So who recognises Britain as it is today?

Jez mon

PBlakeney wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I don't think Jezmon meant that in a bad way, I thought he meant it was obvious the top judges would have been to a good university.

This.

When I'm watching f1 I don't expect the Adrian Neweys of this world to have got a Desmond from Thames Valley Uni either.

Would you accept the University of Southampton though?

Don't be disgusting. Southampton?
My alma mater

And Adrian Newey.

It's a good university! Also I didn't say anything about acceptance? The hiring policies of Red Bull are their own business. The point is, someone who has risen to the top of their field is likely to have always done well.

pblakeney

Jez mon wrote:

It's a good university! Also I didn't say anything about acceptance? The hiring policies of Red Bull are their own business. The point is, someone who has risen to the top of their field is likely to have always done well.

I thought your point was about the top people going to the top universities. Never mind.
I think it is still possible for the cream to rise but it is easier with the right connections and ties.

finchy

Having been out for a long run today, I'd say that fly-tipping typifies this country. :evil: :evil: :evil:

sloppyschleckonds

finchy wrote:

Having been out for a long run today, I'd say that fly-tipping typifies this country. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I listened to a Radio 5 discussion on fly-tipping, I think they all agreed death by hanging would be a suitable deterrent.

diplodicus

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

finchy wrote:

Having been out for a long run today, I'd say that fly-tipping typifies this country. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I listened to a Radio 5 discussion on fly-tipping, I think they all agreed death by hanging would be a suitable deterrent.

Maybe not a deterrent, but the re-offending rate would be incredibly low

ugo.santalucia

Fly tipping is a problem because councils charge an absolute fortune to pick up that crap.

When I lived in London they wanted 40 quid per item, I can see how some people are tempted to dump them at the side of the road

On top of that, recycling centres charge vans and trade

cycleclinic

We may need to generate less waste. I keep telling my wife we dont need a new sofa every 5 years but she buys one anyway.

webboo

thecycleclinic wrote:

We may need to generate less waste. I keep telling my wife we dont need a new sofa every 5 years but she buys one anyway.

Apparently people change their sofas more often than they buy new towels

eric_draven

webboo

thecycleclinic wrote:

We are an inequal soceity. Still there are mice people and so long as you stay away from politics people well cyclists can be quite friendly. The britian on the late 40' was no rose garden. Racism was abound, women had no oppertunities once married. The past was not better and britian is still a decent place to live. We have lost the plot a bit of late but once we release our problems are all home grown maybe we can find the beginings of solutuons although we will have to stop talking lazy angry speak like blaming everything on the elites. Politicans still go on about encouraging manufacturing and creating an industrial policy but that wont help. What reamins of manufacturing is increasingly high end requiring highly skilled people. Roll royce for example make 61% of the income from selling services not hard goods. We still have the nicest cheese, ale , cider in the world and if you are feeling a bit down drink some ale, eat cheese and then go ride a bike.

Did you know 74% of chinese children in the u.k getting free school meals get 5 good gcses for white folk it is 33%. Chinese kids are not smarter at birth. Our culture is part of the problem one day we we all see it and stop blaming others.

Our cousins in the u.s are showing us how deep the barrel goes. They have not even scraped the bottom yet. We have barley got started. More cheese eating and ale drinking to come i think.

Some radical thinking is required. Come folk instead of dispairing get your thinking caps on.

i

As you did not pick up on my hint about the possible barley pun.
If you are going about poor standards, either get another spell checker or go back to school. :roll:

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

We may need to generate less waste. I keep telling my wife we dont need a new sofa every 5 years but she buys one anyway.

I still resist... but I fear a sofa coming this winter

Don't look at me, I even separate the plastic top of the olive oil bottles from the glass

mamba80

It was ever thus, it s no worse now than in years gone by, people dont really change, the human character is basically selfish and self serving, always has been always will be.

i recently witnessed a well educated and very wealthy individual, bullying his dying mother into changing her meagre Will to his benefit..... (i was installing a IP link into a scanner at a local Hospice, it was shocking) he failed thankfully but it goes to show that everything can still be added too.

