Told tonight that my rear light 'is too bright and illegal'....?
Comments
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Fudgey wrote:do you crash a lot
No only ever had one crash over 25 years ago and it was non fault thanks.0 -
Slowbike wrote:wishitwasallflat wrote:would you be happy driving a car and not being able to look past the car directly infront of you to see what ahead because their rear lights are blinding ?
Yes I would be - I can't think of any instances where I have felt the need to see beyond the car in front of me, except when contemplating overtaking. When doing that, if visibility was at all a problem, for any reason, I would never try to overtake and would just wait until it was safe.
I suggest you go and take some driving lessons then - and if you apply the same logic to group riding then please don't ever sit on my wheel.
You should ALWAYS look ahead - well ahead preferably - otherwise you're just reacting to the immeadiate vehicle in front - this is what leads to long tailbacks on motorways for no reason other than one person touches their brakes, the following car brakes a bit harder and so on ... if we left a bit of space and looked well ahead we could anticipate the vehicle in front slowing down and ease off before we had to touch the brakes.
To drive in a way that required me to see the road ahead, beyond the vehicle immediately in front of me, in the dark, when that vehicle had lights so bright they were blinding me, to be safe, is not an attractive option thanks. I think I will just continue to take the slow down and drop well behind them, where I am not blinded and have loads of time to react option thanks.
Also Ive never riden in a group cause Im too slow so no need to worry about that as at my age Im not getting faster so never will.0 -
I picked up a couple of Knog Blinders at the weekend (a bargainous £8 a pop at Planet X) and they're pretty bright! The Eyeballer front light was good enough for me to navigate my way home on unlit bike paths tonight. After having a quick check of the various modes of the rear I've decided the constant low mode is more than enough for the dark - I'll save the bright flash modes for daytime.0
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Ok in future ill not use the flash modes at night. The roads i try to stick to are not heavy traffic routes, i was passed twice on that on section of road, once by the complainant and then just one other car after he passed me the second time.
But said roads are shocking in condition at some points so good lights are needed.
Also i mostly ride on my own, sometimes with a mate.
Also a tip for Knog users, dont leave the light on the seatpost all the time - the straps have a habit of splitting. My first one was on the bike 3 months and the strap split, but I had only used it about 6 times between charges.
Now i only put its replacement on when i use it.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
It's like driving behind a car with fog lights on, it isn't so much that the red light blinds you, rather your pupils close and you can't take the rest of the ambient light in.
I tend to use my Exposure Flare on medium blink, the light pulses so it is fairly easy to spot whilst still being possible to judge the distance.
The brightest mode on my old Lezyne hectodrive was actually labeled "daytime mode". Not needed on dark lanes.0 -
The other problem with cheap eBay torches is beam shape. Torches are designed with a circular beam and will always blind oncoming drivers. The good road cycling lights have very fancy lens to have a horizontal cutoff so that oncoming drivers/cyclists/walkers are not blinded.
I would suggest that that number of lumens in a torch pattern is dangerous and illegal for use in this country as being likely to create a hazard to driving like shining a laser at an oncoming car.
certainly in europe you would be pulled up pretty sharpish by the plod for an illegal light.0 -
keef66 wrote:bompington wrote:The Highway code says you must turn foglights off when it's not foggy. I'd say that some rear bike lights are much worse for dazzle than foglights.
It's a pet peeve of mine when in a queue of traffic and the driver in front sits there with his foot on the brake pedal blinding me with his high level brake lights.
This is also one of mine, it is as if drivers who do this seem to think that setting the handbrake is to much of an effort and will slow their journey unnecessarily. Likewise why do so many muppets insisting on driving with their front fogs lights on, when conditions do not warrant it, as stated in the HW code?
Rule 114 You MUST NOT
•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
•use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226).
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
Law RVLR reg 270 -
kayakerchris wrote:The other problem with cheap eBay torches is beam shape. Torches are designed with a circular beam and will always blind oncoming drivers. The good road cycling lights have very fancy lens to have a horizontal cutoff so that oncoming drivers/cyclists/walkers are not blinded.
