Told tonight that my rear light 'is too bright and illegal'....?

Websta24

Personally i find a constant rear light not a problem. If its blinking then it can be terribly distracting and blinding. Front lights flashing....has the same effect as a bloody strobe light!!

Some lights are just ridiculous. Far too bright.

First.Aspect

apreading wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

A bright rear light enables your pool of light, or the effect on road signs, to be seen before you are. That's the point. Perhaps I should have said "twisty" unlit roads.

Rubbish!

<some stuff>

Well, given that the human eye is relatively insensitive to red light, I'm struggling to see how a 70 lumen rear light can be particularly problematic.

As for the rest, "rubbish" is indeed a perfect heading for your post.

On an unlit unclassified road, cars can be approaching from behind at 50+ mph faster than me. I'd much rather maximise the chances of their perceiving a flashing light on a tree or road sign, and also increase the chance that they will have seen me some distance further back.

I was once cycling at night on Dartmoor, when I had to fish a family out of their overturned car. The ambulance driver said he could see my lights a minute or two earlier (which was several crests and turns further down the road) and so knew to expect to come upon me.

But go ahead with using a rear light that gives out 1.5-glimmers, if you want.

apreading

First Aspect wrote:

apreading wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

A bright rear light enables your pool of light, or the effect on road signs, to be seen before you are. That's the point. Perhaps I should have said "twisty" unlit roads.

Rubbish!

<some stuff>

Well, given that the human eye is relatively insensitive to red light, I'm struggling to see how a 70 lumen rear light can be particularly problematic.

As for the rest, "rubbish" is indeed a perfect heading for your post.

On an unlit unclassified road, cars can be approaching from behind at 50+ mph faster than me. I'd much rather maximise the chances of their perceiving a flashing light on a tree or road sign, and also increase the chance that they will have seen me some distance further back.

I was once cycling at night on Dartmoor, when I had to fish a family out of their overturned car. The ambulance driver said he could see my lights a minute or two earlier (which was several crests and turns further down the road) and so knew to expect to come upon me.

But go ahead with using a rear light that gives out 1.5-glimmers, if you want.

More utter drivel. A 30 lumen rear light is visible for miles on unlit roads. More than good enough for drivers to react. You only need more when you are competing with other light sources such as the sun or really bright lighting in towns (and the latter is debateable). Does a driver coming up behind you really need a minute or two to slow down and react??? And if you really cant see how a 70 lumen rear light can be a problem then try looking directly at yours next time you turn it on - you wont be able to see for some time afterwards...

First.Aspect

Or, alternatively, don't look directly at it. Works for me with car headlights and lasers.

Do you have a problem with the sun, as well? How about shiny things? Are you easily hypnotized?

kingstongraham

First Aspect wrote:

Or, alternatively, don't look directly at it. Works for me with car headlights and lasers.

Do you have a problem with the sun, as well? How about shiny things? Are you easily hypnotized?

Great examples. I'm sure noone's ever been dazzled by too bright car headlights, lasers or the sun.

apreading

First Aspect wrote:

Or, alternatively, don't look directly at it. Works for me with car headlights and lasers.

Do you have a problem with the sun, as well? How about shiny things? Are you easily hypnotized?

That hole you are digging keeps getting deeper... Now you are saying that drivers following you or coming towards you from the front should not look at the road directly in front of them? So what, they have to drive by looking out of their side windows at the hedgerow they are passing???

And yes, I do have a problem with the sun when it is low and rising/setting and I am heading directly towards it - so do most people who like to look where they are going! Other times when it is high in the sky then no, I dont have a problem, but pilots do if they are heading straight towards it.

First.Aspect

apreading wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Or, alternatively, don't look directly at it. Works for me with car headlights and lasers.

Do you have a problem with the sun, as well? How about shiny things? Are you easily hypnotized?

That hole you are digging keeps getting deeper... Now you are saying that drivers following you or coming towards you from the front should not look at the road directly in front of them? So what, they have to drive by looking out of their side windows at the hedgerow they are passing???

And yes, I do have a problem with the sun when it is low and rising/setting and I am heading directly towards it - so do most people who like to look where they are going! Other times when it is high in the sky then no, I dont have a problem, but pilots do if they are heading straight towards it.

No, I'm suggesting that its somehow possible to not to be dazzled by things far brighter than a 70 lumen red light. Such as oncoming car headlights, for example.

Its complex, I know.

I've done some digging. From what I can tell, car brake/fog lights are about 400Lm and rear lights are in the range 50-100Lm, typically.

So, damn those cars that dazzle me every time they overtake.

cougie

Just park the bike in w dark area and then walk back from it to see how bright it is. Clearly you can have lights too bright.

apreading

First Aspect wrote:

Its complex, I know.

I've done some digging. From what I can tell, car brake/fog lights are about 400Lm and rear lights are in the range 50-100Lm, typically.

So, damn those cars that dazzle me every time they overtake.

I have no idea how many lumens car rear lights put out but I do know that if I stand a couple of metres from the back of my car the lights dont dazzle me, if I stand that far from my Moon Nebula running at 100 lumens it certainly does - it leaves a spot on my retina when I close my eyes for a short while afterwards. Maybe thats because the car lights give those lumens out over a much wider surface area (the lights are bigger so give out more lumens without being so bright) whereas the bike light gives all its lumens out from a small point so is much brighter at that point.

Try it yourself - stand behind your car then stand behind your bike at the same distance. Its really not as complex as you make it sound.

First.Aspect

apreading wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Its complex, I know.

