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Knocked off in a car park

StalexcalStalexcal Posts: 25
edited October 2016 in Commuting general
I'm in need of some advice.......
I was knocked off my fully lit bike in a virtually empty Tesco car park last Thursday night at about 25 mph...the male driver just didn't see me at all and t-boned me, going through a ped crossing in the process. No CCTV.
I ended up going straight over the car leaving me with a number of (fairly superficial) injuries and a very badly bent Cannondale Bad Boy 8 and some damage to other property watch, ring etc.
They stopped and came back to check if I was still breathing (I was) and when I didn't accept the drivers offer of £200 to "sort my bike out", he and the female passenger promptly swapped seats and fled the scene as I said i was calling the police.
I snapped their number plate and gave that to the police who attended briefly and they went to search for the errant driver.
To date I have heard nothing from the police re driver, insurance etc despite them having a picture of the reg number.
Q. Are private car parks (with public access..no barriers at anytime) treated as Public Highways.
Q. Did the driver commit an offence for not giving me their insurance details and leaving the scene of an accident.
I am slightly worried that the driver may have been a) drinking b) uninsured c) unlicensed hence the change of seats by the occupants and driving in an empty car park late at night, long after the shop was closed.....Q. and could this invalidate any insurance applicable to the car?
I have filed a V888 to get the name and address of the registered keeper in an attempt to track down the driver but I suspect that this is going to end up with me filing a summons for damages with the courts (If I get the details) or approaching the MIB to claim against an uninsured driver.
Either way....a ungodly load of hassle!!
There are 10 types of people who understand binary...those that do and those that don't.
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  • Stalexcal wrote:
    Q. Are private car parks (with public access..no barriers at anytime) treated as Public Highways.

    Yes the Road Traffic Act applies anywhere the public has normal access
    Q. Did the driver commit an offence for not giving me their insurance details and leaving the scene of an accident.

    Yes.
  • The insurance may be invalidated as between the company and the driver but not between them and you. They will pay out regardless. Have you checked DVLA and ASkMid to see whether taxed, insured etc?
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
    https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
    Facebook? No. Just say no.
  • And yes as above, insurance claims by a third party cannot be invalidated by anything that the driver does - that in fact is the entire point of why we have third party insurance to cover for when the policyholder is being reckless.

    Check tax here: https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
    Insurance here: https://ownvehicle.askmid.com/
  • Thanks for the pointers...it is taxed, Mot'd and insured and I now have the telephone number for their claims dept 8)
    There are 10 types of people who understand binary...those that do and those that don't.
  • Stalexcal wrote:
    Thanks for the pointers...it is taxed, Mot'd and insured and I now have the telephone number for their claims dept 8)

    Nice one. Now of course you'll have to go through the whole "It wasn't me" "I wasn't there" blah blah. Good luck!
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,756
    You'll be in a strong position with the insurance company, once their customer behaves dishonestly (illegally in this case by leaving the scene and presumably not reporting it either) then they will pay up, they know in court that that dishonesty would reflect on just about anything else they then claim. Google Elliot v Loake as an example.

    I'd also be asking the Police if they intend to prosecute for failing to stop and failing to report.

    Your photo is handy as he can't deny being at the location but I wouldn't mention it at first, let him deny the car being there first....

    If the car is insured but the driver wasn't the insurer still has to pay out under the Road Traffic Act, but they will then seek to recover that payout from their customer. Make it clear which was driving when the incident first occurred.

    To err is human, to be morally bankrupt requires several large books being propelled in his direction!
  • The best general advice I can give is keep hassling the insurance company, call them regularly. They are usually all too happy to sit on their hands and do nothing unless you push them.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    I'd think this case might benefit from the help of someone like Bikeline maybe ?
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,533
    IF you have British Cycling or CTC membership then get them to start their free solicitor process. If not, find a no-win no-fee type lawyer - there are plenty on the web. You will probably struggle to deal with the insurance company yourself.
  • Many thanks to all....
    I have chased the Police to see if they intend to prosecute.....no communication from them at all....nothing.
    I have contacted the driver's insurance company and have a reference number and a contact but may well instruct solicitors on my behalf as (point taken) they will no doubt just fob me off as an individual.
    The insurance company knew nothing about the incident and it had not been reported....probably due to potential driver issue.

