Battle on the Beach

veronese68

Anyone entered for this year? I seem to have suffered a fit of stupidity. :oops:

bendertherobot

Yep. 3rd year of being sober enough to enter card details at midnight. Entered the weekend again so Battle in the Dark on the Saturday. Not bloody camping though, gonna find a hotel.

veronese68

I read the thread on last year's event, haven't managed your write up yet. Still not sure wether to take the Cotic or the CX. I can just fit 41mm tyres on the CX but it's tight at the back. Presumably not much sticky mud so clearance is not the issue it could be at other times. But the MTB should be quicker through the singletrack so might be better as I will be less likely to hold people up.

ugo.santalucia

Veronese68 wrote:

Anyone entered for this year? I seem to have suffered a fit of stupidity. :oops:

Quite a big one, I'd say...

bendertherobot

Veronese68 wrote:

I read the thread on last year's event, haven't managed your write up yet. Still not sure wether to take the Cotic or the CX. I can just fit 41mm tyres on the CX but it's tight at the back. Presumably not much sticky mud so clearance is not the issue it could be at other times. But the MTB should be quicker through the singletrack so might be better as I will be less likely to hold people up.

Last 2 years there's been a slight tailwind. So the CX'ers have absolutely flown up the beach in top gear. I was doing 21-22mph or so easily with peaks of 25 or so. The winners were getting close to 30 mph. That's a considerable margin to take onto the singletrack and it's really only the dunes that see the fat bikes getting real traction. The rest is simply about comfort. I will try, I think, once again to see if I can obtain a fat bike for the purpose of testing it but will probably fail, so the SuperX it is.

Also bear in mind that I ran Schwable G-One last year and only slipped on one very small section of mud. There's very little mud anywhere. I will run the X-One this year for that bit more but you could run 40c slicks on this and still be competetive.

veronese68

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Anyone entered for this year? I seem to have suffered a fit of stupidity. :oops:

Quite a big one, I'd say...

You're not wrong. I'll be pleased if I'm not last.

LeePaton

Somehow just entered...

It's the same day as our local MTB Series starts probably should have just entered that but screw it this will be a bit different.

now to make the impossible decision of MTB or CX

cjcp

Veronese68 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Anyone entered for this year? I seem to have suffered a fit of stupidity. :oops:

Quite a big one, I'd say...

You're not wrong. I'll be pleased if I'm not last.

As with Veronese, I've entered too, as has TGOTB of these parts.

CX bike with 33mm tyres for me.

veronese68

cjcp wrote:

As with Veronese, I've entered too, as has TGOTB of these parts.

I should probably have stuck to providing post ride beers.

mikpem

I'm in too, I don't have a MTB so that decision is made for me, my choice is whether to use the scrappy pit bike and mangle it a bit or use my decent race bike and expect to spend a lot replacing bits.
I'm most definitely just in it for the experience, I hadn't even considered it but a friend that was visiting for New Years was entering and I decided it was a good idea.
I probably have to look at what I've actually signed up for now.

roger_merriman

Veronese68 wrote:

cjcp wrote:

As with Veronese, I've entered too, as has TGOTB of these parts.

I should probably have stuck to providing post ride beers.

The sand will clean up the disk brake pads wonderfully! I've been able to de oil pads on the old MTB by beach riding admittedly I went further i.e. right up to the sea/rock pools but it did clean the pads up wonderfully!

looks very much CX/gravel bike sort of route, looking at various youtube stuff, what single track is a fairly smooth, not as technical as Swinley even which though jiggly is perfectly rideable on a CX.

tgotb

Last year's course (and there's no reason to think this year's won't be the same) consisted of a long drag race down the beach, followed by some wide forest roads and then some more mixed terrain including single track. The only part that wasn't consistently rideable on a CX bike was the first 50 yards or so of the beach.

From a racing perspective, the defining point of the race was the start of the first bit of single track, maybe 60% of the way into lap 1. If you were near the front of the field when you arrived here you could ride straight through; riders further back in the field reported long hold-ups. Even if the course is changed, with a field of ~800 there's going to be a bottleneck somewhere, and you need whatever bike's going to get you to that point most quickly, almost without regard for the rest of the course. This means you need to be able to hang in the bunch (and preferably gain ground) at 25-30mph on firm sand; for me, a standard CX bike with 33mm file treads was perfect for this, and didn't cause any major issues on the rest of the course (even the isolated muddy bits). It doesn't matter how nimble your MTB is on single track; if you get held up at the first bottleneck you're losing ground that's going to be very hard to make up.

I was pretty shot towards the end of the third lap, and had a couple of near-wipeouts caused by dodgy bike handling. Depending how fit I am at the end of March, I might consider switching to a 29er for the final lap.

cyclingsheep

But the real question is who is doing the night TT?

bendertherobot

Me, again.

veronese68

cyclingsheep wrote:

But the real question is who is doing the night TT?

I've got an entry but not sure if I'll make it as I may stay at a friends place about an hour away. Is the night one complete insanity? I'm going to be slow so should I give it a miss? But it will be an experience which is why I've signed up for the whole thing.

bendertherobot

No, it's quite nice actually and attended by only a relatively small number. I went about 4th last year and wasn't even passed.

cjcp

Need some input from those more in the know about CX tyres.

I'm torn between the Clement Crusade PDXes or the Clement MXPs for this race.

I've used the PDXes for CX racing, but this BOTB course seems to favour MXPs.

Currently running Mud 2s, but they'll be worn before this race comes round.