I would suggest that that number of lumens in a torch pattern is dangerous and illegal for use in this country as being likely to create a hazard to driving like shining a laser at an oncoming car.
certainly in europe you would be pulled up pretty sharpish by the plod for an illegal light.
Check the big lights thread over on mtb buying - there is a really quick cheap way to shape the beam on torches with pieces of headlamp deflector (freznel material horizontally accross the top of the lens) which costs just 3-4 quid. Achieves exactly the same as an expensive beam shaping lens bike light. I use torches and angle them down so they create a long oval pool of light on the road in front of me. One has an op reflector so its a wide short beam in front of front wheel. My other one has a bigger smooth reflector so has a longer throw and I can get a long thin oval shaped pool of light ahead.
Point is, with a bit of thought and learning from the wise folks over on mtb buying, very high lumen, cheap torches make excellent, safe, cheap road bike lights that dont dazzle.0 -
Ok in future ill not use the flash modes at night.
Woah are you sure you want to change your set up, that appears to have worked for you - apart from one encounter, with one driver, that sounds like it was a bit unpleasant - based upon stuff said on an internet forum*?
Im sure I read that there is good scientific evidence that a flashing light catches attention better, but, a constant beam makes it easier for those behind to judge how far ahead of them you are. The conclusion was best thing is to have one rear light set on constant and one flashing. Now the research on how bright they should be shows clearly that ....... !
* Yes I do include my own contributions when suggesting taking whats written here with a large pinch of salt.0 -
kayakerchris wrote:certainly in europe you would be pulled up pretty sharpish by the plod for an illegal light.
The Plods in Europe probably would and probably shoot you as well... in all fairness probably shoot an errant car driver for not having his breathalizer kit .. however
we are in dingy dirty disgusting (at times) Britain..0 -
wishitwasallflat wrote:Slowbike wrote:wishitwasallflat wrote:would you be happy driving a car and not being able to look past the car directly infront of you to see what ahead because their rear lights are blinding ?
Yes I would be - I can't think of any instances where I have felt the need to see beyond the car in front of me, except when contemplating overtaking. When doing that, if visibility was at all a problem, for any reason, I would never try to overtake and would just wait until it was safe.
I suggest you go and take some driving lessons then - and if you apply the same logic to group riding then please don't ever sit on my wheel.
You should ALWAYS look ahead - well ahead preferably - otherwise you're just reacting to the immeadiate vehicle in front - this is what leads to long tailbacks on motorways for no reason other than one person touches their brakes, the following car brakes a bit harder and so on ... if we left a bit of space and looked well ahead we could anticipate the vehicle in front slowing down and ease off before we had to touch the brakes.
To drive in a way that required me to see the road ahead, beyond the vehicle immediately in front of me, in the dark, when that vehicle had lights so bright they were blinding me, to be safe, is not an attractive option thanks. I think I will just continue to take the slow down and drop well behind them, where I am not blinded and have loads of time to react option thanks.
You said you can't think of any instances where you've felt the need to see beyond the car in front - with the only exception being for overtaking - which says to me that you drive looking at the boot/back lights of the vehicle in front - regardless of the situation - as I and several others have pointed out - that's not the right way to drive.
I concur with your suggestion on those who have rear lights that are too bright - drop back - or if appropriate - overtake - the problem with the latter - is that the rear lights can be too bright blocking your vision of the road ahead - which was where this thread started - the main issue being that the two vehicles have very different speed capabilities.
that's ok then ...wishitwasallflat wrote:Also Ive never riden in a group cause Im too slow so no need to worry about that as at my age Im not getting faster so never will.0 -
wishitwasallflat wrote:...
Check the big lights thread over on mtb buying - there is a really quick cheap way to shape the beam on torches with pieces of headlamp deflector (freznel material horizontally accross the top of the lens) which costs just 3-4 quid. ....
