How does this work? Damages

hantstooflat

Just read the following article...

http://road.cc/content/news/210799-para ... nning-high

My questions are where does the money come from? It can't come from the MTB instructor personally can it (his assets and earnings)? Will it be paid by his insurers? What if he had no insurance?

big_p

Lets hope he had public liability insurance, I feel for Leon, people can't just accept accidents happen any more, they're always looking to blame someone, If the guy wasn't sure of his ability, he should have got off and walked down the hill.

cooldad

If he didn't have insurance he's in deep financial poo. I assume he does, or at least is rich, or no one would be paying for a bunch of expensive lawyers.

fenix

If he's taking money to instruct people he should have insurance for it. Simple as.

rockmonkeysc

Should be insured.
This should have been thrown out of court. If you take part in a dangerous sport then you have to accept that you could get hurt.
I've crashed pretty hard during a coaching session but I was there to have my abilities stretched so a crash was a definite risk. I certainly wouldn't have sued the instructor if I had broken bones.
One of my friends is a mountain guide, nearly a third of his fees just go to pay insurance premiums.

JGTR

Tragic story all round. I used to teach kitesurfing (fully qualified and insured!) and some students you could push, some you couldn't but there was always the chance of something going wrong. I suppose if something did go wrong then I'd have to prove that conditions were suitable for the student's level of ability.

Although I can't help thinking that if the guy who got injured wasn't a lawyer whether this would have got to court.

ade555

Why would you sue someone for something like this??? You always have choice in life to say NO, I feel for the instructor, he went out to learn mtb skills, something happen and now is someone else fault for his injury, not been funny but If I ask you jump of cliff would you??? as for damage, injurys ect., business should have libility insurance the question is how high the cover is.

He was rider of...."12 Years"

"There was nothing unreasonable about permitting Mr Ahmed, a mountain biker of 12 years' experience, to have a run down the slope once, or more than once."

cooldad

ade555 wrote:

I have no idea what happened, but clearly that court with all the evidence and details of this case has no clue, and I should get to decide the fate of both parties because I have an enduro specific helmet!"

FTFY

The Rookie

ade555 wrote:

Why would you sue someone for something like this??? You always have choice in life to say NO, I feel for the instructor, he went out to learn mtb skills, something happen and now is someone else fault for his injury, not been funny but If I ask you jump of cliff would you??? as for damage, injurys ect., business should have libility insurance the question is how high the cover is.

He was rider of...."12 Years"

"There was nothing unreasonable about permitting Mr Ahmed, a mountain biker of 12 years' experience, to have a run down the slope once, or more than once."

Why would you sue? If you need it spelling out in words of one syllable - cash. Living in a wheelchair carries extra expense for a long time!

We have a court system for a reason, neither you nor I (nor probably the person who wrote the article) know the full facts, if there was a deficiency in the defence than only the defence have themselves to blame.

I would imagine the instructor was insured or put simply it wouldn't be worth suing in the first place, the insurer will have decided whether to pay up or pay for the defence.

rockmonkeysc

If you do a sport which is dangerous you should accept the possible consequences when it goes wrong.
He could have told the instructor he wasn't comfortable with what he was doing and they could have worked on some basic skills. The instructor probably assumed that a rider with 12 years experience had a reasonable level of competence.
If someone had to be blamed, why not the trail builder?
It's things like this which will kill this sport. I love the more technical trails with big, committing features but if trail builders and land owners get worried about liability then everything will get reduced to the level of green trails and you'll have to wear full motocross armour to ride them.
It should be entirely the responsibility of the rider to judge what's within their abilities or whether they will risk pushing it and a possible crash

cooldad

So if you went on a skydiving course, you'd be happy checking your 'chute was packed properly?

Instructor's shouldn't assume, they should make sure.

schmako

-10 faith in humanity points

The guy that crashed is surely responsible, I would hope there is some disclaimer of liability when you sign up for a skills course? Much the same as when you go riding at Fort Bill, you have to state you are capable of what you are intending to ride.

Taken from their participation statement: 'Mountain biking is a dangerous activity and I am prepared to ride at my own risk' (you have to agree before riding)

and

'Helmets & insurance - You must wear a helmet, but we strongly advise full-face helmet and body armour. Consider your insurance situation; are you insured for personal injury and 3rd party liability?'

