Now we have shorter ski's and even snowblades... you can jump straight into parallel turns. the advantage being these will actually stop you... which is really useful if you want to stop before going over the 100' drop...
To me having a QR at least or preferably a dropper lets someone starting out accelerate the whole process into having fun and confidence. Of course with some frame (my XC frame being one) you don't have a QR option, indeed I can't really adjust saddle height on the trail at all ... as its an internal clamp and unless you do it properly the chance of wrecking the bolt or damaging the carbon is pretty high...
This however isn't something I think the beginner should be worrying about... they can have fun and gain confidence and should they decide to get into XC then they can learn how to handle the XC bike and saddle position...0 -
I think the top XC boys are starting to use droppers, at least some of them ...
http://www.mtb-mag.com/en/the-day-when-xc-pros-decided-to-use-dropper-posts/
http://www.mtb-mag.com/en/spy-shot-nino-schurter-on-full-sus-bike-w-dropper-post/0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.
No, the dropper is optional but lowering the saddle for technical descents isn't (really) unless you happen to be an experienced rider...
Proper technique for XC racing is not the same as proper technique for general riding....(or DH or Enduro)
Your posts seem to indicate that a dropper post will prevent proper technique for a beginner and I'm saying it's the exact opposite unless the beginner wants specifically to race XC.
This is where we differ then.
Which part???
I'm still not sure what you are suggesting...
I've made it bold for you.0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.
No, the dropper is optional but lowering the saddle for technical descents isn't (really) unless you happen to be an experienced rider...
Proper technique for XC racing is not the same as proper technique for general riding....(or DH or Enduro)
Your posts seem to indicate that a dropper post will prevent proper technique for a beginner and I'm saying it's the exact opposite unless the beginner wants specifically to race XC.
This is where we differ then.
Which part???
I'm still not sure what you are suggesting...
I've made it bold for you.
Ah so your its your definition of correct technique differs from mine. Your seems more about finishing either 1st or DNF rather than finishing consistently.
I tend to go with the consistently finishing and not being taken away in an ambulance being preferable to winning any single race. If you come 2nd or 3rd in that race you always have the next one instead of waiting until next season when your able to ride again.0 -
Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve-XcT wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Steve, it seems like you think me saying to a new rider not to bother with a dropper post at the moment is me saying that no-one should use them and anyone who does can't ride properly. That's not the case.
No, the dropper is optional but lowering the saddle for technical descents isn't (really) unless you happen to be an experienced rider...
Proper technique for XC racing is not the same as proper technique for general riding....(or DH or Enduro)
Your posts seem to indicate that a dropper post will prevent proper technique for a beginner and I'm saying it's the exact opposite unless the beginner wants specifically to race XC.
This is where we differ then.
Which part???
I'm still not sure what you are suggesting...
I've made it bold for you.
Ah so your its your definition of correct technique differs from mine. Your seems more about finishing either 1st or DNF rather than finishing consistently.
I tend to go with the consistently finishing and not being taken away in an ambulance being preferable to winning any single race. If you come 2nd or 3rd in that race you always have the next one instead of waiting until next season when your able to ride again.
Not really, it's you who brought up XC racing, drop offs and jumps when the OP is about a novice who isn't going to be encountering anything like that for a least a 2-3 months if they are sensible.
I just think, when starting out and riding easier stuff, everyone should learn to handle the bike without having to move the seat out of the way. When you first start doing proper MTB easy things most plow through can look difficult. If someone starts to think they need a dropper even to ride blue trails I think they will struggle when things get really steep. I've also seen people using a dropper and just dropping their arse downwards rather than out over the back. I think unless they have someone picking them up on it then it teaches them poor technique that is harder to correct later down the line. A rigid seatpost (static? or just seatpost?) forces the rider to get out over the wheel or stay over the seat which, for a novice riding easier stuff, is probably where they should be.
I'll point out I also think everyone should speed time on the road riding a fixed wheel and should take a road bike off-road so my views on how best to learn might be different to others.0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:I'll point out I also think everyone should speed time on the road riding a fixed wheel and should take a road bike off-road so my views on how best to learn might be different to others.
and this is why no one will pay attention to anything you say in this thread lol0 -
POAH wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:I'll point out I also think everyone should speed time on the road riding a fixed wheel and should take a road bike off-road so my views on how best to learn might be different to others.
and this is why no one will pay attention to anything you say in this thread lol
Weakling alert.0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:POAH wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:I'll point out I also think everyone should speed time on the road riding a fixed wheel and should take a road bike off-road so my views on how best to learn might be different to others.
and this is why no one will pay attention to anything you say in this thread lol
Weakling alert.
When I was a lad, a century or so ago, there were no such things as mountain bikes. We flipped the drops on our racing bikes and got on with it.
But your advice is still sh1t.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0 -
cooldad wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:POAH wrote:Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:I'll point out I also think everyone should speed time on the road riding a fixed wheel and should take a road bike off-road so my views on how best to learn might be different to others.
and this is why no one will pay attention to anything you say in this thread lol
Weakling alert.
When I was a lad, a century or so ago, there were no such things as mountain bikes. We flipped the drops on our racing bikes and got on with it.
But your advice is still sh1t.
Makes two of us then. On the second point that is.0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Not really, it's you who brought up XC racing, drop offs and jumps when the OP is about a novice who isn't going to be encountering anything like that for a least a 2-3 months if they are sensible.
I just think, when starting out and riding easier stuff, everyone should learn to handle the bike without having to move the seat out of the way. When you first start doing proper MTB easy things most plow through can look difficult. If someone starts to think they need a dropper even to ride blue trails I think they will struggle when things get really steep. I've also seen people using a dropper and just dropping their ars* downwards rather than out over the back. I think unless they have someone picking them up on it then it teaches them poor technique that is harder to correct later down the line. A rigid seatpost (static? or just seatpost?) forces the rider to get out over the wheel or stay over the seat which, for a novice riding easier stuff, is probably where they should be.
I'll point out I also think everyone should speed time on the road riding a fixed wheel and should take a road bike off-road so my views on how best to learn might be different to others.
Not putting your weight far enough back is poor technique but one that is easily remedied when learning to manual and is far less likely to cause serious injury than not dropping the saddle at all....
I view the dropper as a modern piece of safety equipment for an intrinsically dangerous sport/hobby.
In the absence of a dropper a QR clamp
When talking about new novices the most important thing I'd think of is them not having a serious accident ...
Everything else is just progression ... in the direction they choose.
Better to be a weakling with working legs than a macho wheelchair user. (Nothing against Martyn here)Weakling alert.0 -
How on Earth does having a fixed post teach you proper technique?All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070