I've just done that on a 501b. Well worth the effort (took a couple of goes to get it right) & a about 3 quid imo. Not sure it's as good as Stvzo(?) compliant lights though but still an improvement.There is no secret ingredient...0 -
kayakerchris wrote:
certainly in europe you would be pulled up pretty sharpish by the plod for an illegal light.
Really ? I'd have thought we'd have a lot better bike specific lights if this is the case ?
I can't believe the Torch market is serving just the UK ?0 -
I've been dazzled by far too many car drivers' headlights at night to care one bit what some irate moron says. Our lights are too bright, or too small, or non-existent; we're not wearing hivis, or we're wearing too much Lycra; we're going too fast, we're going too slow, we're too far out, we shouldn't be on the roads etc etc.
What it boils down to is that motorists are only willing to share the road with other motorists (and despite their grumpy faces, they seem to love clumping together in something called a "traffic jam". Which is why they hate people on bikes.They use their cars as shopping baskets; they use their cars as overcoats.0 -
The Cyclist of Catan wrote:What it boils down to is that motorists are only willing to share the road with other motorists
I am not sure that's true ..... car drivers hate busses, shout at each other, get annoyed at motorcycles, hurl abuse at delivery trucks, block taxis
Car drivers ... and I say this with a certain amount of irony seeing that I am one .... but driving a car just turns you in a complete cnut for at leat 10% of your journey0 -
The Cyclist of Catan wrote:I've been dazzled by far too many car drivers' headlights at night to care one bit what some irate moron says. Our lights are too bright, or too small, or non-existent; we're not wearing hivis, or we're wearing too much Lycra; we're going too fast, we're going too slow, we're too far out, we shouldn't be on the roads etc etc.
Well said!0 -
RichK wrote:wishitwasallflat wrote:...
Check the big lights thread over on mtb buying - there is a really quick cheap way to shape the beam on torches with pieces of headlamp deflector (freznel material horizontally accross the top of the lens) which costs just 3-4 quid. ....
I've just done that on a 501b. Well worth the effort (took a couple of goes to get it right) & a about 3 quid imo. Not sure it's as good as Stvzo(?) compliant lights though but still an improvement.
That big lights thread is an amazing resource, lots of expert posters and the cost savings are staggering even taking into consideration the usual - its for a bike so we can make it dearer premium - we have to endure.0 -
You said you can't think of any instances where you've felt the need to see beyond the car in front - with the only exception being for overtaking - which says to me that you drive looking at the boot/back lights of the vehicle in front - regardless of the situation
No thats way too literal and limited an interpretation of what I wrote. My main focus is certainly on the vehicle immediately in front of me and keeping a safe distance from that vehicle in order to be able to react. If its light and I can see beyond to the road ahead of course I dont deliberatly ignore that or try not to look.
If I did drive only ever looking at the boot in front of me I doubt very much I would have lived to post here - and - may I suggest, if you think about it, that is a bit obvious and its disingenous to interpret my comment as indicating that I do?
I stand by the fact that my main focus is the vehicle in front and my ability to react to it. That is what my driving instrutor taught me to do and because I passed my test first time, with no faults and have only ever had one accident (no fault), Ive never doubted what I was taught.
We are also talking here in the context of journeys in the darkness and, while I have never experienced the situation, if there was ever any vehicle, in front of me, with lights so bright they blinded me, I would never consider doing anything other than getting way far back from them. As an example of my feel9ngs on this I have, a few times, been behind vehicles which made dangerous moves and I have actually stopped for 5 minutes or so to let them go ahead, before restarting my journey.
Im not trying to say I am some exemplar of good driving, or cycling, but stand by my two main arguments:
Bike lights should be bright they can be seen from further away and the driver cited in the op's post sounds like a dick,
Arguably anything that makes road users slow down is good - IME the vast majority of road users main focus is on getting where they are going, quickly, with precious little regard for risk or consideration of how bad it would actually be if their journay took a bit longer. If we all asked ourselves why a little more time on the journey would be such a big problem, I would bet many would slow down and that, I would argue, is the single biggest contribution we could make to safer roads for all.0 -
My take for what its worth.
