GP4Seasons make riding harder than GP4000's ?

Secteur

All things being equal (fitness, health, training load, nutrition, bike) I have noticed that having changed my tyres from summer GP4000's to my winter GP4Seasons, today's ride was much harder++.

My average HR was 10bpm higher according to Garmin, and I felt this myself. Average speed 1.5mph lower than my average which barely ever varies. The ride felt really hard, even allowing for the rain and moderate wind. I ride a lot, so I feel I have a good sense of what is typical and what isn't in terms of my perceived effort etc.

So, assuming this isn't a blip in my health / recovery etc etc, could this tyre change alone really make such a difference?

I used GP4000's all last winter but as they were due for a change today due to wear, I thought I'd stick on the winter 4seasons which I had a brand new set of in the garage.

Clearly, the answer is do some more rides and then switch back and see, but just wondered if this would be expected?

Thanks.

imposter2.0

So today's weather conditions gave you 10bpm higher and 1.5mph lower average - and you're blaming tyre choice??

charlie_potatoes

Secteur

No, as I said I am very familiar with my routes and sensations, and have done so many rides that I know the effect weather has - today's weather wasn't really up to much; a bit of wind and rain but nothing remarkable. So knowing my body and abilities as intimately as I do, today's perceived effort and garmin stats were not normal even allowing for the mild weather conditions. I ride in similar weather all the time and it doesn't affect my speed / effort like today.

So, returning to my original question, could a tyre change alone between the relatively slick 4000's and the more grippy 4Seasons make such a difference? Is there any evidence / data on this?

It seems unlikely to me, but as I tried to explain, there was nothing else unusual about today's ride, and my stats very rarely vary by more than a tiny %; today's HR etc was noticeably affected and I can't think why else as I am in a good building cycle presently, feeling good, well nourished, well rested etc.

imposter2.0

As you suggested yourself earlier, N=1 means nothing in isolation. Although I'm struggling to see how your choice of tyre would make such a significant difference in reality. Wind was strong S/SE today, which is not normal and it killed the typical average on one of my regular routes.

Secteur

Ok, well there are so many variables I guess, but just wondered if it was a recognised and known thing that they are noticeably slower tyres. It seems not. I'll not change anything and see how my mid week ride goes. Cheers!

AK_jnr

Unbelievable.

Monty Dog

Puncture resistance requires a thicker, less flexible tyre carcass which consumes energy as it rolls - I found GP4S surprisingly sluggish. Extra effort also required if riding in colder, denser air as well plus wearing extra clothing - it all adds up.

grenw

Never noticed when I switched over last year. Too many other things thrown into the mix to spot just one

andi1363

Looks like you are right to believe you subjective expirience:

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... eason-2015

Secteur

andi1363 wrote:

Looks like you are right to believe you subjective expirience:

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... eason-2015

That's *exactly* the sort of data I was wondering about! Fantastic, thanks. So a 6 watt difference at my psi. I don't have a power meter so I don't know how to translate that into feeling (I.e. Would 6 watts account for my subjective feelings on the bike today of it being harder, and the objective evidence of the inc HR and reduced average speed, or is 6 watts to small to notice?), but it's interesting to know there's definitely a marked difference.

That'll show the sarcastic posters above ;-p

Anyway I'll do a couple more rides and decide whether to switch back to the GP4000's.

stueys

I ride 4K in the summer and 4seasons in the winter. The 4s is a tad heavier and won't give as nice a ride as the sidewalls are also tougher. But you honestly won't notice that difference unless you're a lot more sensitive than I am.

imposter2.0

Secteur wrote:

That's *exactly* the sort of data I was wondering about! Fantastic, thanks. So a 6 watt difference at my psi. I don't have a power meter so I don't know how to translate that into feeling (I.e. Would 6 watts account for my subjective feelings on the bike today of it being harder, and the objective evidence of the inc HR and reduced average speed, or is 6 watts to small to notice?), but it's interesting to know there's definitely a marked difference.

That'll show the sarcastic posters above ;-p

Anyway I'll do a couple more rides and decide whether to switch back to the GP4000's.

6 watts is not going to change the world either way. Certainly not in the way that you claim to have noticed.

AK_jnr

6 watts is the fluctuation your PM can have day to day. Or a tickle on the pedal. Basically f*** all.

bobmcstuff

I also just made the change and noticed no difference - still managed a few PRs on the club run.

Main thing was confidence as there has been a tear in the sidewall of my gp4000s for some time and the bulge was quite worrying...

Worth it in the winter for the puncture protection. GP4S feel a lot nicer than some of the other similar tyres I've used.

phreak

Depending on how fit you are, a 6 watt change is likely to be a few percent of your normal, especially over a longer ride. If you average 200 watts over a ride, it's 3%, so not 'that' insignificant. There are lots of other factors that tend to slow you down over winter though, so unless you can measure power output and have an absolute rather than relative measure, I wouldn't worry too much.

Alex99

AK_jnr wrote:

6 watts is the fluctuation your PM can have day to day. Or a tickle on the pedal. Basically f*** all.