But meh what do I know (not a lot..)

Still not great for the biking scene IMO.

Herdwick

Maybe they are in this together, and they just ripped off the insurance company...

If thats not the case then I think the guy who plummented should have had a second thought on what he's going to do, hes a grown up man, not a retarded needing a supervision,

If he got psushed while looking the other way, yes he has every wright to sue the bstrd

cooldad

I'm starting to understand Brexit and Trump.
Scary.

Herdwick

sue them, you may get a compensation for being scared

rockmonkeysc

cooldad wrote:

So if you went on a skydiving course, you'd be happy checking your 'chute was packed properly?

Instructor's shouldn't assume, they should make sure.

I have learnt to skydive. Reserve chutes are professionally inspected and packed. Main chutes are generally packed by at least two people together so less chance of a mistake. I had main failure (line caught over the canopy) and just opened the reserve, thats why you open at 5000 feet as a student.
The insurance situation is quite different, you buy your own insurance, the parachute school insures the aircraft and all the kit. You're very much responsible for your own safety once you exit the plane.
As it turned out, I wasn't very good at skydiving and it's not a good sport to be not very good at!

fenix

The instructor will have cover. Otherwise unless he's a millionaire MTB Teacher (unlikely) then the injured guy won't get his money.

We've not heard all of the information - the court did and awarded the compensation.

arthur_scrimshaw

The court wouldn't have found in his favour without a good reason, something wasn't done right on the day of the accident.

Herdwick

off course they will, it will look bad if a paralysed man gets nothing for being bad at mtbing while a coach was payed to teach him :?

arthur_scrimshaw

Herdwick wrote:

off course they will, it will look bad if a paralysed man gets nothing for being bad at mtbing while a coach was payed to teach him :?

I'm taking that as irony.

Herdwick

it's pretty much the same with pedestrians and vechicles, no matter how dump a pedestrian is when jumps in front of a car, even in the event of attemping suicide the court will rule in his favor

cooldad

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Herdwick wrote:

off course they will, it will look bad if a paralysed man gets nothing for being bad at mtbing while a coach was payed to teach him :?

I'm taking that as irony.

I hope so.

cooldad

Herdwick wrote:

it's pretty much the same with pedestrians and vechicles, no matter how dump a pedestrian is when jumps in front of a car, even in the event of attemping suicide the court will rule in his favor

That's because it's very rude for a ped to take a dump in front of a car.

Probably a bit dangerous as well.

Herdwick

Ahhhh yea you are right, dumb, will be more careful next time

Herdwick

Wright

Herdwick

Shite! Will use autocorrect next time

rockmonkeysc

I once saw a boy racered up Ford Orion with a steaming, huge, triumphant turd curled on the bonnet. I don't think it was there by the owners choice. I guess someone disliked him.

doomanic

Schmako wrote:

-10 faith in humanity points

The guy that crashed is surely responsible, I would hope there is some disclaimer of liability when you sign up for a skills course? Much the same as when you go riding at Fort Bill, you have to state you are capable of what you are intending to ride.

Taken from their participation statement: 'Mountain biking is a dangerous activity and I am prepared to ride at my own risk' (you have to agree before riding)

and

'Helmets & insurance - You must wear a helmet, but we strongly advise full-face helmet and body armour. Consider your insurance situation; are you insured for personal injury and 3rd party liability?'

But meh what do I know (not a lot..)

Still not great for the biking scene IMO.

I see stuff that a lot when scuba diving. If there's negligence proven those disclaimers aren't worth the paper they're written on. You can't be asked/required/forced to sign away your right to a duty of care from the responsible party.

cooldad

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

cooldad

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I once saw a boy racered up Ford Orion with a steaming, huge, triumphant turd curled on the bonnet. I don't think it was there by the owners choice. I guess someone disliked him.

The poo er probably mistook it for a portaloo. Reasonable mistake.

The Rookie

So the guy needing a dump sees a pile of poo and adds to it?

As noted you cannot sign away your statutory protections, all the disclaimers in the world are useless if the defendant is found to be negligent.

Its worth noting in this case they found the claimant had been contributory negligent to the tune of 20% so would have any award reduced by 20% on that basis.