As a cyclist: Its good that he was complaining about the brightness means there was no issues seeing you.
As a driver: Would people not complain about someone else coming head on with their high beam on? Course you would, why? because it prevents you from seeing the road.
Would you sit and moan about a driver who has his fog light/s on in normal driving conditions? Yes probably, why? because it dazzles/distracts you.
He driver has a point, may have been able to articulate it better but he has a point.0 -
I'll just add to this thread my comments made a couple of weeks ago on other threads here;
(from this thread viewtopic.php?f=40052&t=13073448)Secteur wrote:I noticed last winter and more so this winter, for the first time - and presumably due to technology catching up, that bike front lights have all too often become TOO bright, and it's like a car coming at you with it's high beams on. They can blind you and really make it tricky for drivers. As you are dazzled by the ultra-bright or incorrectly angled front light of the oncoming bike, you become blind to anything in front and to the side of you - not so much cars, but a darker cyclist with a less powerful rear red light...
And
(from this thread; viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=13070923)Secteur wrote:Just make sure it's angled down at the road, not up high to dazzle and blind oncoming cars if you get one of the more recent mega bright lights that are becoming available. Happening more and more on my drive home and is akin to cars driving towards you with their high beams on. Don't give 'em yet another reason to hate us!
'Too bright" lights will be the "next big thing" to bash cyclists with. Please let's not help feed them!0 -
Well while some bike lights can be too bright nearly all kodern car lights are too bright. They cause me discomfort. So yes the driver the op encountered is a dick and should be stopping other car drivers particularly 4x4's and hiving them a piece of his mind. I'd pay to watch that.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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Yeah, the main reason motorists stop and have a go at cyclists with bright lights is because its acceptable to stop and have a go at cyclists.thecycleclinic wrote:Well while some bike lights can be too bright nearly all kodern car lights are too bright. They cause me discomfort. So yes the driver the op encountered is a dick and should be stopping other car drivers particularly 4x4's and hiving them a piece of his mind. I'd pay to watch that.
I despair at people here advocating less bright rear lights. Get a life, or keep one. If you have to use unlit roads in winter, you would not have this opinion. It is however probably true that "disruptive" flashing patterns make it harder to judge speed of approach.
All that said, 3.2k Lumens is absurd, and at least three times as much as you need to ride at full speed on a road bike at night. It isn't safer to have blind motorists coming towards you - I mean, they aren't going to stop just because they can't see anything, are they?0 -
First Aspect wrote:
I despair at people here advocating less bright rear lights. Get a life, or keep one. If you have to use unlit roads in winter, you would not have this opinion. It is however probably true that "disruptive" flashing patterns make it harder to judge speed of approach.
All that said, 3.2k Lumens is absurd, and at least three times as much as you need to ride at full speed on a road bike at night. It isn't safer to have blind motorists coming towards you - I mean, they aren't going to stop just because they can't see anything, are they?
The thing is, unlit roads in winter was exactly what I used to ride and I think there are plenty of people that ride with too bright unsafe lights.
A few points - some cars will slow down and some (stupidly) will try to pass. Equally, it's not only cars - I used to be blinded on my bike by some prat with a stupid light. What worried me was a car behind me being blinded by him and running into me. Finally, dark, unlit roads, aren't where you need bright lights because people can see you miles off. The time you need the brightest lights are in daylight or where there is a lot of other lights that you are competing with. On dark roads, reflectives are also incredibly effective.
If you need bright lights to see where you are going (and I'm totally convinced that some people need brighter lights than others) then point them sensibly. Blinding everybody so that you can "be seen" is just mindless.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
After three training rides in the dark in RP in the last couple of weeks I am giving up - too many too bright lights. Thing is I kind of understand why they might want them in there at night - those deer don't do reflectives too well. Or maybe it's just me who struggles to see them. Either way, all outdoor training rides now to be completed in daylight.0
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There isn't a rear light on the market that is bright enough to dazzle a motorist into driving into the back of you. Front lights, yes, but see comments above regarding this.meanredspider wrote:First Aspect wrote:
I despair at people here advocating less bright rear lights. Get a life, or keep one. If you have to use unlit roads in winter, you would not have this opinion. It is however probably true that "disruptive" flashing patterns make it harder to judge speed of approach.
