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Relegation from WT

CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
edited December 2016 in Pro race
http://inrng.com/2016/09/the-relegation ... more-29951

I was pretty shocked to read that TDD were likely to be relegated from the WT at the end of the year - completely unscientific but my perception was that they have been very visible and good value with some decent wins. It seems that "joy for cycling fans globally" is not one of the criteria they assess for continued participation.

perhaps explains why we see so many balls-out sprints for minor places, or GC riders riding defensively for top-10 rather than making forum-pleasing hail-mary attacks.
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  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Will it make much of a difference to the races they ride? Surely they will get a wildcard for the tours? What are the other implications?
  • They talked about this on the cycling podcast - it seems bizarre. Tony Gallopin has contributed more points than Cavendish.
  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    They talked about this on the cycling podcast - it seems bizarre. Tony Gallopin has contributed more points than Cavendish.

    so has Alberto Bettiol

    no, me neither
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,933
    The problem is that are set up to go for stages which don't score much. They have no-one that can reliably pick up points in one way races or GC.
    Their whole team has only scored 326 World Tour points. That would only be enough for 8th place in the individual rankings (just ahead of Bardet)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Cannondale-Garmin-Drapac whatever vs DiData. Hmm. Which one's performances stand out in my memory this year? Not the vile green kit one
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,150
    If I'm not mistaken this is about consistent finishing high up the ranks. Agreed that Qhubeka have had a decent year of wins, but, to be harsh, when they aren't winning they are out the back in the autobus. They need guys to be constantly fighting for the minor placings (if not going for the podium) everytime... and I do fear that they just don't have the depth within the team to do that.

    Also, wonder about the impact of losing Louis Meintjes...
  • Crozza wrote:
    They talked about this on the cycling podcast - it seems bizarre. Tony Gallopin has contributed more points than Cavendish.

    so has Alberto Bettiol

    no, me neither

    Oliver Naesen has the same number as Cavendish. This is because a win in the Bretagne Classic - Ouest-France is equivalent to four stage wins in the Tour de France. Bettiol came second there giving him 60 points from that race. Also, Macej Paterski's 6th place there is worth more points than a Tour stage win.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,150
    This may come as a shock to some people, but there is more to professional cycling than the Tour de France...
  • dish_dash wrote:
    This may come as a shock to some people, but there is more to professional cycling than the Tour de France...

    And everyone dreams of winning the whatever race I mentioned before and even I've forgotten.
  • dish_dash wrote:
    This may come as a shock to some people, but there is more to professional cycling than the Tour de France...

    And a stage win in the Dauphine is worth a ninth place in E3 Harelbeke.

    Basically, stage wins anywhere aren't worth much in this ranking.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,150
    dish_dash wrote:
    This may come as a shock to some people, but there is more to professional cycling than the Tour de France...

    And everyone dreams of winning the whatever race I mentioned before and even I've forgotten.

    But that's not what WT points are about are they? They are about creating a framework for the sport where it doesn't just end up as a single event sport.

    As far as I can tell the WT point system incentivizes top teams to show up and compete at a wide range of races. We need a wide range of races to enable riders to compete across the season and for provide opportunities for new riders to grow and develop.

    I'm a big Qhubeka fan, but I fear that they decided to put all their cards into a few key high profile races (to build awareness for Qhubeka etc.) and didn't pull their weight or perform in many other less high profile races... the team clearly haven't earned enough points. That may be harsh but it also highlights the tension in the sport and its future.
  • True enough.
  • Well, lets hope our sport's sponsors are happy to continue fork out the same money for far less exposure under this new system.
    Meanwhile, those lovely humanitarian chaps from Bahrain get to show their free pass, as they wipe their feet on the WT welcome mat.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Quite right. 8th place in Quebec worth more than a Tour stage win.

    One day races are given far too much weighting. It's a nonsense.

    I've had the same problem with my fantasy team, have done really well in stage races all year yet someone like Bouhanni or Coquard or GvA scores half as many points for winning one race as Froome does for winning the Tour. How does that work?
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,150
    Well, lets hope our sport's sponsors are happy to continue fork out the same money for far less exposure under this new system.
    Meanwhile, those lovely humanitarian chaps from Bahrain get to show their free pass, as they wipe their feet on the WT welcome mat.

