Durability of Disc Wheels, especially Zipp 900

PTestTeam

mamba80 wrote:

Florian wrote:

Ok I see.
Thanks for the replies guys.
So I guess the real center of this discussion is STANDARDS.
I'm one of these extremely intense and picky guys who do everything at 200%. That's probably why I cannot understand the idea of using something "comfortable" for training. If something can make me faster, even by 0.1mph, I don't see why I wouldn't do it, even for a "training" (that I would call a "personal race").
I thought there might be other reasons than standards that I ignored, but apparently there isn't. Good!

i ve just bought a 2012 shiv with 808 and 900 tubs, i d not think twice about training on them IF i lived somewhere with decent roads.

the biggest problem is avoiding punctures with conti podium and hitting pot holes and damaging the carbon rims, in wet weather, carbon rims will wear in the wet more and be super expensive and inconvenient to replace, where the OP lives? not an issue.

Go for it bud and dont take any notice of the doomongers! there are no spokes in a 900 wheel and 808 is plenty strong.

its not like Lewis Hamilton practices in an old merc 320 is it?

Really? care to enlighten us? If you buy carbon specific pads like Swiss Stop Black Prince, it's the pad that wears down not the rim

Florian

@PTestTeam : got it, thanks.
I don't have "loads" of money, but I have just enough for it and I consider riding important enough for this, so I think it's worth it. Also, as I mentioned, having another wheel means extra expense too.
I know I'm not very far from competition level, but I think pros are a little above 30, no? Like 31-32. And at this speed 1mph makes a huge difference.
But yes, I do plan to train even more seriously so we'll see. But I never really liked this idea of comparing people together, which is what "COMPetition" is all about: division. I use to compare me with me. This translates into an addiction to growth, and that's how I like to live, and ride. That certainly doesn't make it less intense though.

imposter2.0

Florian wrote:

But I never really liked this idea of comparing people together, which is what "COMPetition" is all about: division. I use to compare me with me. This translates into an addiction to growth, and that's how I like to live, and ride. That certainly doesn't make it less intense though.

Logical fallacy 101 - if the only person you are competing with is yourself, then why do you need a disc wheel? They are usually bought to give competitive advantage, which surely wouldn't apply in your case?

fenix

I think you'll be a bit further away from the pros than you think you are. Is that 30mph wind assisted or downhill ?

FWIW - the 25m record in the UK is 34mph - and that's an out and back course.

PTestTeam

Florian wrote:

@PTestTeam : got it, thanks.
I don't have "loads" of money, but I have just enough for it and I consider riding important enough for this, so I think it's worth it. Also, as I mentioned, having another wheel means extra expense too.
I know I'm not very far from competition level, but I think pros are a little above 30, no? Like 31-32. And at this speed 1mph makes a huge difference.
But yes, I do plan to train even more seriously so we'll see. But I never really liked this idea of comparing people together, which is what "COMPetition" is all about: division. I use to compare me with me. This translates into an addiction to growth, and that's how I like to live, and ride. That certainly doesn't make it less intense though.

Yes I understand where you're coming from.
And you're right, Pro's are well above 30mph (the UK 10 mile TT record was smashed the other week at a speed near 36mph!). On the fastest 10mile course in the UK, 30mph rides are pretty common, even by guys (and girls) in the Vets category.

The beauty of time trial racing is that although you will be given a final position, it;s about beating yourself – attaining PB's at different distances and on different courses. And you won;t believe how much quicker you will go with a number pinned on your back!

Florian

@PTestTeam : haha. I don't exclude it, I was just saying that I never really cared about that in the past, about others and how fast they are comparing to me. Until recently I had no relative idea of my speed since all I've ever wanted was to be faster period, not faster than someone else. But I did realize recently that I actually get a decent speed, so why not. I'll probably get into it, will first start to train more strategically and get on Strava too which seems pretty cool to analyze everything and progress (just discovered the website last month, so I will use it)
Because I don't wanna compete to loose, if I really decide to "COMPare" it's to be the winner haha.
Yes, I like the idea of the number pinned on the back creating some drag...