All that said, 3.2k Lumens is absurd, and at least three times as much as you need to ride at full speed on a road bike at night. It isn't safer to have blind motorists coming towards you - I mean, they aren't going to stop just because they can't see anything, are they?
The thing is, unlit roads in winter was exactly what I used to ride and I think there are plenty of people that ride with too bright unsafe lights.
A few points - some cars will slow down and some (stupidly) will try to pass. Equally, it's not only cars - I used to be blinded on my bike by some prat with a stupid light. What worried me was a car behind me being blinded by him and running into me. Finally, dark, unlit roads, aren't where you need bright lights because people can see you miles off. The time you need the brightest lights are in daylight or where there is a lot of other lights that you are competing with. On dark roads, reflectives are also incredibly effective.
If you need bright lights to see where you are going (and I'm totally convinced that some people need brighter lights than others) then point them sensibly. Blinding everybody so that you can "be seen" is just mindless.
A bright rear light enables your pool of light, or the effect on road signs, to be seen before you are. That's the point. Perhaps I should have said "twisty" unlit roads.
Earlier, you said 250 lumens was enough. Not for me it isn't. Beyond about 800-1000 though, all you are doing is increasing the contrast. Even that is only really necessary if you are going down hill.
I agree that there is coming a point where manufacturers will have to start thinking about lensing bike lights more effectively, and having an easier means of dimming them. However, I feel that some of us are being overly "cowed" by motorists' willingness to complain - when this simply would not be the case towards any other type of road user.
Even in town, I wouldn't advocate trying to "compete" with other light sources. There, you have enough scattered light for judiciously placed reflectives to be far more effective.0 -
Just to get this back to the case in point, the OP had a bright rear light (generally most people feel this is ok), flashing in a ridiculous and dangerous way (not ok). If the flashing of your rear light is too distracting you are putting yourself and others in danger and that is antisocial.
Constant light to see (at the front), bright but dipped. Flashing lights to be seen front and back less bright and flashing sensibly, not seizure inducing. It's not difficult.0 -
3000+ lumens 'king hell I get by on 300 on unlit roads.
Me on the road someone on a shared path on my side cycling with some souper strength front light on strobe thought I was going to have a fit.
I go for quantity on the back not strength two fibre flares on my ruck sack and moon on the seat post on number two constant. I stopped using flashing rears having been behind a few and noticed how dazzling they were in the dark and rain.0 -
I think those suggesting that some lights are too bright are more likely to be doing so because they find some lights too bright.First Aspect wrote:However, I feel that some of us are being overly "cowed" by motorists' willingness to complain - when this simply would not be the case towards any other type of road user.0 -
With regards to the 3.2K lm front light i have, that one was angled down a lot - some of the roads around here are terrible for pot holes/defects so i am not going to no use it.
Comparing it to my 500lm light, its not all that much brighter to be honest. but i still dont have it pointing in the faces of oncoming traffic.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
First Aspect wrote:A bright rear light enables your pool of light, or the effect on road signs, to be seen before you are. That's the point. Perhaps I should have said "twisty" unlit roads.
Rubbish!
If a following car is further back, so that they did not see your less bright light before you went around the bend then they are far enough back that when they come around the bend they will have enough braking distance to react.
If the following car is so close that reaction time after going round the bend is not enough then they would have seen your less bright light before you went round the corner anyway.
Having a glow so bright that it lights up the area behind you after going round a corner serves no practical purpose.
You only need a super bright rear light when using in daylight or well lit areas.
Note that I am not arguing for DIM lights, but I have some Moon lights and there is no way you would need to run them on anything other than the lowest flashing mode at night on dark roads.0
