Should we swap May for Sturgeon

joe2008

Should we swap Sturgeon for a gorilla.

Someone at the BBC seems to think so.

socrates

Quite simple really. Sturgeon wants Scotland to stay in the EU because the majority of people in Scotland voted to stay. However she wants Scotland to leave the UK even thought the majority voted to stay in it. Democracy when it suits her.

kingstongraham

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

we did nt leave, so didnt have an emg budget..... but we ll have one eventually, even if it is by stealth.

That's called a budget. The point of the emergency budget claim was that it was an unavoidable consequence of voting to leave that it would happen "within weeks" to cut spending and increase taxes. It's now so obviously not happened I can't believe anyone is trying to defend it as not a lie.

This sounds almost exactly like the wriggling of the leave side about the lie about increased NHS spending being just one possibility that the government might not decide to take. That wasn't the way it was presented, and the same goes for the scary emergency budget.

The emergency budget was on the basis that we invoked A50 on the 24th June and the he (george osborne) would stick to his stated goal which was to eradicate the budget deficit by 2020. So you would do better claiming the immediate calling of A50 as a lie but I doubt that swung a single vote.

You seem to be the only person left in Britain who has not accepted that the £350m to th eNHs was a lie (or a "mistake" in the words of Farage). Th ebus may have been ambiguous but the Telegraph link below has Boris in front of a slogan explicity saying give thE £350m to the NHS

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... a-mistake/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 05546.html

I accepted that was bollox a long time before the referendum. That's why I described it above as a lie.

You are still wriggling about something that George Osborne promised was going to happen, and I don't understand why.

surrey_commuter

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

we did nt leave, so didnt have an emg budget..... but we ll have one eventually, even if it is by stealth.

That's called a budget. The point of the emergency budget claim was that it was an unavoidable consequence of voting to leave that it would happen "within weeks" to cut spending and increase taxes. It's now so obviously not happened I can't believe anyone is trying to defend it as not a lie.

This sounds almost exactly like the wriggling of the leave side about the lie about increased NHS spending being just one possibility that the government might not decide to take. That wasn't the way it was presented, and the same goes for the scary emergency budget.

The emergency budget was on the basis that we invoked A50 on the 24th June and the he (george osborne) would stick to his stated goal which was to eradicate the budget deficit by 2020. So you would do better claiming the immediate calling of A50 as a lie but I doubt that swung a single vote.

You seem to be the only person left in Britain who has not accepted that the £350m to th eNHs was a lie (or a "mistake" in the words of Farage). Th ebus may have been ambiguous but the Telegraph link below has Boris in front of a slogan explicity saying give thE £350m to the NHS

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... a-mistake/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 05546.html

I accepted that was bollox a long time before the referendum. That's why I described it above as a lie.

You are still wriggling about something that George Osborne promised was going to happen, and I don't understand why.

because we have not left. You are looking in the wrong place. The lie (with hindsight) was that A50 would be triggered on the 24th.

kingstongraham

Surrey Commuter wrote:

because we have not left. You are looking in the wrong place. The lie (with hindsight) was that A50 would be triggered on the 24th.

It's a useful way of spotting blinkers, if nothing else.

joelsim

KingstonGraham wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

we did nt leave, so didnt have an emg budget..... but we ll have one eventually, even if it is by stealth.

That's called a budget. The point of the emergency budget claim was that it was an unavoidable consequence of voting to leave that it would happen "within weeks" to cut spending and increase taxes. It's now so obviously not happened I can't believe anyone is trying to defend it as not a lie.

This sounds almost exactly like the wriggling of the leave side about the lie about increased NHS spending being just one possibility that the government might not decide to take. That wasn't the way it was presented, and the same goes for the scary emergency budget.

Duh

joelsim

The emergency budget was simply a way of saying we'll be £x bn worse off and where's the money going to come from.

That's still very valid, the fact Osborne and Cameron are no longer there doesn't mean the effects won't happen.

If you're too stupid to see that then I suggest you start reading The Economist, The Times or The FT who'll soon put you right.

kingstongraham

Joelsim wrote:

The emergency budget was simply a way of saying we'll be £x bn worse off and where's the money going to come from.

That's still very valid, the fact Osborne and Cameron are no longer there doesn't mean the effects won't happen.

If you're too stupid to see that then I suggest you start reading The Economist, The Times or The FT who'll soon put you right.

I understand that. But thanks for your advice.

slowmart

KingstonGraham wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

we did nt leave, so didnt have an emg budget..... but we ll have one eventually, even if it is by stealth.

That's called a budget. The point of the emergency budget claim was that it was an unavoidable consequence of voting to leave that it would happen "within weeks" to cut spending and increase taxes. It's now so obviously not happened I can't believe anyone is trying to defend it as not a lie.

This sounds almost exactly like the wriggling of the leave side about the lie about increased NHS spending being just one possibility that the government might not decide to take. That wasn't the way it was presented, and the same goes for the scary emergency budget.

There's no way May could politically follow through on this. A majority of 12 in the house and a significant move away from the prudence of the previous tenants of 10 & 11 Downing Street is redefining May's Premiership.

The question is more " What should the government do to reduce the noise and volatility in the markets"

The response to the latter question is indeed scary as the volatility is driven by the city's view that the government hasn't the will or the capability to get a grip on the situation. Its not even managing the situation currently so think about that for a while. HMG's capability is being questioned in this context what hapens if you apply to the perception of states who have an interest in weakening our position and influence abroad, we are heading for more troubled waters

kingstongraham

Anyway, back to the question... I think swapping someone who is committed to withdrawing from a union with no idea about what the situation will be afterwards for someone who wants to withdraw from a union with no idea what the situation will be afterwards would be a bit of a waste of time.

slowmart

Except NS wants to remain within the EU.

veronese68

I take your point but it's just that NS values one union more than the other. TM doesn't see it that way I'm guessing. Has she expressed a preference on Scottish independence?

kingstongraham

Slowmart wrote:

Except NS wants to remain within the EU.