...and on that cheery note, i m pouring another Rioja ....

Pross

I can't help thinking people are over-stating things a bit here. Sure, there's a lot of bad stuff such as a decline in discipline and manners but that is hardly unique to the UK. Yes, there is inequality and education or healthcare could be better but if you look back over history what periods would you say any of those things were any better? Possibly the late 50s through to the late 70s but in those times I would say -isms were far more rife.

ballysmate

mamba80 wrote:

It was ever thus, it s no worse now than in years gone by, people dont really change, the human character is basically selfish and self serving, always has been always will be.

i recently witnessed a well educated and very wealthy individual, bullying his dying mother into changing her meagre Will to his benefit..... (i was installing a IP link into a scanner at a local Hospice, it was shocking) he failed thankfully but it goes to show that everything can still be added too.

...and on that cheery note, i m pouring another Rioja ....

Bloody hell! I have something in common with Mamba!!

Cheers!

mamba80

Ballysmate wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

It was ever thus, it s no worse now than in years gone by, people dont really change, the human character is basically selfish and self serving, always has been always will be.

i recently witnessed a well educated and very wealthy individual, bullying his dying mother into changing her meagre Will to his benefit..... (i was installing a IP link into a scanner at a local Hospice, it was shocking) he failed thankfully but it goes to show that everything can still be added too.

...and on that cheery note, i m pouring another Rioja ....

Bloody hell! I have something in common with Mamba!!

Cheers!

Cheers, we are indeed brothers of the vine!

Stevo_666

Pross wrote:

I can't help thinking people are over-stating things a bit here.

^^^
This.

redjeepǃ

I've always been proud to be English, and despite having spent most my working life since my early 20's living abroad always figured that I'd move 'home' sometime.

It's only been during the past 2 years or so that I've become increasingly ashamed of what I see in the UK, and am currently seriously questioning whether or not I ever will go back.

DeVlaeminck

Where have you been living and what is it that makes you feel ashamed of the UK ?

ugo.santalucia

Pross wrote:

I can't help thinking people are over-stating things a bit here. Sure, there's a lot of bad stuff such as a decline in discipline and manners but that is hardly unique to the UK. Yes, there is inequality and education or healthcare could be better but if you look back over history what periods would you say any of those things were any better? Possibly the late 50s through to the late 70s but in those times I would say -isms were far more rife.

It's not a fair way of looking at things. Being the "fifth" richest nation on earth and by GDP pro capita probably one of the top three, one would expect outstanding health care, education and such... whereas what you see is vulgar display of wealth and deep pockets of poverty. Healtcare is a hit and a miss and education is patchy. Problems like obesity and diabetes are no longer a prerogative of the rich, in fact they put Britain in the same league as Mexico and other nations that we consider "developing".
If you compare Britain with Germany or Denmark or Holland you will see the infrastructure sucks, education is poorer and healthcare is worse... however there are more > million pound properties and more luxury cars... that is in essence the difference and why there is a problem

slowmart

If you look at the average intelligence of a person in the U.K. and then consider that half the population are below that level.

Add the press and politicians needlessly fanning the flames of division with little resemblance of their narrative grounded in facts.

Ok the UK has faced internal division and challenges before but the difference this time is we lack leadership from either of the main political parties.

haydenm

Two things from my point of view; people talk about standard of living and inequality as if they are interchangeable. People have been lamenting the end of civilisation for hundreds of years, nothing changes.

I say that from a comfortable position as someone who earns money and loves their job so clearly I'm not especially in touch, for people in my situation things are different down south but I don't feel especially sorry for my friends who can't afford anything with their constant bragging about living in *London. Generally everyone I meet is friendly and there is good community spirit here (not that we join in a whole lot). I do feel sorry for people in poverty but not being especially in touch makes it hard to comment on the correct level of spending

*a 2 hour commute from London

secretsam

The thing now is that all that bitterness and stupidity has been given legitimacy and an outlet. It was always, always there, and is present in most societies. This used to be tempered by a governmental structure that protected the vulnerable or downtrodden to some extent; now they are seen as being a burden, to be vilified and castigated. Turning on ourselves is now an acceptable pastime.

