Durability of Disc Wheels, especially Zipp 900

Florian

Hi there!

I have a BMC TM01 with Zipp 808 in the front.
I plan to get a Disc Zipp 900 in the back, but I never rode a disc before so I wonder a few things about it...

I heard Justin Rossi talk about preparation before the race, and he said "... then I put my disc on, and ..." so I wonder why would anyone wait to put a disc on? Is it not durable/fragile? Or is it just because it's awkward on the trainer?
I'm a quite aggressive guy with this bike, 180lbs, sprints and intense accelerations are frequent, I don't cruise, every training is like a race to me, so I don't want it to last just a couple months...
I do mostly time trial rides of 45min at about 30mph, very straight and flat, but not always perfect road surface...

Any experience with stress on disc wheels?
Thanks!

mfin

Not sure quite what the story is this bloke is saying. If he's warming up on a turbo trainer(?) it's probably because he'll wanna use a wheel with a cheap tyre and not wear an expensive tub on a turbo.

Florian

ok. So to you disc wheels are just as durable as any other good wheel?
There's no reason that a 900 would be less durable than an 808?

mfin

I can see nothing to worry about at all.

step83

Coming from mountain biking, Disc brakes are going to be just as durable as rim brake wheels.

Rossi probably had a rim brake wheel for the turbo so he cant brake, your not supposed to brake on turbos, that an why get more disc wheels than you need.

imposter2.0

Not really sure, but I think the guy is talking about disk wheels (ie solid) not disc brakes. Either way, it's all a bit random...

fenix

Why have you got a TT machine ?

"I'm a quite aggressive guy with this bike, 180lbs, sprints and intense accelerations are frequent, I don't cruise, every training is like a race to me"

You'd be better off with a road bike for sprints. TT bikes are exactly for cruising along at speed.


And these races - are they proper races - or just against yourself ?

Discs are heavier than normal wheels, not great in the wind, and give you a harsher ride.

By all means have one for racing - but its not an every day wheel.

mfin

Also OP, you seem to mentioning training on these wheels? Why would you train on an 808 and a disc, seems a bit mad.

Florian

@fenix: only time trials and I always ride alone, never in a group. It's really just straight and flat for 45min. I do nothing else than that. Yes some sprints sometimes but I was only mentioning that to explain the pressure I can put on them, not how I spend most of my time. I've never rode a road bike, TT is all I have ever rode.

@mfin: "Why would you train on an 808 and a disc, seems a bit mad."
You reach the whole point of my question: why mad? What's the problem? If every training is extremely serious for me, to the point where most people would call it race, why would it be "mad" concretely?
Would a disc start being misaligned after months of use under stress?

Thanks!

fenix

Well look at professionals - even someone like Tony Martin, or Dowsett. TT's are their speciality.

They don't train all the time on a TT bike with a disc. And they have all the kit you could wish for.

A road bike is best for most conditions. Save the disc for best - like the pros do.

And if every session you do is a race - then you're not training properly. Sorry,

Florian

@Fenix: Thank you but you still don't answer my question.
I know what others do, but I don't care. Anyone who does what others do will never go far at anything.
I care about the real matter: WHY?

fenix

Or you could learn from what the best in the world do ?

Any wheel only has a finite lifetime. I don't know anyone who rides a disc all of the time. I doubt it would last longer than a normal wheel - so it's either shorter or about the same lifespan. It's a more expensive way of cycling. Repeatedly hitting potholes isn't going to be good for it.

Matthewfalle

mfin wrote:

Also OP, you seem to mentioning training on these wheels? Why would you train on an 808 and a disc, seems a bit mad.

Because he can and he wants to. I know people who train, race and commute on Obermayers because they can and want to.

OP: they'll be fine. Carry on as you are.

PTestTeam

Fenix wrote:

Well look at professionals - even someone like Tony Martin, or Dowsett. TT's are their speciality.

They don't train all the time on a TT bike with a disc. And they have all the kit you could wish for.

A road bike is best for most conditions. Save the disc for best - like the pros do.

And if every session you do is a race - then you're not training properly. Sorry,

No they don't train with a disc but they do train a lot on their TT bikes to get used to the position and enable themselves to
get optimum power output in that position.

If the OP only races TTs then he should be training most of the time on his TT bike BUT using normal wheels, reserving his disc wheel for actual races

Florian

@Fenix: learning without understanding is not learning
@Matthewfalle: ok thank you!
@PTestTeam: avoiding the question again. Using a strong word like "should" without any "why" is a weird approach to me.

PS: I edited my posts, I said 800 since the beginning instead of 900.

fenix

I think Matthew agreed with me.

You can ride any wheels if money is no object.

What will you do on windy days ?

Florian

Ok so it's all about the fact that every wheel has a lifetime and so instead of wearing out a disc we would rather use a cheaper one? If so I'm ok, not that I have any money to waste, but we're talking about saving a hundred dollars a year, and also having to buy a second wheel, which is an expense too.

Usually there is no wind because I always ride at 5am (even though it's on the Los Angeles beach)
But disc in the BACK doesn't seem to be an issue with wind at all, in fact it should be quite the opposite because it is a bit like wind surfing

solstice21

Is this a wind-up or what? Train on crap wheels and train in tt position, save bling wheels for race day unless you're minted...then do what the f@ck you want.
If you're doing 'frequent sprints and accelerations' then you ain't TT'ing very well bud! ...Saying that- if you're averaging 30mph for 45 mins you'd be scalping me (and most people at open tt's in UK)

Florian

@Solstice21: let's not make it a who's better topic because it really doesn't matter since I do not compete with anyone but myself.
Let's try to stick to the question (which you did not answer either)
You can also say "I don't know". It might be the most appropriate answer.

slowmart

I've run Roval discs since March and covered 5000km plus. I'm not renouned for gentleness with my kit but the wheels have never missed a beat and still roll smooth and true.