PTestTeam

Florian wrote:

@PTestTeam : haha. I don't exclude it, I was just saying that I never really cared about that in the past, about others and how fast they are comparing to me. Until recently I had no relative idea of my speed since all I've ever wanted was to be faster period, not faster than someone else. But I did realize recently that I actually get a decent speed, so why not. I'll probably get into it, will first start to train more strategically and get on Strava too which seems pretty cool to analyze everything and progress (just discovered the website last month, so I will use it)
Because I don't wanna compete to loose, if I really decide to "COMPare" it's to be the winner haha.
Yes, I like the idea of the number pinned on the back creating some drag...

Not with this http://www.nopinz.com/product/nopinz-sp ... -retrofit/

pilot_pete

Florian wrote:

I'm a quite aggressive guy with this bike,

You appear quite aggressive on here as well.

Florian wrote:

180lbs, sprints and intense accelerations are frequent, I don't cruise, every training is like a race to me

Doesn't sound like time trialling to me.

Florian wrote:

I do mostly time trial rides of 45min at about 30mph, very straight and flat, but not always perfect road surface...

So do you time trial for 45mins or do you do as you said in the line earlier? They are different things.

Florian wrote:

Any experience with stress on disc wheels?

Yes thanks, I've been really stressed whilst riding my TT machine with a Zipp disk on.

PP

Florian

@PTestTeam : great stuff
@Pilot Pete : For sprints/TT I already clarified that earlier. For stress I mean stress on the disc, not you... Did you stress that disc? never noticed any issue?

Pilot Pete wrote:

You appear quite aggressive on hear as well.

Sorry, I just have very poor tolerance for people who choose to have a loser mindset, like naysayers, people hidden behind their computer frustrated with their life who just spread negativity as soon as they have an opportunity to do it (anonymously of course)
Another way to identify the loser mindset is a wonderful quote by Eleanor Roosevelt: "Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people".
So many people decide to have a small mind by focusing on you when you come to talk about an idea.
So yes, I might sound aggressive because I am totally allergic to small/frustrated minds.
But I agree that I should probably be nicer because there is a tragic truth about small and closed minds, it's that only a wide and open mind can change itself.

Semantik

Slowmart wrote:

I've run Roval discs since March and covered 5000km plus. I'm not renouned for gentleness with my kit but the wheels have never missed a beat and still roll smooth and true.

Jeez! The OP is not talking about wheels made for disc brakes. He is talking about disc wheels.

Like this one:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/zipp-super-9-di ... isc-wheel/

That clear now everybody??

simon_masterson

Anyone, pro or amateur, who is serious about racing TTs will train regularly on 90% race setup. That includes race wheels. I imagine that for many pro riders the idea of having a dedicated clincher disc with a training tyre on doesn't appeal all that much, but no doubt some of them will do.

There's no real reason not to if you can afford to replace your equipment when it wears out or breaks, particularly if you ride on good road surfaces anyway. Personally I would not deliberately opt for a tougher tub on any race wheel just for training purposes, but otherwise disc wheels are perfectly durable - though unless you get a spoked one (eg. Hed, Vision), you can't really true them, so they do have more of a prescribed service life.

Florian

@Simon Masterson : I see, thanks.
The weight is the only cons of a spoked disc? And "truabe" the only pro?

Semantik

Simon Masterson wrote:

Anyone, pro or amateur, who is serious about racing TTs will train regularly on 90% race setup. That includes race wheels. I imagine that for many pro riders the idea of having a dedicated clincher disc with a training tyre on doesn't appeal all that much, but no doubt some of them will do.

There's no real reason not to if you can afford to replace your equipment when it wears out or breaks, particularly if you ride on good road surfaces anyway. Personally I would not deliberately opt for a tougher tub on any race wheel just for training purposes, but otherwise disc wheels are perfectly durable - though unless you get a spoked one (eg. Hed, Vision), you can't really true them, so they do have more of a prescribed service life.

But to be fair the difference here is that the OP admits he does NOT race competitively at all against others, only ever rides alone recreationally.
The thread topic is a similar one to : 'Will I be ok commuting during the UK winter on my £8k carbon bike with Dura -Ace Di2?'
Personally I don't need an answer on that one. But someone else might.

mamba80

PTestTeam wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Florian wrote:

Ok I see.
Thanks for the replies guys.
So I guess the real center of this discussion is STANDARDS.
I'm one of these extremely intense and picky guys who do everything at 200%. That's probably why I cannot understand the idea of using something "comfortable" for training. If something can make me faster, even by 0.1mph, I don't see why I wouldn't do it, even for a "training" (that I would call a "personal race").
I thought there might be other reasons than standards that I ignored, but apparently there isn't. Good!

i ve just bought a 2012 shiv with 808 and 900 tubs, i d not think twice about training on them IF i lived somewhere with decent roads.

the biggest problem is avoiding punctures with conti podium and hitting pot holes and damaging the carbon rims, in wet weather, carbon rims will wear in the wet more and be super expensive and inconvenient to replace, where the OP lives? not an issue.