We suffer in this country (and I mean the UK, not just England) from a national arrogance brought on by too many years of trading on past glories and not being called out for it. That will now change: the likes of France, Germany and so forth will be sick of our constant xenophobic bleating down the years, so let's not expect any favours.

We have forgotten what made Britain great: innovation, social justice, a willingness to embrace our fellow man. The undercurrent of philanthropic positivism. We used to set the standard to acceptable behaviour and politeness. That is now eroded to the point of invisibility.

norvernrob

I don't see any differences, apart from the odd muppet on the news or social media saying there shouldn't be any muslims in the UK since the Brexit vote. Those types of brain doners were posting the same things beforehand anyway.

A couple of times a week I pick up my son from the school my wife teaches at. It's a mix of roughly 40% Slovak, 40% British and 20% other nationalities, mainly African with a few Chinese. I don't see any animosity between the groups of parents, and this is in a poor area where you'd probably expect racism and xenophobia to be much higher than average - or maybe this is the real world, and by and large people do actually get on together regardless of nationality/race.

slowmart

NorvernRob wrote:

I don't see any differences, apart from the odd muppet on the news or social media saying there shouldn't be any muslims in the UK since the Brexit vote. Those types of brain doners were posting the same things beforehand anyway.

A couple of times a week I pick up my son from the school my wife teaches at. It's a mix of roughly 40% Slovak, 40% British and 20% other nationalities, mainly African with a few Chinese. I don't see any animosity between the groups of parents, and this is in a poor area where you'd probably expect racism and xenophobia to be much higher than average - or maybe this is the real world, and by and large people do actually get on together regardless of nationality/race.

Nail on the head. Its the Daily Mail and overly right wing rhetoric from the press which shapes ill-informed opinions .

davis

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

We may need to generate less waste. I keep telling my wife we dont need a new sofa every 5 years but she buys one anyway.

I still resist... but I fear a sofa coming this winter

Don't look at me, I even separate the plastic top of the olive oil bottles from the glass

You can get Olive oil in plastic bottles.. I think it's only Filippo Berio though...

DeVlaeminck

SecretSam wrote:

We suffer in this country (and I mean the UK, not just England) from a national arrogance brought on by too many years of trading on past glories and not being called out for it. That will now change: the likes of France, Germany and so forth will be sick of our constant xenophobic bleating down the years, so let's not expect any favours.
.

To be fair I think the French and Germans can match us for both xenophobia and for national arrogance.

ballysmate

DeVlaeminck wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

We suffer in this country (and I mean the UK, not just England) from a national arrogance brought on by too many years of trading on past glories and not being called out for it. That will now change: the likes of France, Germany and so forth will be sick of our constant xenophobic bleating down the years, so let's not expect any favours.
.

To be fair I think the French and Germans can match us for both xenophobia and for national arrogance.

Perhaps Secret Sam was demonstrating that other British trait... irony.

redjeepǃ

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Where have you been living and what is it that makes you feel ashamed of the UK ?

The USA and a couple of European countries other than Britain.

Maybe it's just the British press which seems to be becoming more polarised, but it seems that xenophobia has risen since Brexit and I've read reports that a lot of non British nationals such as the Poles have been having more problems with discrimination. Looking in from the outside I can't understand why anybody would vote for Brexit. It completely baffles me.

It may not be reality, I'm not really in a position to say. It just saddened me.

Pross

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Pross wrote:

I can't help thinking people are over-stating things a bit here. Sure, there's a lot of bad stuff such as a decline in discipline and manners but that is hardly unique to the UK. Yes, there is inequality and education or healthcare could be better but if you look back over history what periods would you say any of those things were any better? Possibly the late 50s through to the late 70s but in those times I would say -isms were far more rife.

