Refused warranty

forest2003

Hi guys,

Anyone had trouble with a warranty claim before? I bought a carbon mountain bike frame about 4 months ago, and the chain stay snapped clean through. As it happened whilst riding down a hill it took me a while before I realised it was the frame that had broken. I didn't fall off or it hadn't been dropped or anything but when I have sent it off for inspection the manufacturer are saying that it was an external force and is not covered by warranty and they can only offer me a crash replacement! there is no other damage on the bike anywhere else so it is clear it hasn't been dropped or fallen off and I have since threatened them with the consumer rights act 2015 but they refuse to budge and stand by their decision. Has anyone else had anything similar and got any success by pursuing it or taking them to court or am I wasting my time?

FishFish

You are absolutely not wasting your time. The bike was not fit for use and the vendor did not say that the frame was not suited for use as a bike. Of course they will refuse to pay but continue the dialogue and take out a small claims court action.

forest2003

This is the damage that occurred

Long_Time_Lurker

Holy sh*t - clean through :shock:
Was expecting a hairline crack. What bike is it?

forest2003

I would rather not say the manufacturers name at this point, it a full suspension xc bike though. The break is through the seat stay not the chainstay. The breakage is approximately 6" up from the axle. As I said before i couldn't quite work out what was wrong when it first happened and I didn't notice the break. I was 1/2 way down a long grassy decent when I first noticed the tyre buzzing against the frame. I carried on riding to the bottom before I gave it a good look over and noticed the crack.

poah

they trying to say its accident damage?

forest2003

They say the breakage is a result of an external force and not manufacturing defect and therefore will not honour the warranty.

markhewitt1978

UK? Under the Sale of Goods Act it's up to them to *prove* that the damage was caused by yourself and not an inherent defect if it occurred within the first 6 months of ownership.

keef66

To me it looks like there's been some kind of abrasion from the drive side of the bike, suggestive of some kind of impact damage. I'm afraid I can see why they might not think it's a manufacturing defect, but good luck anyway.

superkenners

It would be helpful if you could let us know the brand so people could recount similar experiences. It's helpful for consumers to know what the level of customer service is on offer with specific brands. Brands after all are built on such things, and that counts irrespective of whether they eventually admit fault with the product and replace. And you are actually doing them a favour by highlighting the weakness in their business.

You'll probably find that your point of contact has a different view of things than the wider company leadership, who will value the brand over the cost of replacing one frame that does not appear to be fit for purpose.

FishFish

Superkenners is right but get someone else to let us know.

The Rookie

markhewitt1978 wrote:

UK? Under the Sale of Goods Act it's up to them to *prove* that the damage was caused by yourself and not an inherent defect if it occurred within the first 6 months of ownership.

SoGA is no more, do keep up at the back, its now the Consumer Rights Act. Otherwise the same principle applies. The argument is with the retailer though, not the manufacturer.

forest2003

It has been refused for the damage on the right hand side of the breakage. However, I can assure you that the damage was not present before the ride. I clean and inspect my bike after every ride and it was in perfect condition. So how could such abrasive damage occur during one ride? surely I would have felt this happening during the ride? My only conclusion is that this damage occurred after & because of the break. How else could this damage have possibly occurred? When sat on the bike the 2 broken stubs misalign quite easily and the wheel floats from side to side quite freely. In my opinion this instance is not clear cut. I do not want to name the manufacturer at the moment because I do not want people to think I'm on here to try and bad give the company bad publicity as that is not my intention. I simply want advice on whether people think it is worth me pursuing and if anyone out there has had success in the past fighting a warranty refusal by means of court action or alike.

oodboo

As someone else said it does look like some kind of abrasion. You also said it took you a while to notice.

What needs to be replaced? Rear triangle? Seat Stays? How much have they said for the crash replacement and does that include fitting?

forest2003

This is exactly what happened. I was following a couple a riders down a long hill which started off slightly rocky(but not loose rock) and then turned into a bone dry grass hill. Just after the rock section I heard my wheel buzzing against the frame and the back end felt loose. My initial thoughts were a blow out or the axle had worked loose. I stopped for a second to check the back tyre and the axle was still in place. The riders I was following had disappeared at this point so I jumped back on and limped it down the hill slowly whilst looking down trying to work out what was wrong. The frame breaking was the last thing in my mind. On reaching the bottom of the hill there was a small rock section and as I got to it the wheel got wedged. I then was forced to give it a good inspection and noticed the break. I dislodged the wheel and pushed it back to the car. It is only the rear triangle that is broken but the manufacturer said it has to be a replacement frame as no parts are available and the price of the crash replacement is 50% off + fitting and carriage.

forest2003

The total time riding after noticing the initial problem was around 7 mins.

