I raced this weekend and......

124

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  • LatimerC
    LatimerC Posts: 5
    Raced yesterday at Round 12 of the central league in Berkhamsted - it was truly EPIC: some sloppy mud, slippery off camber corners, sand, mech-destroying Gravel, tree runs, and a MASSIVE BRIDGE

    plus Xmas songs on the tannoy....

    Pretty much everything I like about cross in one place - lots of Run vs Ride choices to be made, terrain pushing my bike and it's tyres to their limits and plenty of opportunities to use (my somewhat limited) technique to level the playingfield a bit against the fitter riders :D
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    It was good to catch up briefly with TGOTB at the Lewisham Yule Cross on Tuesday. First race at a new venue, Beckenham Place Park, and the course was a pretty good one on a recently closed golf course. Nothing technical but some of the corners were slick enough to catch the unwary out.

    I raced singlespeed and got the gearing spot on, with 42x20. Was as high as 6th at one point but was very happy to finish 8th.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    andyp wrote:
    It was good to catch up briefly with TGOTB at the Lewisham Yule Cross on Tuesday. First race at a new venue, Beckenham Place Park, and the course was a pretty good one on a recently closed golf course. Nothing technical but some of the corners were slick enough to catch the unwary out.

    I raced singlespeed and got the gearing spot on, with 42x20. Was as high as 6th at one point but was very happy to finish 8th.
    Great to catch up, great ride!

    I pre-rode the course, concluded that there was no way I'd need the pit bike (and if I did, I'd have to run a very long way to get to it) so I left it on the car. At the end of lap 3 I went for an extra-low gear that wasn't there, stuck the mech in the rear wheel, and broke the hanger. Must have happened all of 20 yards before the pits :roll:
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    I did wonder what happened to you, because I assumed you had a pit bike. I thought maybe you'd overdone the Christmas food in the previous days, like I had when we raced the final ever Footscray event. :D
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    Raced at pwllheli today only fell off once & no mechanicals finnished mid field somewhere as usual



    Think i could of done with some of thoose extreme mud tyres x one bite tyres as has alot of back wheel spin. Quad bike riders had churned up a section the course before the race
  • Jterrier
    Jterrier Posts: 97
    Did the wessex cx race in soton. Learned a lot about traction limitations, avoiding wheelspin, running versus riding (plus benefits of sometimes running with the wheels on the ground using the thin bit of grass underneath the tape barriers - you can really sprint if not shouldering bike), how great toe spikes are, 3 points of contact when really tottering around off camber, and how putting on a 38t ring was a great move as it put me right in the sweet spot on the cassette. Watched a guy with x-one bites absolutely waltz away with a massive grip advantage. Watched loads of guys with pit bikes and crews also have a massive advantage.

    Started okish, made up some places, held onto my position, finished fairly strong. Dont know where yet.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    I was at Southampton too. Was good fun.

    My teammate Dan who had the X bites on one bike always wins anyway, so it's hard to ascribe much magic. I did chat to him afterwards and he had Limus tubs on the other bike, and did say that the X bites felt more grippy. It was his first race on tubeless and he's quite excited about them.

    I think having the pit crews helped a bit yesterday, but I rode a classic two bike strategy (change at halfway point) and didn't feel I lost any places as a result of that. People with only one bike probably lost out a bit, but not anymore than you'd expect this time of year.
  • 211dave112
    211dave112 Posts: 125
    I was at Southampton as well.

    Using X-One Bites (albeit the clinchers at 30psi rather than my usual tubeless setup at 25-ish). Found the traction to be great when cornering, on some of the draggy uphill parts and the little off-camber part. They didn't seem to clog up much either which was a nice surprise.

    I actually had another spare bike but stuck to the one as I thought the extra traction of the x one bite's outweighed a clean bike with intermediate type tyres on - I am singlespeed (39x18 yesterday which was about right) so I wasn't worried about mechs clogging up.

    Got my best result of the season (though I am mid-pack finisher!)
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Are you aware of the European Singlespeed Champs in Brighton next month @211dave112?
  • 211dave112
    211dave112 Posts: 125
    andyp wrote:
    Are you aware of the European Singlespeed Champs in Brighton next month @211dave112?

    I am. Diary clash at the moment :(
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    Raced my last race of the season for me at Rockingham Wheelers Corby race in the Central league last Sunday. What a great course, made all the better due to the weekend of rain. A few technical descents and a section that gave three single track options through the woods and a great off camber section which could save you time if you could ride it and you had a recipe for great fun. A smaller field than most this season, possibly due to the weather or the distance but still happy with my finishing position. Had a great tussle with a guy until I got a gap on the last lap on the off camber bit and then he ripped his rear mech off just before the wooded section and had to run it home. I've not raced much this season and many courses have been grass crits due to our long summer but I'm already hanging out for September.
  • Mccrear
    Mccrear Posts: 256
    decided to dip my toe in after about 4 months of deliberation. managed to get an entry into the Albannach.cc organised RGCX in rouken glen, borrowed my brothers s/s cross check and gave it a whirl.... brutal. absolutely brutal. The course was really tough, amplified by a dousing of snow and rain leading upto sunday itself where it was mild and sunny. This made for a mud bath after the first lap, and my first big lessons!