    I have taken some proper photo's of my mangled wheel and forks and tried to measure if the frame was bent last night by tying string around the head tube and crossing it under the top tube and tying it to the rear drop outs...there is a 10mm difference in the measurement from string to the seat tube on either side and two rather nasty dents in the down tube. Am I safe to assume that the frame is buggered on a Cannondale Bad Boy 8?
    There are 10 types of people who understand binary...those that do and those that don't.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 6,180
    Stalexcal wrote:
    Q. Did the driver commit an offence for not giving me their insurance details and leaving the scene of an accident.
    And interesting that they swapped seats. Disqualified driver perhaps?
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,533
    I dont know how well the string method will work, although sounds iteresting and could be an indicator - sounds a bike like the Park Tools alignment checker: http://www.parktool.com/product/frame-a ... uge-censored -2#. What I do know is that when I took mine to LBS, they popped the back wheel out and screwed separate rods into each side - this checks the dropout alignment which is also important: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... -section-2
  • Stalexcal wrote:
    I have taken some proper photo's of my mangled wheel and forks and tried to measure if the frame was bent last night by tying string around the head tube and crossing it under the top tube and tying it to the rear drop outs...there is a 10mm difference in the measurement from string to the seat tube on either side and two rather nasty dents in the down tube. Am I safe to assume that the frame is buggered on a Cannondale Bad Boy 8?

    You need to get it properly assessed by a bike shop or similar and them to prepare a report, the insurance company won't accept your personal assessment.
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,533
    You need to get it properly assessed by a bike shop or similar and them to prepare a report, the insurance company won't accept your personal assessment.

    ^this

    The bike shop will normally charge a small fee to provide the report but normally they knock this off the price if you buy the replacement bike from them. Unless they know you and trust that you will probably buy the bike from them without commitment. They will quite probably inspect the bike for free to tell you if it is OK or not.
  • Stalexcal wrote:
    there is a 10mm difference in the measurement from string to the seat tube on either side and two rather nasty dents in the down tube. Am I safe to assume that the frame is buggered on a Cannondale Bad Boy 8?
    I would say so, aluminium doesn't bend well, it bends back even worse, Add the dents into mix...........
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    I dented my CX bike 6 years back on the top tube. Bars spun back into it and dinged it. Its fine but that was my fault.

    In this case Given the 1cm difference plus the ding I think the Insurance will write it off. I'd probably still be riding it for short journeys but not for anything massively speedy or challenging.

    Get yourself legal help. And pics of your injuries too.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,756
    Stalexcal wrote:
    Q. Did the driver commit an offence for not giving me their insurance details and leaving the scene of an accident.
    And interesting that they swapped seats. Disqualified driver perhaps?
    Disqualified, uninsured, OPL, could be many reasons including his partner decided she was a better driver!

    The insurance company won't get back to you until they have given the insurance holder a chance to respond, they may not be in a rush to reply.

    Keep track of all your costs from the incidence including alternate transport.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,599
    I had a similar incident with my son a few years back, although with lot's of useful witnesses, including a teacher, bus driver, retired general and a priest (no kidding)
    The TP just wasn't cooperating with his insurers, so I mentioned that at this point we were just looking for the cost of repairs, but he had been mentioning a bit of pain, might need to have it checked out properly. I had a settlement withing 48 hours.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,038
    Did you go into the store and ask to see the manager re any CCTV?
    Without that, I very much doubt this will come into your favour.
    It'll be a case of - prove it happened... Strava wont help.
  • JGSI wrote:
    Did you go into the store and ask to see the manager re any CCTV?
    Without that, I very much doubt this will come into your favour.
    It'll be a case of - prove it happened... Strava wont help.

