Riding on days off

Elfed

OK, this will probably sound ridiculous but I struggle to ride and produce the same power output if I'm on a day off or weekends.
Been riding for four years and maybe do 3500 miles a year.

When it's light enough I can go for a two to three hour ride after work in the evenings fueled only by what I had at the works canteen at 12:30 and two onboard drinks bottles filled with High5 2:1.No problems with endurance with average power around 155 to 165 for the ride(power meter not Strava guesstimation). No stops required only at junctions and traffic lights etc.

On weekends or a day off it's totally different, way down on power, around 10 to 15 watts average and really struggling for energy.
Now I've tried eating enough before and that didn't work and also kept it light before a ride and that didn't work.
Today had a bowl of porridge around 7:45 and two pieces of toast with Nutella around 11:00 before setting off around 12:30. Usual stuff, crap ride and thoroughly demoralised.

Now I know it's something to do with fuelling, either too much and I'm struggling because I'm still digesting it, or lack of and I'm running out of energy.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as it's stopping me from joining a club as I just don't know which me will be riding.

webboo

What do you do the night or day before your days off. Also most club rides are hardly the place where lacking in a bit of umph is going to be noticed. Also it could be possible you are more of an evening person than a morning one.
Have you tried going out at the time of your after work rides on your day off.

Elfed

Webboo wrote:

What do you do the night or day before your days off. Also most club rides are hardly the place where lacking in a bit of umph is going to be noticed. Also it could be possible you are more of an evening person than a morning one.
Have you tried going out at the time of your after work rides on your day off.

Hi, thanks for replying, if I go in the evening on a day off, no problems, infact, if I leave it till late afternoon I'm fine.

I know, it's an odd problem

Elfed

Webboo wrote:

What do you do the night or day before your days off. Also most club rides are hardly the place where lacking in a bit of umph is going to be noticed. Also it could be possible you are more of an evening person than a morning one.
Have you tried going out at the time of your after work rides on your day off.

Nights or days before days off are no different.

webboo

Elfed wrote:

Webboo wrote:

What do you do the night or day before your days off. Also most club rides are hardly the place where lacking in a bit of umph is going to be noticed. Also it could be possible you are more of an evening person than a morning one.
Have you tried going out at the time of your after work rides on your day off.

Hi, thanks for replying, if I go in the evening on a day off, no problems, infact, if I leave it till late afternoon I'm fine.

I know, it's an odd problem

It's not odd at all if your body gets used to training on an evening, then that's when your performance will be at its best. Just keep at it and eventually it will even out.
In regard to what you do on the evenings before your day off, do you have a glass of wine, a gallon of ale or something you don't do on a work night.

Elfed

Webboo wrote:

Elfed wrote:

Webboo wrote:

What do you do the night or day before your days off. Also most club rides are hardly the place where lacking in a bit of umph is going to be noticed. Also it could be possible you are more of an evening person than a morning one.
Have you tried going out at the time of your after work rides on your day off.

Hi, thanks for replying, if I go in the evening on a day off, no problems, infact, if I leave it till late afternoon I'm fine.

I know, it's an odd problem

It's not odd at all if your body gets used to training on an evening, then that's when your performance will be at its best. Just keep at it and eventually it will even out.
In regard to what you do on the evenings before your day off, do you have a glass of wine, a gallon of ale or something you don't do on a work night.

Strangely enough, a good few lagers on a Saturday night doesn't really have the same effect, I'm usually OK as long as I leave it till the afternoon.