That test is for one wheel though. Still, maybe 10 W total. Agree, no way 1.5 MPH differernce. Other factors maybe at play. FWIW, I didn't go fast and it felt really hard yesterday. I blame wearing overshoes.

cougie

Tyres will make a difference but I think you'd find more difference down to extra layers for the season and air is denser when it's colder.

I'm happy to have thicker tyres in winter when a p**cture would not be welcome.

As has been said though you need to have a few more rides.

pianoman

I've been trying to shift some unused Mavic 23mm tyres for a while (came with a set of wheels last summer) which are nothing like as resistant to puncture or as practical for actually getting into the right mind over matter set for hard work over winter, but I'll happily swap them for your GP4's. They're only about 200 grams each so say bye bye to your club mates on the café sprint (and hope they don't spill your decaf cappuccino) :twisted:

Damn we live in a narcisstic world nowadays...........

Secteur

Thanks chaps!

mugensi

bobmcstuff wrote:

I also just made the change and noticed no difference - still managed a few PRs on the club run.

Main thing was confidence as there has been a tear in the sidewall of my gp4000s for some time and the bulge was quite worrying...

Stick a puncture repair patch on the inside and cover it will gorilla tape. I've done approx. 800kms on a GP4000 tyre with a 1cm tear in the side wall which I repaired. No bulge and no problems with it (on the rear)

smoggysteve

phreak wrote:

Depending on how fit you are, a 6 watt change is likely to be a few percent of your normal, especially over a longer ride. If you average 200 watts over a ride, it's 3%, so not 'that' insignificant. There are lots of other factors that tend to slow you down over winter though, so unless you can measure power output and have an absolute rather than relative measure, I wouldn't worry too much.

^^

Power meter is only sure way to cut through all the variables. I have put out a higher average power on some of my slowest rides. Tyre pressure or type is only one of the things that effect your average speed.

okgo

I wonder if they have changed something on the 4 seasons of late, I just stuck a new set on, having had a an old one, and an s works turbo non cotton on the back, and I must say, I've checked the brakes are not rubbing/hubs not dragging as its felt so sluggish.

I have moved to cheap butyl tubes from latex also, so I should think actually the difference is fairly large given the front wheel probably is less important that the rear for crr and the S-Works is a pretty low crr tyre.

slowbike

MugenSi wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I also just made the change and noticed no difference - still managed a few PRs on the club run.

Main thing was confidence as there has been a tear in the sidewall of my gp4000s for some time and the bulge was quite worrying...

Stick a puncture repair patch on the inside and cover it will gorilla tape. I've done approx. 800kms on a GP4000 tyre with a 1cm tear in the side wall which I repaired. No bulge and no problems with it (on the rear)

Did similar - but ensured the tyre was on the rear - don't want that going pear shaped on the front whilst descending at 40mph+

Anonymous

Yes, they make riding harder. Just don't try to measure it, and don't ask such questions on here

On here, bicycles are immune from the laws of physics, and Continental make different tyres for the hell of it :roll:

That Raleigh Chopper with the Grifter rear tyre and MTB pedals (or evan flats) will be just as fast.

What tyre widths/pressures?
I only ask because wider tyres are (despite what I said earlier, and as odd as it may sound) accepted as being much faster on here.

Are the GP4000'S 25mm, and the 4 Seasons 23mm?

Anonymous

Just had a thought about tyre width.

Wife seems faster on her decently light aluminum bike with 23mm tyres, than her stupidly light SuperSix Hi-Mod with the annoyingly trendy 25mm tyres on.

I rest my case!

Jerry185

6 watts it might be, but put another way, its 50% harder on the 4 seasons.

I had the rolling tyre review all set, but Andi had it first

fat daddy

Carbonator wrote:

Just had a thought about tyre width.

Wife seems faster on her decently light aluminum bike with 23mm tyres, than her stupidly light SuperSix Hi-Mod with the annoyingly trendy 25mm tyres on.

I rest my case!

not so fast !!!!

Strava provides concrete scientific proof that I am faster on my 12kg Boardman Team Hybrid with 32mm tires, than I am on my 7kg Sworks Roubaix with 25mm tires.

so either Light bikes or Slower .... OR 25mm tires are slower than 23mm or 32mm

apreading

I always ride with GP4000S on front and GP4S on rear and the front wheel turns noticeably faster than the rear when I am moving along - is that down to the tyres or is there something wrong with my wheels? :roll:

Secteur

Have always run 25mm, since I started cycling in 2010 when my first bike (Specialized Secteur) had them fitted as standard.

So the only change was the tyre type, not size.

2 x 6W = 12W increased effort, according to the stats.

Who knows?!

But I still maintain I know my body, effort, local roads and conditions so intimately from so many rides that I really dont think the weather or fatigue was a major factor.

Can't get out today, but will ride them again tomorrow and then we might have a better idea.

apreading

I think 25mm GP4S are actually smaller than 25mm GP4000S though - I find the 28mm GP4S are about the same as 25mm GP4000S, and leaving aside the joke above, I really do run GP4000S front and GP4S rear - in 25/28mm versions and they are about the same size.