It's not a fair way of looking at things. Being the "fifth" richest nation on earth and by GDP pro capita probably one of the top three, one would expect outstanding health care, education and such... whereas what you see is vulgar display of wealth and deep pockets of poverty. Healtcare is a hit and a miss and education is patchy. Problems like obesity and diabetes are no longer a prerogative of the rich, in fact they put Britain in the same league as Mexico and other nations that we consider "developing".
If you compare Britain with Germany or Denmark or Holland you will see the infrastructure sucks, education is poorer and healthcare is worse... however there are more > million pound properties and more luxury cars... that is in essence the difference and why there is a problem

We were the richest nation on earth 200 years ago and yet vast swathes of the population had no education, no basic healthcare and poverty meant starving to death or being put in the poorhouse.

Now, you hear people moaning they are so skint they can't go on a family holiday or afford to run a car. No one repairs worn clothing and few cook food from scratch using basic ingredients. People want things handed to them and complain when they aren't. I'm certainly not saying things are perfect and there are certainly people who have far more than they need but are only interested in getting even more but I still think in terms of equality and social mobility we have probably never had a period like the present.

However, there are definitely issues but I can't put my finger on the causes. I guess it is a combination of some who will do anything to progress their own ambition at the cost of others together with those who are too lazy to fight for opportunities. Add to that the sheer volume of media available that allows us to see these people and it looks worse than it probably is.

finchy

Pross wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Pross wrote:

I can't help thinking people are over-stating things a bit here. Sure, there's a lot of bad stuff such as a decline in discipline and manners but that is hardly unique to the UK. Yes, there is inequality and education or healthcare could be better but if you look back over history what periods would you say any of those things were any better? Possibly the late 50s through to the late 70s but in those times I would say -isms were far more rife.

It's not a fair way of looking at things. Being the "fifth" richest nation on earth and by GDP pro capita probably one of the top three, one would expect outstanding health care, education and such... whereas what you see is vulgar display of wealth and deep pockets of poverty. Healtcare is a hit and a miss and education is patchy. Problems like obesity and diabetes are no longer a prerogative of the rich, in fact they put Britain in the same league as Mexico and other nations that we consider "developing".
If you compare Britain with Germany or Denmark or Holland you will see the infrastructure sucks, education is poorer and healthcare is worse... however there are more > million pound properties and more luxury cars... that is in essence the difference and why there is a problem

We were the richest nation on earth 200 years ago and yet vast swathes of the population had no education, no basic healthcare and poverty meant starving to death or being put in the poorhouse.

Now, you hear people moaning they are so skint they can't go on a family holiday or afford to run a car. No one repairs worn clothing and few cook food from scratch using basic ingredients. People want things handed to them and complain when they aren't. I'm certainly not saying things are perfect and there are certainly people who have far more than they need but are only interested in getting even more but I still think in terms of equality and social mobility we have probably never had a period like the present.

However, there are definitely issues but I can't put my finger on the causes. I guess it is a combination of some who will do anything to progress their own ambition at the cost of others together with those who are too lazy to fight for opportunities. Add to that the sheer volume of media available that allows us to see these people and it looks worse than it probably is.

We shouldn't be comparing the UK today to the UK 200 years ago, we need to compare the UK today with other highly developed countries. Nobody should be denied a decent education (and many are in this country) and nobody should be denied decent healthcare.

Apart from that, people will judge a country based on their own frame of reference. Someone growing up in the 1940s would probably be thrilled to live in 21st century Britain, especially if they were working class, but as soon as things start to slide, people become dissatisfied. To take a bit of an extreme example, if Britain ended up with living conditions similar to, say, Romania, it would still be better than Britain 200 years ago, it would still be better than most of Africa today, but people would be miserable because they're used to better. And that's where the problem lies - rents and house prices are absolutely insane in this country (especially given the generally poor quality of housing), and young people are being told that they need to go to university and pile up massive debts by the age of 21 to get jobs that years ago would have required A-levels and an apprenticeship, and real wages have been stagnating/falling for quite a time. So in many ways, life for people of a certain age is going to be worse than they are accustomed to. In some ways it's better as well, certainly less polluted and the country is getting safer, but people are facing a whole load of completely unnecessary problems which could destroy any sense of social cohesion.

Personally, I'd love the chance to emigrate to the continent, but family reasons prevent me from doing so. I never used to feel like that, I always felt that the country would come good eventually, I even felt like 2008 might be the spark for a national renewal, but to be honest, I've lost that hope now.