The problem I've got is that clubs usually go in the morning, and if I'm going to have a howler then I can't really go, just gets me really down.

jgsi

To say you are in a complete rut and plateauing from what you describe is an understatement.
I think you need to prioritise what you want out of cycling and lay the foundations for some proper progression.
If you want to go the competitive route , get some professional coaching advice.
If it''s just to keep up with your peers on a club ride... then do exactly that.. ride with a club and get used to the pacing involved.
Dont get sidetracked by excuses about 'feeding' and what have you.
It's down to basic base fitness/stamina and I'd say lack of a proper goal.

webboo

It's only a club run not the Milan San Remo. They usually go at the pace of the slowest and I suspect that won't be you.

bobmcstuff

Elfed wrote:

Webboo wrote:

Elfed wrote:

Webboo wrote:

What do you do the night or day before your days off. Also most club rides are hardly the place where lacking in a bit of umph is going to be noticed. Also it could be possible you are more of an evening person than a morning one.
Have you tried going out at the time of your after work rides on your day off.

Hi, thanks for replying, if I go in the evening on a day off, no problems, infact, if I leave it till late afternoon I'm fine.

I know, it's an odd problem

It's not odd at all if your body gets used to training on an evening, then that's when your performance will be at its best. Just keep at it and eventually it will even out.
In regard to what you do on the evenings before your day off, do you have a glass of wine, a gallon of ale or something you don't do on a work night.

Strangely enough, a good few lagers on a Saturday night doesn't really have the same effect, I'm usually OK as long as I leave it till the afternoon.

The problem I've got is that clubs usually go in the morning, and if I'm going to have a howler then I can't really go, just gets me really down.

I am the same - much faster in the evenings. I really struggle to get anything out first thing, it takes me a few hours of riding to get into it. Echo the comments above, just start going out with the club. They usually have more than one ability group and based on the above you'll no way be slowest in most club's slow group.

Also the same with the beers - I set a load of climbing PBs on a Saturday club run after 6 pints on a Friday a few weeks back. Nearly stayed in bed too! I assume I must be some sort of beer Popeye...

Planning to do some evening 10s next year so it bodes well for that! (The being faster in the evenings that is, not the beer).

Elfed

JGSI wrote:

To say you are in a complete rut and plateauing from what you describe is an understatement.
I think you need to prioritise what you want out of cycling and lay the foundations for some proper progression.
If you want to go the competitive route , get some professional coaching advice.
If it''s just to keep up with your peers on a club ride... then do exactly that.. ride with a club and get used to the pacing involved.
Dont get sidetracked by excuses about 'feeding' and what have you.
It's down to basic base fitness/stamina and I'd say lack of a proper goal.

Interesting thoughts, and probably very true. I'm not looking to go into racing, just not the right build being 6'6" and 100kg(not fat either). My fitness isn't terrible, but could be so much better. I can do 40 to 50 miles at a 16.5 to 17 mph average on a solo ride, depending on the day. Today's crap ride was only 30 miles at a 16.2 average and 148 average watts, had to cut it short as it just wasn't happening.

Your thoughts on being in a rut and needing goals sounds good, I shall have to give that some serious thought, thank you.

Elfed

Webboo wrote:

It's only a club run not the Milan San Remo. They usually go at the pace of the slowest and I suspect that won't be you.

Haha, that made me laugh, look out for me in MSR 2017!

giropaul

The body's biorhythms are very influential, especially in some people.

When van Impe won the Tour there was a difference between French and Belgian time. He lived for at least a month before the Tour in French time, he thought it was so imprrtant.

Some successful time trial riders, who often race early in the morning, are known to alter their bed and waking times to reflect this.

cougie

10w loss isn't much.

It does sound like you're trying too hard all of the time. That's not the way to train. You're probably just wrecked by the weekend.

And club riding is so different to riding alone. Sitting on a wheel saves like 30% so that's way more than your power variances.

Riding with a club will teach you how to train and give you an incentive too.

stueys

Try setting off in the mornings with just a strong coffee and then eat on the bike once you've got going. Maybe you're just a slow starter in the mornings and fueling pre ride isn't helping you get going. If you start eating within the first hour you'll be fine fuel wise.

