Battle on the Beach

imposter2.0

You need to offset the time you might gain using a CX on the beach, to the time you might lose by not having an MTB in the woods. That's all I'm saying. You're never stuck behind someone for too long in the woods anyway - there's usually a way around.

devhads

I've got a rigid carbon fork on my 29er and it's quite a light bike. I could fit a massive tyre on the front but CBA as it's set up nicely tubeless. I'm still not sure that my technical skills are any better on it than on my cross bike. I spend more time on my cross bike and feel more comfortable on it even on technical stuff, so all in all I think the cross bike will be faster for me. If your technical riding vastly improves on an MTB compared to a cross then it may not be the case.

tgotb

Imposter wrote:

You need to offset the time you might gain using a CX on the beach, to the time you might lose by not having an MTB in the woods. That's all I'm saying. You're never stuck behind someone for too long in the woods anyway - there's usually a way around.

The first 3-4 miles is almost a road race; last 2 years, the first couple of bunches have been doing something betwen 25-30mph. Speaking from experience, if you can make it off the beach with these riders, you'll get through the first bottleneck and the rest of the first lap pretty much unimpeded. From what other riders were saying, that was definitely not the case further back in the field.

This is a 700-rider race, with sections of single track. At a rather optimistic one rider every 2 seconds, it's going to take nearly half an hour for the field to get through that first section of single track; there's no way round that. The real race isn't to the finish, it's to that first bottleneck.

If it were a time trial around the same course I might agree with you, but in such a huge field the dynamics couldn't be more different.

imposter2.0

TGOTB wrote:

If it were a time trial around the same course I might agree with you, but in such a huge field the dynamics couldn't be more different.

The thing is though, first and second last year were two guys on flat bar 29ers. They obviously didn't see the same need for a drop bar bike.

bendertherobot

Imposter wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

If it were a time trial around the same course I might agree with you, but in such a huge field the dynamics couldn't be more different.

The thing is though, first and second last year were two guys on flat bar 29ers. They obviously didn't see the same need for a drop bar bike.

29ers tends to suggest a MTB though. A CX is a 29er. The winners were on rigid bikes with flat bars. Optimum tyres. Behind were Koga beach racers with flat bars. It's probably better to have a wider bar/different bar given the length of the course but there's not a huge amount of difference in those bikes.

imposter2.0

Depends on the definition of MTB I guess. 29er MTB is what I originally said. Rigid makes sense as there is little need for FS, although most have lockout. First and second last year were on 29er rigid MTB-style frames with narrow flat bars (and cantis, ironically, but that's beside the point).

Anyway, going back to my original point, I'm simply saying that I don't feel you are disadvantaged on a 29er MTB and in my own experience I don't think a CX is any faster up the beach, although it obviously depends who is pushing the pedals. There have been plenty of MTBs in the top 10 in each year to date. Ben Simmons got 3rd in the 2014 event on a Charge Cooker, I think.

bendertherobot

Imposter wrote:

Depends on the definition of MTB I guess. 29er MTB is what I originally said. Rigid makes sense as there is little need for FS, although most have lockout. First and second last year were on 29er rigid MTB-style frames with narrow flat bars (and cantis, ironically, but that's beside the point).

Anyway, going back to my original point, I'm simply saying that I don't feel you are disadvantaged on a 29er MTB and in my own experience I don't think a CX is any faster up the beach, although it obviously depends who is pushing the pedals. There have been plenty of MTBs in the top 10 in each year to date. Ben Simmons got 3rd in the 2014 event on a Charge Cooker, I think.

Yes. But 29er suggests suspension as well. Though I know what you mean. There's more too it, naturally, than just bars. Gearing has an effect, ditto tyre choice. A CX on Schwable G-One with a CX double will be 'miles' ahead of normally geared 29ers on knobblies by beach end. Move the 29er to balloon like tyres and that closes. Give it a bit more gearing and it's non existent. So we can certainly generalise but, broadly, it won't be won on a 29er with suspension and knobblies.

imposter2.0

bendertherobot wrote:

So we can certainly generalise but, broadly, it won't be won on a 29er with suspension and knobblies.

Maybe not, but it has already been won on something very similar. Either way, I strongly suspect that any of the top 5-10 finishers would probably have finished in the same/similar placings regardless of what they were riding (apart from the 99p/downhill nonsense mentioned earlier)

dhp3

Imposter wrote:

I think 'dhp3' might be a troll account...

Thanks but nope.