Florian

Great, thanks.
Gosh that must be quite rare, I cannot find any other photo than this on the net: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 5808b4.jpg
Any reference to help my keywords?
Is there any spokes inside or purely disc?

imposter2.0

Slowmart wrote:

I've run Roval discs since March and covered 5000km plus. I'm not renouned for gentleness with my kit but the wheels have never missed a beat and still roll smooth and true.

You haven't read the thread properly...

Matthewfalle

Solstice21 wrote:

Is this a wind-up or what? Train on crap wheels and train in tt position, save bling wheels for race day unless you're minted...then do what the f@ck you want.
If you're doing 'frequent sprints and accelerations' then you ain't TT'ing very well bud! ...Saying that- if you're averaging 30mph for 45 mins you'd be scalping me (and most people at open tt's in UK)

Why does if have to train on crap wheels? He's worked for his nice kit, lives in a lovely part of the world so use the nice stuff.

Or is it a club thang that you have to use crap stuff?

paul2718

If you're competing then you probably bring out your fastest wheels, your fastest skin suit, your fastest bike, your fastest helmet, your fastest state of mind, for the actual competition and deliberately train on more robust, perhaps more comfortable, equipment.

I don't see why a disc wheel will be less robust than an equivalent spoked wheel but the fastest tyres are definitely less robust than the merely quite fast. Perhaps you need two disc wheels, one with an ordinary tyre, one with a TT special... And then two matching fronts.

Paul

Matthewfalle

Oops - double post!

Matthewfalle

Matthewfalle wrote:

paul2718 wrote:

If you're competing then you probably bring out your fastest wheels, your fastest skin suit, your fastest bike, your fastest helmet, your fastest state of mind, for the actual competition and deliberately train on more robust, perhaps more comfortable, equipment.

I don't see why a disc wheel will be less robust than an equivalent spoked wheel but the fastest tyres are definitely less robust than the merely quite fast. Perhaps you need two disc wheels, one with an ordinary tyre, one with a TT special... And then two matching fronts.

Paul

Nah. You ride what you want when you want. I've trained and competed on the same kit and it never did me any harm.

Flip side of your argument is that you turn up for your big event and ride an uncomfortable bike in the wrong position wearing uncomfortable clothes because you haven't ridden enough in them before .....

Florian

Ok I see.
Thanks for the replies guys.
So I guess the real center of this discussion is STANDARDS.
I'm one of these extremely intense and picky guys who do everything at 200%. That's probably why I cannot understand the idea of using something "comfortable" for training. If something can make me faster, even by 0.1mph, I don't see why I wouldn't do it, even for a "training" (that I would call a "personal race").
I thought there might be other reasons than standards that I ignored, but apparently there isn't. Good!

mamba80

Florian wrote:

Ok I see.
Thanks for the replies guys.
So I guess the real center of this discussion is STANDARDS.
I'm one of these extremely intense and picky guys who do everything at 200%. That's probably why I cannot understand the idea of using something "comfortable" for training. If something can make me faster, even by 0.1mph, I don't see why I wouldn't do it, even for a "training" (that I would call a "personal race").
I thought there might be other reasons than standards that I ignored, but apparently there isn't. Good!

i ve just bought a 2012 shiv with 808 and 900 tubs, i d not think twice about training on them IF i lived somewhere with decent roads.

the biggest problem is avoiding punctures with conti podium and hitting pot holes and damaging the carbon rims, in wet weather, carbon rims will wear in the wet more and be super expensive and inconvenient to replace, where the OP lives? not an issue.

Go for it bud and dont take any notice of the doomongers! there are no spokes in a 900 wheel and 808 is plenty strong.

its not like Lewis Hamilton practices in an old merc 320 is it?

Florian

@mamba80: ok nice, we have a very similar setup then Tubulars for me too. (I can't wait to have a flat and see how frustrated it makes me lol but it's ok I'll take it)
The roads are far from perfect in LA but it's not terrible either and I always keep a good eye on that to avoid them.
Ok, didn't know about rain! I guess I'm fortunate then
Thanks.

Matthewfalle

No problems at all with flitting with a tub - take old tub off, put new tub on, inflate and off you go: literally 5 minute job

PTestTeam

Florian wrote:

Hi there!

I have a BMC TM01 with Zipp 808 in the front.
I plan to get a Disc Zipp 900 in the back, but I never rode a disc before so I wonder a few things about it...

I heard Justin Rossi talk about preparation before the race, and he said "... then I put my disc on, and ..." so I wonder why would anyone wait to put a disc on? Is it not durable/fragile? Or is it just because it's awkward on the trainer?
I'm a quite aggressive guy with this bike, 180lbs, sprints and intense accelerations are frequent, I don't cruise, every training is like a race to me, so I don't want it to last just a couple months...
I do mostly time trial rides of 45min at about 30mph, very straight and flat, but not always perfect road surface...

Any experience with stress on disc wheels?
Thanks!

OK to answer your original question.

For most people, disc wheels are expensive, along with fast light tubulars. If I was to train on these day in day out I'm increasing the chances of puncturing the tubular and also wearing it out quicker. I;m also increasing the chances of damaging the dics wheel through accidents or hitting potholes etc.

That's why people save them for racing and use cheaper wheels to train on – clinchers are easier and cheaper to repair and the wheels are cheaper to replace.

Now if you've got loads of money then knock yourself out and train on a disc wheel with tubs.

And if you can manage 45mins at 30mph I suggest you enter some races because they're impressive speeds. You would go faster with a disc wheel.

And imagine how much faster you'd go if you actually trained smarter