I've done some digging. From what I can tell, car brake/fog lights are about 400Lm and rear lights are in the range 50-100Lm, typically.

So, damn those cars that dazzle me every time they overtake.

I have no idea how many lumens car rear lights put out but I do know that if I stand a couple of metres from the back of my car the lights dont dazzle me, if I stand that far from my Moon Nebula running at 100 lumens it certainly does - it leaves a spot on my retina when I close my eyes for a short while afterwards. Maybe thats because the car lights give those lumens out over a much wider surface area (the lights are bigger so give out more lumens without being so bright) whereas the bike light gives all its lumens out from a small point so is much brighter at that point.

Try it yourself - stand behind your car then stand behind your bike at the same distance. Its really not as complex as you make it sound.

You know I wasn't serious about it being complex?

I can leave a mark on my retina staring at the LEDs in my Xmas tree lights if I get close enough.

So your light will blind anyone a couple of metres behind you? Good.

svetty

Enough already!

diy

I run a pair of lights capable of about 1,000 Lumen each (CREE XP-L at 2.5A), but I always have them pointed down and usually run them on low. For a tail light, to be honest I use £1 shop lights and many of them. Its more about being seen than penetrating the dark at the back.

defycomp2

Modern Xenon and LED car headlights without washers are limited to 2000Lm so 3200 is probably a bit excessive

hambini

I run an exposure 6Pack on full (3000 lumens?) for my commute to work. I regularly get flashed at but I do note that cars do not cut me up anywhere near as much. After you've been in a collision with a car, it really changes your view on lighting. I used to have lights to "be seen", now it's to "see".

Bobbinogs

hambini wrote:

I run an exposure 6Pack on full (3000 lumens?) for my commute to work. I regularly get flashed at but I do note that cars do not cut me up anywhere near as much. After you've been in a collision with a car, it really changes your view on lighting. I used to have lights to "be seen", now it's to "see".

Bonkers. So the solution to not getting seen prior to an accident is to take the stance of blinding all oncoming traffic, seriously? You really don't need 3000 lumens to see on most roads and, if you do, then you should be taking all reasonable steps to ensure you do not dazzle oncoming traffic.

frisbee

Chinese lumens aren't the same as normal lumens.

Having driven recently for the first time in a while, I didn't find any lights blinding, I mistook a couple of riders side by side for a car - which was impressive, there were some rear lights that were completely inadequate though.

Sounds like the driver the OP encountered wasn't very experienced, maybe sat too close behind and for too long.

awiseman

I haven't seen any lights that are blinding either, but I have seen plenty that make it very hard to actually see the cyclist. Some drivers will complain at anything and I'd rather put my own safety first and ensure I can bee seen than not.

earth

Over bright rear lights are annoying. I either have to overtake or let them get far enough ahead to be out of sight.

If I compare bike lights to car lights I have to assume that brightness of a light is not the only variable. There must be quantity of light. Car headlamp and rear lights do a great job of flooding the road ahead and being seen from a distance without being as bright as bike lights.

andyeb

I've both been blinded by other cyclists lights (front & rear) and been shouted at by other road users for having excessively bright lights.

I don't really think there's any ideal compromise on the front light - you need enough light to be able to see far enough ahead, especially when descending at speed on unlit country roads, but not so bright as to dazzle other road users. I tend to switch between the 3 power levels on my 2x 1200 lumen eBay special lights and most of the time run with just one switched on, with a replacement lens which spreads the light horizontally across the road. The other one is more of a spot which I point further down the road and only use on faster/quieter bits of the commute.

But for rear lights, I feel there is a definite "bright enough to be seen" level, beyond which you are just being obnoxious. I'd go for multiple smaller lights over one really big dazzling rear light.

stevie63

What I do know is that pretty much none of the cyclists I saw today had adequate lighting for the foggy conditions. I was overtaken by one cyclist whose rear light was so dull that I couldn't see it once they were about 10 metres ahead. And as for the 2 who passed me the other way with no lights at all-pretty unbelievable espescially as it was a minor A road with a fair bit of traffic.

apreading

Fog does change the game. Hence why cars have fog lights. Put the power up on your rear lights in proper fog. However doing the same on the front might actually lessen your visibility - you have to try it and see based on the conditions.

fudgey

Dont worry about the Chinese front light i have.. I cant find the charger and the battery is flat so just the 500lm for now. Bit of a bugger as i have only used it once!

Planning on commuting this week, so will see what happens!

thomasmorris

hambini wrote:

After you've been in a collision with a car, it really changes your view on lighting. I used to have lights to "be seen", now it's to "see".

Did you hit the car because you couldn't see it? And now have brighter lights so you can see better?

Lights appear more dazzling when they put out more lumens, in a focused beam from a small source.

Bike lights are much smaller than car head lamps, so when you look at them they seem brighter for the same output. Lights which focus their output into a small 'spot' also appear brighter when that spot is shone in your eyes.

A lot of people wrongly think that adding more lumen will make them more visible. I think this is only true for those running cheap replaceable battery lights which are running out (and you do see that A LOT).

Beyond about 10-30 lumen, all that seems to happen, unless angled well down, is you stop other road users seeing past you. That makes it harder for others to take in the road conditions around you... i think that's making the situation more dangerous.

If you want to be more visible, try putting on more lights about your person. It's then less likely to be an issue if one light is obscured. Also try light which have a larger area (COB style) or glow stick / spoke lights.

Basically, to be seen, you want to have a larger visual footprint, rather than a brighter single light ousrce.

Tashman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6nUxnnChTQ
Just saw this