My point was - racing is often more about fitness than the bike and in this type of terrain and with the risk of a strong headwind a mountain bike with middle sized tyres and narrow flat bars might actually not be the worst bike to be racing.

And yes, with some pretty impressive fitness levels its not impossible to win on a cheapy mountain bike.

Are 36mm tyres sufficient?

imposter2.0

dhp3 wrote:

My point was - racing is often more about fitness than the bike and in this type of terrain and with the risk of a strong headwind a mountain bike with middle sized tyres and narrow flat bars might actually not be the worst bike to be racing.

And yes, with some pretty impressive fitness levels its not impossible to win on a cheapy mountain bike.

That's pretty much what we've been discussing earlier - and it's true of practically every racing discipline.

dhp3 wrote:

Are 36mm tyres sufficient?

They weren't sufficient for me last time. You won't know if they're sufficient for you until you try them.

tgotb

dhp3 wrote:

My point was - racing is often more about fitness than the bike and in this type of terrain and with the risk of a strong headwind a mountain bike with middle sized tyres and narrow flat bars might actually not be the worst bike to be racing.

Eh? What is it about a mountain bike that makes it better suited for a strong headwind than other bikes?

The stronger the headwind, the more I'd want to be on a CX bike...

Imposter wrote:

dhp3 wrote:

dhp3 wrote:

Are 36mm tyres sufficient?

They weren't sufficient for me last time. You won't know if they're sufficient for you until you try them.

I was quite happy on 33mm.

bendertherobot

I was on 35c G-One. Issues with grip on one 100 yard section. Otherwise superb. If I could fit it I might try 40c for the looser sand sections but I'm quite happy with skinny tyres.

Just checked out the KOM on lap 1 (beach). It's an average of 28 ish mph.

bendertherobot

2 weeks to go...........................

bendertherobot

Current forecast, which will change of course, has sun, 10 degrees and an almost non existent Northerly wind.

Can we BE that lucky?

veronese68

bendertherobot wrote:

Can we BE that lucky?

Yes, because I won't be there.

imposter2.0

The Met Office can't even accurately predict this afternoon's forecast, let alone two weeks ahead.

bendertherobot

Imposter wrote:

The Met Office can't even accurately predict this afternoon's forecast, let alone two weeks ahead.

It depends what it is. It's hard to pinpoint locality issues but trends are pretty good. And, if you have a massive 1020mb high pressure cell, it tends to be dry, tends to be.

The signals are ok at the moment for high pressure. Low pressure this weekend does, statistically, balance out having it the following.

So, fingers crossed.

imposter2.0

Hope you're right. My feelings towards the met office are probably skewed by their forecast of a dry Saturday afternoon, which turned out to be the complete opposite. They were still showing a dry forecast as the rain came down. I wouldn't trust them to tell me the time, let alone anything more complex.

devhads

Now we've sorted out which bike is best and the weather, any advice on gearing and tyres. Currently thinking 42t front 11-36 rear and Chicanes??

bendertherobot

Sounds ok. Looks to be dry down there, puddle of doom almost non existent. Chicane should be ok I reckon. Gearing seems fine as well. I think I had 44 11-36 last year.

tgotb

I did it on standard CX gearing last year (which for me is 38x12-32) and was fine. If your highest gear is good for 30mph with whatever cadence you prefer, you'll be fine.

You'll also be way ahead of me, my fitness is basically non-existent...

bendertherobot

bendertherobot

Deffo won't be as warm as the above but looking increasingly like a brisk easterly. Which is awesome.

bendertherobot

Beach is gonna be very fast indeed.......

craigmorgan

It was fast enough last year, the first lap was good fun on the cross bike.....the single bumpy track as soon as we turned off the beach not so much

bendertherobot

craigmorgan wrote:

It was fast enough last year, the first lap was good fun on the cross bike.....the single bumpy track as soon as we turned off the beach not so much

Gonna be faster this year. Northerly may have an effect on that grassy bit but it's still reasonably sheltered. Rest should be fine. Going to be kind of warm/windchill as well. Arguably warmer than last year.

bendertherobot

imposter2.0

Weather looks fairly reasonable at the moment..

bendertherobot

It won't change now. Massive tailwind, shouldn't have any effect at all on the return leg given the shelter.

Reasonably warm. May even need shades...........

craigmorgan

bendertherobot wrote:

It won't change now. Massive tailwind, shouldn't have any effect at all on the return leg given the shelter.

Reasonably warm. May even need shades...........

Time to start faffing about with tyres.....last year i just ran my cyclocross tubs, might do the same again