    Doubt in what respect? Police action or civil claim? Unless the insurers believe the OP is trying it on then something will be done. If they don't there's the MIB option.
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
    https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
    Facebook? No. Just say no.
  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    Sounds similar to my accident a few years ago; wholeheartedly recommend solicitor, certainly via CTC or BC, as I don't think my claim would have been taken as seriously otherwise.

    In the end their insurance paid up but the police (despite having multiple independent witnesses, albeit those who were about to take part in a sportive) decided not to pursue it.
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,038
    Well if you get a positive outcome, I'll say well done.... I just doubt all the hassle you are embarking on will leave you more out of pocket.
    No cctv no witnesses . if they catch the bloke... is he really going to admit it now?
    Unless plod has a change of heart and decide prosecute ... but despite a broken bike.. hard evidence of his guilt?
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,756
    JGSI wrote:
    I just doubt all the hassle you are embarking on will leave you more out of pocket.
    That would be good wouldn't it?
  • Stalexcal wrote:
    and when I didn't accept the drivers offer of £200 to "sort my bike out",

    This makes me laugh in a "typical non-cyclist doesnt have a clue" way, they think cycling is that cheap. To replace some bikes try add a zero onto the end of that.
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
  • Update

    Heard zero from Plod.....no communication whatsoever.
    Found out the Insurer via the link above and contacted them. They took details of the accident and said they would investigate with their client.
    Client (who was the passenger!) initially denied the incident took place but when presented with evidence came clean and admitted she had let a friend drive.
    Ins Co asked me to sign over all rights for them to pursue their own client (or the driver..should he be identified as may have 3rd party ins) via court proceedings.
    I stated that I was unhappy to do so without some agreement from them regarding the amount for settlement.
    Sent damage reports for bike, watch & ring to totalling £1775 (bike is a write off @ £1400) and claimed for two days loss of income (£642 after tax and NI) totalling £2417 together with photographic evidence of the injuries sustained and asked for an offer in full and final settlement.
    Got a call from the Ins Co last night......offered £4k, I asked for £6k and settled on £5k...all sorted in 5 mins.

    So essentially....£2583 for cuts and bruises....I could make a career out of that!

    I am thinking a BMC AC01 Alfine 11 2016 has my name on it :-)!!!

    Thanks to all for advice and pointers.
    There are 10 types of people who understand binary...those that do and those that don't.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,756
    Well done, as I said before once its on record that a customer has lied they will fold very quickly.

    Someone is going to see their premiums rocket and be in a world of hurt with a court claim for £5K coming, shame plod didn't go after the dual criminal offences of driving uninsured and permitting, or maybe they will if you pass this info to them.
  • Well done indeed. Just goes to show, and I've seen this in the past, these people try and use legal speak to try and get out of things, but when you read the words it's all full of may, might etc and means nothing but scare tactics.Be factual, and stand strong and they cave easily as it is quicker and cheaper. With a small percentage then they lose less than doing the belligerent interactions.

    Plod I gave up on years back. Unless they can do you for speeding then they don't care less.

    Cynical? Moi?
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,533
    Now that it is done, can you tell us what the evidence was? You said you snapped their number plate - did you have other pics too? Glad it went your way, and so quickly too.
  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    Yes, well done.... a lot quicker than mine which took 18 months to resolve. I settled for 4.5k; 1k for bike and expenses + 3.5k for bruising, cuts and 8 stitches.
  • apreading wrote:
    Now that it is done, can you tell us what the evidence was? You said you snapped their number plate - did you have other pics too? Glad it went your way, and so quickly too.

    All I had was the photo of their number plate, plus a description of the car (in fairness. I had no idea what it was...it all happened so quickly and was so dark...so I just entered the Reg No in Halfords website and it identified the car as being a Toyota Yaris...so I bluffed them on that) together with a reasonably accurate description of the passenger/Insured...(thanks DVLA/facebook :-)!!)
    Tesco did not have CCTV in the car park but the entrance/exit to the car park is covered by CCTV as it is immediately adjacent to the store front....so it wouldn't have been very difficult to place the car there at the correct time entering and leaving the car park (along with me lit up like a Christmas tree somewhere in between).
    There are 10 types of people who understand binary...those that do and those that don't.
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