    Hang on... this isn't a new system though. It's been around since 2009. It's just that over the past couple of years there hasn't been any competition for WT slots and there is this year.

    Same thing happened a couple of years ago with AG2R signing a couple of Iranians to boost their points...

    From next year more races get included in the WT so theoretically provides more opportunities to rack up points.
  • dish_dash wrote:
    Well, lets hope our sport's sponsors are happy to continue fork out the same money for far less exposure under this new system.
    Meanwhile, those lovely humanitarian chaps from Bahrain get to show their free pass, as they wipe their feet on the WT welcome mat.

    Hang on... this isn't a new system though. It's been around since 2009. It's just that over the past couple of years there hasn't been any competition for WT slots and there is this year.

    Same thing happened a couple of years ago with AG2R signing a couple of Iranians to boost their points...

    From next year more races get included in the WT so theoretically provides more opportunities to rack up points.

    Well, it is a new points system and the number of teams has been significantly cut during that time and will likely be cut again to 16. It's never really an issue, but for signing those points ponies.
    I'll settle for re-vamped.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    So what it amounts to is :- Cavendish and Edvald Boasson Hagen havn't taken part and won enough Chipper, Shyte small races.
    So now they will have more chances to win such races.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • EBH is going for GC in Eneco this week, partly with this in mind.

    I do think it's a bit silly that riders like that are seen as being as good as Cav, but then I do see why the points system is set up in the way it is.

    But as previously mentioned, maybe this will be a blessing in disguise for DDD, as they will still be invited to the top events and won't have to mess around with the new World Tour format.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Probably a reason why Cav was pulled from Eneco to ride all the Italian Classics.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    It does show the wisdom of the forum. When we get sprint stages in GT's, the page count is low, therefore they are of lower value.

    So it all makes sense :P
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,933
    iainf72 wrote:
    It does show the wisdom of the forum. When we get sprint stages in GT's, the page count is low, therefore they are of lower value.

    So it all makes sense :P
    Maybe Cavendish should get extra points for not winning.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    It does show the wisdom of the forum. When we get sprint stages in GT's, the page count is low, therefore they are of lower value.

    So it all makes sense :P
    Maybe Cavendish should get extra points for not winning.

    Good thinking. That would be consistent with the evidence.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • iainf72 wrote:
    It does show the wisdom of the forum. When we get sprint stages in GT's, the page count is low, therefore they are of lower value.

    So it all makes sense :P

    Yes, erm this 80 pointer was popular. viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=13069460&p=19951168
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,933
    Rankings lunacy:

    Peter Sagan & Greg Van Avermaet went to Canada recently and each came first and second. For this they each received 140 points.

    For coming second in the Vuelta (excluding stage result points) Chris Froome got 130. (He got 38 for stage results).

    Also on the UCI World Rankings*, PS & GVA got 900 points. For winning the Vuelta, Quintana got 850.


    (*in case you hadn't noticed - no reason you should - the UCI now have two rankings. A rolling World Ranking (1st Sagan) and an annual World Tour Ranking (1st Quintana))
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,150
    Presumably having Oli Cookson as a DS means that Brian will give Qhubeka a waiver and that they will stay in the WT, non?
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 3,848
    Does seem crazy that a tiny race lower placing can be worth more than a GT stage win.
  • dish_dash wrote:
    Presumably having Oli Cookson as a DS means that Brian will give Qhubeka a waiver and that they will stay in the WT, non?



    Bwahahahaha
  • ridgeriderridgerider Posts: 2,827
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Does seem crazy that a tiny race lower placing can be worth more than a GT stage win.

    I can sort of understand it. One day race results could be regarded as a true reflection of the abilities of the riders in that race on that day. Whereas stage results within Grand Tours are very often influenced by the stage before or the stage after so could be regarded as a less true reflection of the ability of the winner, hence the lower point allocation.
    Half man, Half bike
  • What a bizarre way to end the season for DD. I found them to be one of the more aggressive teams in the major GTs. Surely Cummings ToB win is worth a few hundred points?
  • What a bizarre way to end the season for DD. I found them to be one of the more aggressive teams in the major GTs. Surely Cummings ToB win is worth a few hundred points?

    Not a World Tour event so zero points.
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