Any thoughts from the hive mind?

cyclingsheep

You won't need anything aggressive, there's very little mud and the best place for gains is the Beach. Something like file treads with good side knobs are probably best

cjcp

Cheers!

tgotb

cjcp wrote:

Currently running Mud 2s, but they'll be worn before this race comes round.

How? Are you using them to ride to work or something?

I've got a set of Clement LAS that you can have; I'll be on the Vittoria equivalent, which worked well last year. I only rejected the Clements because they don't work so well with my tubeless setup.

Key points:
- The important part of the course (from a doing well perspective) is the beach.
- Because the rest of the course is just behind the beach it's very well drained, so there are very few sections with any real mud
- Even the muddy bits aren't *that* muddy
- File treads are a lot better than you think in mud

Thinking back to last year, I reckon the total distance over which muds (or even intermediates) would have been noticeably better than file treads was less than 100 yards per lap.

bendertherobot

Yep. I used Schwalbe G-One and never thought about needing a different tyre. I'd go 40c balloon (as much as 40c can be) if I could.

This set up is pretty much optimum:

https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/race/coll ... tm?frame=H

cjcp

TGOTB wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Currently running Mud 2s, but they'll be worn before this race comes round.

How? Are you using them to ride to work or something?

I've got a set of Clement LAS that you can have; I'll be on the Vittoria equivalent, which worked well last year. I only rejected the Clements because they don't work so well with my tubeless setup.

Key points:
- The important part of the course (from a doing well perspective) is the beach.
- Because the rest of the course is just behind the beach it's very well drained, so there are very few sections with any real mud
- Even the muddy bits aren't *that* muddy
- File treads are a lot better than you think in mud

Thinking back to last year, I reckon the total distance over which muds (or even intermediates) would have been noticeably better than file treads was less than 100 yards per lap.

Yep, am using them on the commute for the moment, partly to try to sneak in some trail fun in RP on the way to work.

Appreciate the offer. May not have scope to buy two sets of tyres (want some mud-specific tyres too) as I need to get a new wheelset , but I'll drop you a text once I've totted up the contents of my Wiggle trolley and what exactly the damage will be...

BTR - that's rather nice...

bendertherobot

That's what the winners will be riding, almost guaranteed.

veronese68

Looks like I'm out. I have to go to Denmark for work that weekend and after a year of avoiding seeing customers and a lot of working from home I'm not in a good position to refuse. Still never been to Denmark before so it may be interesting, unfortunately I'll be at a classic car show talking about oil.
Anybody know someone that wants my place?

dhp3

Really looking forward to this!!!

I've got the choice of a downhill bike or a road bike.

cjcp wrote:

CX bike with 33mm tyres for me.

I think I have about 36mm of clearance on my frame so I'm tempted to go for 36 but not sure which tyre yet.

The downhill bike will be in the boot just in case I'm in the mood for some suffering on the day...

I reckon that given the right conditions a 99p second hand basic old mountain bike off ebay could beat the pros on this course. Tempted to invest in one just to prove the point.

bendertherobot

Define 'right conditions' you'd be very hard pushed to beat the pros in this event unless you're a pro.

Last 2 years there's been a tailwind on the beach which is actually statistically unusual. We're due a headwind. That may negate a cross bike's ability to get up to some massive speeds but they'll still come out ahead. In the forests it's simply about speed, handling and fitness.

The Pro riders are generally on cross bike/beach racer things. They are very very fast.

imposter2.0

I think 'dhp3' might be a troll account...

devhads

bendertherobot wrote:

Define 'right conditions' you'd be very hard pushed to beat the pros in this event unless you're a pro.

Last 2 years there's been a tailwind on the beach which is actually statistically unusual. We're due a headwind. That may negate a cross bike's ability to get up to some massive speeds but they'll still come out ahead. In the forests it's simply about speed, handling and fitness.

The Pro riders are generally on cross bike/beach racer things. They are very very fast.

I'd think a headwind would suit a cross bike relative to an MTB due to the fact that you will be able to get in to a more aerodynamic position.

I've not decided what to ride yet. I've convinced a team mate to enter who doesn't own an MTB so in solidarity I will probably ride the cross bike. May ride the MTB on the Saturday night.

imposter2.0

My own view is that a 29er MTB is 'optimum' for this event. Yes a CX is probably more aero/faster on the beach, but in terms of lap time, you spend relatively little time on the beach and the majority riding back through the forest/trails, where an MTB scores much better.

It's do-able on either. If I was doing it again, I would take the MTB, not the CX.

bendertherobot

Much depends on what/who you are as well. A 29er may be optimal for most people. But a pro v a pro with one a beach racer will see the beach racer win IMO.

I wonder whether the optimal might be a rigid fork 29er. Bit pacier. Balloon tyres.

I'll stick with the SuperX this year but may go 40C G One at the front with 33c X One (normal) at the rear.

tgotb

Imposter wrote:

My own view is that a 29er MTB is 'optimum' for this event. Yes a CX is probably more aero/faster on the beach, but in terms of lap time, you spend relatively little time on the beach and the majority riding back through the forest/trails, where an MTB scores much better.

Not quite - you may spend relatively little time on the beach, but that's where the best opportunity lies to gain places, and in particular get to the first bottleneck ahead of the masses. It matters little that your MTB is better through the narrow winding stuff if you're stuck behind other riders.

I lost a bit of time in the 3rd lap last year, because I was knackered and making silly mistakes. For me, it might have worked better to leave a 29er in the pits and change after lap 2. I probably won't do that, though, because I'm not sure how secure the pits are (or even where they are).