Or join the EU.

bobmcstuff

NorvernRob wrote:

The Sturgeon that is still obsessed with Scottish independence, despite most of Scotland not actually wanting it and the fact it would be a bad move for the country? And half you lot are moaning that 52% of the UK wasn't enough for Brexit.

Britain has a better chance of success after Brexit than Scotland does if it becomes independent.

The point is that the fundamental basis of the Union (i.e., the reason Scotland voted No to independence last time) has changed, at that time everyone still thought we were odds-on to remain in the EU. Given that 62% of Scots voted to stay in the EU, it seems entirely reasonable that many Scots who voted No last time may be reconsidering their opinions.

Whether they would actually win a new vote remains to be seen.

Whether it would be a bad move for the country is debatable, although I agree that it probably would be (but then I voted to stay in the UK in 2014 so I would think so). Generally speaking Scotland is much more left-leaning than England is at the moment, and this is one very important reason many Scots want to be independent. As per the EU referendum, "head vs heart" issues are very important. It was pretty universally agreed that Brexit would be economically bad for Britain, at least in the short term, yet people voted for it anyway.

cycleclinic

I would rather have sturgeon as PM as at least she knows what she want. May doesn't well she may but she is walking a tightrope with no safety net.

What I know is I just paid for more yesterday in USD. Earlier this year I got 1.48 USD for £1. yesterday I got £1.211 USD for £1. Now I dont care if the brexit lot are right or not that the u.k will be fine in five years time. Now is quite important and quite frankly now hurts. Everyone is absorbing some of the price increases and not passing it on. That hurts and all for what exactly. I am not sure. yes currancy fluctuate but normally it due to forces out of our control. This one was self inflicted we did not have to collectively do it but we did and that hurts more.

tangled_metal

AFAIK if Scotland left the union it wouldn't be any better than the UK since UK will have left EU before Scotland would have left.the UK so they'd have to rejoin anyway. If.they could get in that is. Scotland has a deficit about 9.5% of GDP I think I heard earlier today (or something like that). To.join the EU this measure should be 3% or less. I'm sure the EU.would just ignore their own rules anyway.

Sturgeon is pandering to her party. If she really believed in this she'd have done it straight after Brexit. She's done it after conference I believe. The polls I believe all indicate that the leave vote is no better than the first referendum. She'll lose in any second referendum.

Nope as effective a.political operator as Sturgeon is I'm glad she's only at Holyrood. I never thought I'd see a better political operator in Scotland than Salmond but that's certainly Sturgeon.

pblakeney

Tangled Metal wrote:

AFAIK if Scotland left the union it wouldn't be any better than the UK since UK will have left EU before Scotland would have left.the UK so they'd have to rejoin anyway. If.they could get in that is. Scotland has a deficit about 9.5% of GDP I think I heard earlier today (or something like that). To.join the EU this measure should be 3% or less. I'm sure the EU.would just ignore their own rules anyway.

Sturgeon is pandering to her party. If she really believed in this she'd have done it straight after Brexit. She's done it after conference I believe. The polls I believe all indicate that the leave vote is no better than the first referendum. She'll lose in any second referendum.

Nope as effective a.political operator as Sturgeon is I'm glad she's only at Holyrood. I never thought I'd see a better political operator in Scotland than Salmond but that's certainly Sturgeon.

Alternate premise - It is simply a method of pressurising Westminster in the hope of A50 not being triggered and staying in the EU. Status Quo remains and most people are mightily relieved. All hail the hero.

tangled_metal

Brexit and a50 will be triggered Sturgeon's chances of affecting that are minimal to say the least.

cycleclinic

A50 has not been triggered yet. It was going to be by autumn then noises said end of the year now may says by march. When did we start believing politicians promises. Mays goverment is not sure what there plan is how it will affect the u.k and when a50 is used who knows what s*** storm might erupt.

pblakeney

Tangled Metal wrote:

Brexit and a50 will be triggered Sturgeon's chances of affecting that are minimal to say the least.

Possibly. Probably. I still think that there are more than a few in Westminster looking for an excuse for it not to happen.

bobmcstuff

Tangled Metal wrote:

Brexit and a50 will be triggered Sturgeon's chances of affecting that are minimal to say the least.

But at least she'll be able to stand up in front of her party and electorate (who voted 62% remain) and say she tried. Otherwise she'll get loads of stick, justified or otherwise, for standing aside and doing nothing.

socrates

Why bother spending money on a referendum for Scottish Independence. Just give them it and then they stop whining about Brexit and everything else.

thebikeboy16

Good for Scotland and Sturgeon. I'm indifferent about Theresa May at best.

Pross

It's very easy to be a great politician saying what everyone wants to hear when you know you'll never have to be in a position to deliver on your promises. Clegg got caught out like that. I often wonder why politicians are so keen to be in power as opposition politics should be the easiest job in the world (unless you're Corbyn of course).

BelgianBeerGeek

Sorry all, I seem to have forgotten what la sturgeon looks like. Can anyone oot there oblige..

Stevo_666

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Sorry all, I seem to have forgotten what la sturgeon looks like. Can anyone oot there oblige..

See if you tell the difference between Sturgeon and Wee Jimmy Krankie.

BelgianBeerGeek

Cheers Stevo, I knew you would come up trumps
Voila une femme, as they say in le EU lande...