The Rookie

Your contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer.

The fact the manufacturer no longer makes the part isn't your fault and is of no concern of yours.

Deal with the reatler and mention teh consumer rights act, you may need to be prepared to make an MCOL.

forest2003

Not wanting to give too much away but the manufacturer and retailer are the same company.

The Rookie

Lol, OK start on at them with Consumer rights act (be polite and constructive for now) ask them for the evidence of a failing instigated by your actions. If the failure happening while you were moving tyre contact was likely to happen before you stopped so that of itself isnt evidence.

forest2003

So far they have refused to warranty the frame and claim the markings are enough evidence to prove that the frame failed due to an external force. I have asked them to prove to me that there was no defect on that frame before it was shipped to me and have been told to do that it would require shipping to the head office for a scan and would be a 4-6 week wait. I don't quite understand why it needs to be sent for a scan to prove the defect wasn't there prior to shipping. They have given me 3 options

Send the bike for further investigation 4-6 weeks
Buy a crash replacement frame
Have the bike shipped back to me as is.

I have told them I would like to have the bike evaluated by an independent party and them to send me any pre shipping reports/tests that were carried out and only then will I make a decision wether to buy the crash replacement. I am thus waiting a reply....

I have already spoken to a lbs who have said the evidence is inconclusive. He told me that had it been specialized or trek, etc they always give the customer the benefit of the doubt.

It's really aggravating as I genuinely have done nothing to the bike for this to happen. If I knew in that something had occurred I would take it on the chin. I just don't fancy laying out another wedge of cash for something that randomly happened and could quite easily do it again!

cooldad

I think if you want an independent evaluation you'll have to arrange that and pay for it yourself. If you are right, you would probably be able to claim the cost back off them.

forest2003

Yeah i know that. I have spoken to the LBS and they said they can get there mechanics to do me a report on their findings. They can also put me in touch with a carbon company who can give the frame a good check over. Will see what happens. I will try and post updates to the conclusion for interest.

mamba80

if its an online purchase, say from canyon/Rose, then you must have paid by CC ? or even part paid? if so, you ve a raft of rights under section 75 consumer credit act.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shoppi ... -purchases

i used this to get a set of wheels replaced and to get a certain germany on line retailer to get their act together.

Otherwise, i doubt you ll get anywhere.

forest2003

I certainly did pay by credit card and I intend to pursue this avenue next. Could you tell me a few more specifics about your case with the wheels? Were they refusing to change them?

fenix

If you don't get anywhere with the claim - you can get it repaired pretty reasonably -

This is just one company that does it.

http://spirecycles.co.uk/services/carbo ... e-repairs/

forest2003

Worst case scenario I'm insured for accidental damage so I would probably pursue that route. This particular frame is designed to flex in that area so don't know if I'd be comfortable with a repair

rockmonkeysc

I can see why it was refused to be fair. If it cracked purely through a weak seat stay I'd expect to see a longitudinal crack and I wouldn't expect it to look like it's been shredded.
With so many people trying to claim on warranty after they've ridden in to a tree at 40mph and broken their frame shops are starting to tighten up on claims.

larkim

But the important thing is that for the first six months of a consumer contract, the onus is on the retailer to prove that the goods weren't faulty when they left their premises. Remember that - they need to prove this. This means that if you were to take them to the small claims court, they would have to offer solid proof (on the balance of probabilities) that the goods were not faulty.

You have prima facie evidence that they were faulty (i.e. the frame failed during normal use with your assertion (potentially to be backed up by statements from those you were riding with that day?)). They have to prove they weren't.

Use the fact that you are within the six month window where your rights are strongest. Get a small claim in now, and don't start spending your own money on independent evaluations as that's not your responsibility. If they want to do that, that's their cost and expense which *might* prove their case, but which I suspect they'd find would be cheaper to settle with you rather than go through the risk of spending money with experts!

forest2003

As stated earlier I continued to ride the bike after the break. This could easily have created the kind of damage shown. As also stated I haven't fell off this bike, dropped it or anything, there is not a single other scratch on the entire bike. What would I have to gain by coming on here and lying to you all? This is exactly why I haven't named the manufacturer as it I'm not here to attempt to drag anyone's name through the mud.

fenix

Well that's the issue. The damage caused by carrying on riding has confused them.

apreading

All you guys quoting the consumer acts etc - is this valid for purchase from an overseas company? Is it EU wide?