Go for it bud and dont take any notice of the doomongers! there are no spokes in a 900 wheel and 808 is plenty strong.

its not like Lewis Hamilton practices in an old merc 320 is it?

Really? care to enlighten us? If you buy carbon specific pads like Swiss Stop Black Prince, it's the pad that wears down not the rim

So you repeat to the OP pretty much word for word my original ans to Florian and then you want enlightening as to why rain, grit and grime wear down a super thin brake track that a carbon zipp 900/808 comes with?
so for you benefit, a few small pieces of grit embedded in a soft pad like a black prince will wear a carbon rim and as they are so thin esp on the 900, it will wear.
But if you d bothered to read where the OP lives, rain isnt an issue, so its irrelevant, which is what i said

end of day, the guy lives in LA, has time and attitude to ride on some decent kit, he doesnt yet race, cant see the problem with some people have toward him.

pilot_pete

But you ask a question, you don't like what you hear and then get aggressive and claim that everyone has a loose mindset (whatever that is).

It's a disk wheel, not designed for training, it's designed for all out speed in a time trial. If you choose to ride it all the time then great, go ahead. The brake track won't wear quickly because as you will know, you don't use brakes in a time trial...

You will get a satisfying 'whooshing' sound everywhere you go and really enjoy yourself. Everyone else will be in awe of your 'open mindset' and cheer you as you pass at 30+mph. Congratulations. Is that what you want to hear?

It's a wheel. It will wear out more quickly if you ride it everywhere rather than just save it for racing. It is not inherently prone to breaking under 'stress' and I knew what you were talking about, it's was a lost attempt at humour...

Stress on a wheel is relative. Hit lots of potholes with your Zipp disk (which you will do often judging by your comments on road surface conditions) and you are likely to cause it more damage than an alloy clincher with a high spoke count suitable for your weight with a 28mm tyre (sorry tire) which is what I ride about on in winter on the terrible roads here in Cheshire UK.

I save my disk for TT events, where I hit very few potholes as I know the courses I ride like the back of my hand.

Good luck with your training, let us know how long your disk lasts won't you?

PP

paul2718

Matthewfalle wrote:

Nah. You ride what you want when you want. I've trained and competed on the same kit and it never did me any harm.

Actually, I agree.

Flip side of your argument is that you turn up for your big event and ride an uncomfortable bike in the wrong position wearing uncomfortable clothes because you haven't ridden enough in them before .....

And this is a significant point.

But...

Part of it's in your head. You bring all your best bits out for the important race, and go faster. Well in my head.

I would probably do this even if I could afford to always wear a rocket science skin suit and run on TT specific tyres on a tri-spoke and a disc. With a following vehicle.

I don't think training is compromised by using less fast, more robust wheels and tyres. And clothing.

Paul

Matthewfalle

Semantik wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Anyone, pro or amateur, who is serious about racing TTs will train regularly on 90% race setup. That includes race wheels. I imagine that for many pro riders the idea of having a dedicated clincher disc with a training tyre on doesn't appeal all that much, but no doubt some of them will do.

There's no real reason not to if you can afford to replace your equipment when it wears out or breaks, particularly if you ride on good road surfaces anyway. Personally I would not deliberately opt for a tougher tub on any race wheel just for training purposes, but otherwise disc wheels are perfectly durable - though unless you get a spoked one (eg. Hed, Vision), you can't really true them, so they do have more of a prescribed service life.

But to be fair the difference here is that the OP admits he does NOT race competitively at all against others, only ever rides alone recreationally.
The thread topic is a similar one to : 'Will I be ok commuting during the UK winter on my £8k carbon bike with Dura -Ace Di2?'
Personally I don't need an answer on that one. But someone else might.

What is your answer to that one by the way?