Would echo the coach advice.

bobmcstuff

Also what Stueys says /\

I used to worry about fuelling for morning rides and try to eat a big breakfast. But I found this really kills my performance, so now I just have a smaller breakfast and start eating earlier in the ride (if the ride is at say 8 on a Sunday I'm not about to get up at 6 to make sure I've had 60 or 90 minutes to digest).

Elfed

Stueys wrote:

Try setting off in the mornings with just a strong coffee and then eat on the bike once you've got going. Maybe you're just a slow starter in the mornings and fueling pre ride isn't helping you get going. If you start eating within the first hour you'll be fine fuel wise.

Would echo the coach advice.

That's something I've suspected but have always been afraid to set off without food for fear of not being able to do anything.

Next weekend I'll try that and just have a coffee before setting off.

Has anyone experience of this where they don't eat pre morning ride?

diamonddog

I usually ride 30/40/50 miles 4 to 6 hours after eating breakfast (toast more often than not) and take a bottle of High 5 on board the bike with a 4 pack of Belvita in the back pocket just in case.
I used to have problems with early rides but started to go out early and now it does not matter what time I ride, average speeds etc are more or less the same dependant on traffic and other hold ups.

bobmcstuff

Elfed wrote:

Has anyone experience of this where they don't eat pre morning ride?

Yes, I tend to feel terrible and get dropped in minutes! Or if it's a turbo session I am often unable to hit my targets.

I find that so long as I have eaten well the night before I just need something small first thing to get me going. I tend to have a small bowl of porridge (with a bit of sugar - maybe 300cal total) and a coffee before morning rides. Small enough it doesn't interfere but enough to get the engine started. Then I start eating fairly early on.

I think it's a case of figuring out what works for you, just take a gel or something sugary (or cash to buy some!) in the back pocket in case you bonk...

sloppyschleckonds

It could be that you are just not as fit as you think, or your body has got use to low intensity rides all the time.

if you have a PM there are plenty of tools available to work out fitness/ fatigue

Elfed

bobmcstuff wrote:

Elfed wrote:

Has anyone experience of this where they don't eat pre morning ride?

Yes, I tend to feel terrible and get dropped in minutes! Or if it's a turbo session I am often unable to hit my targets.

I find that so long as I have eaten well the night before I just need something small first thing to get me going. I tend to have a small bowl of porridge (with a bit of sugar - maybe 300cal total) and a coffee before morning rides. Small enough it doesn't interfere but enough to get the engine started. Then I start eating fairly early on.


I think it's a case of figuring out what works for you, just take a gel or something sugary (or cash to buy some!) in the back pocket in case you bonk...

I think I must have a very slow metabolism so next weekend's ride will be done on coffee alone beforehand, worth a try.
Once I figure out the problem I can then try and ride further afield without worrying about this problem.

cycleclinic

No matter how much you ride you cannot ride at yhe same pace every day. Last sunday i diid over a hundred miles on my mtb riding to and from a 3hr race. Monday, tuesday and wednesday my rides where slow at 13mph. Thurdsay i did 2hrs in the morning at arojnd 17 mph or 192w. Today easy riding (all of this commuting on the commutor with panniers).

Last year i went out targeting a pace or power output every time. I enjoyed riding less because of it. Vary your pace let your body recover. For me i have to eat. I have negleted my fat burning training this year and this means i need to eat more regularly now when out for a longer ride. Up to two to three hours i am fine.

To maximise the energy you get from burning fats try riding in the morning before breakfast for an hour or two. Your body will be forced to burn fats. Also do 4 hr rides on sunday with no food.

Sundays ride will 4hrs i will eat breakfast maybe scrambled eggs (eggs always fuel me well) and the ride with nothing but water.

3500 miles is not a great deal and wont be enough to build fatigue resistance into your muscles. Also doing thecsame thing day in day out means you plateau. By doing fast rides and a bunch of slow ones means youf body never gets plateau if you block periodise your training.

The besg thing you can do is remember nog to target a power average or a speed. Enjoy the ride even if it is a slow one.