    1) i need a smaller frame and bars - my brothers frame was a 54, and I'm normally a 52 but i didn't want to buy a new bike in case i didn't like it. BIG mistake. felt like i was riding my dads bike, and didn't really ever feel completely in control. i would be tempted to go for a 50 if (when!!) i buy my cx bike.

    2) PSI is SO important - think the tyres were prob still at 45/50 from when i used the bike on the road the week before... basically as soon as i got to the really mucky stuff i was off and pushing, and every technical section seemed to result in tyre slipping. amplified by the fact i had no granny gear meant there was a LOT of running

    3) S/S is good for winter training - it is NOT good for cross, unless you are a) a beast b) everyone else is also on a s/s. being passed by people twice my age & size on mountain bikes and cx bikes gave me real food for thought. as did my average HR of 180+ over the 1hr 10m...

    4) cantis should be called "can't eh's" - braking was pretty non existent. when i put the brakes on hard the fork just juddered and i slowed, slightly. it was probably a blessing that i was going turtle slow, as i may have had an accident otherwise! EVERYONE seemed to have discs, and i can see why. i seemed to be the only one clearing my wheel out every lap!

    5) its a race, not a procession - i actually found it really tricky to pass people and stay away. hopefully because of my lack of gears meant that even though i may have had the power/fitness on my side i lost any advantage i had as soon as the mud came into play. i probably should have been a bit cleverer and blocked/raced tactically but i felt like a bit of a #### when i did. i suppose i would get over it if i was at the sharp end, rather than bringing up the rear

    6) its brilliant - the set up, the organisation, the pre, post and during support was just great and unlike anything I've experienced in competition before. the racing seemed pretty fierce at the front but it was all above board, amicable and fun.

    i think I've probably got the bug, but now left with the pangs of "what if..." regarding buying a bike before the race. i suppose the fear was if i had the same experience but on a geared bike i may have just launched the thing and never looked at it again. at least now i know my base performance (i hope!!) and it gives me an idea of what i could achieve if i had a bike that fitted, gears and tyres at the right pressure!! i think i finished 5/6 off last out of 100+!!! i must have lost 8/9 places in the last lap due to my cantis just becoming mud magnets (probably due to all the running!) but in reality i just couldn't stay in the pack, as soon as i made ground i was so burst i lost twice as much when i ended up having to run/clear the wheels.

    theres always next week though!!



    ps anyone seen any good deals on small (50/51) cx bikes around here... must have discs and NOT be a s/s!
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    Mccrear, there's a Scottish Cyclocross group on Facebook. Join that, probably be a few bikes popping up now and when the Super Quaich has finished. If you enjoyed RGCX then make sure you do HalloX this year, it's awesome.
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    Mccrear, welcome to the church of mud and suffering. CX is a constant learning experience. Things you'll learn, you're never fully in control, run your tire pressures as low as you can without pinch flatting, granny gears don't help on most courses (if you're using a gear that low you're probably going to be faster running and in really muddy conditions you just wheel spin) and finally it's a great community with really friendly people
  • Mccrear
    Mccrear Posts: 256
    Thanks guys, much appreciated. ill check it out.

    ps any tips on clincher psi for cross? seems to be LOTS of differing advice.
  • 211dave112
    211dave112 Posts: 125
    Mccrear wrote:
    3) S/S is good for winter training - it is NOT good for cross, unless you are a) a beast b) everyone else is also on a s/s. being passed by people twice my age & size on mountain bikes and cx bikes gave me real food for thought. as did my average HR of 180+ over the 1hr 10m...

    What gear were you running? You say you were using the bike on the road last week, if you're using the same gear for the race then it was likely too high. I use 38/39x18 and find it about right for most courses though might go up to a 40 chainring or 16 cog (or both) for the early season grass crits.

    I've had my best results on a SS bike (I'm definitely not a beast either!) and have found it to be a great training tool - I've definitely improved a lot at carrying speed through corners/obstacles as it's a necessity to maintain momentum.

    Having said that - gears are definitely faster overall for most!
    Mccrear wrote:
    ps any tips on clincher psi for cross? seems to be LOTS of differing advice.

    On 33c clinchers with tubes I run about 30psi, tubeless I run about 23-25psi. I weigh about 70kg.
  • Mccrear
    Mccrear Posts: 256
    yeah i dont think i would have won or anything, but i did feel like i couldn't get the power down, especially on the 2 big hills. ATM the s/s is running 40t and 16 cog. i think on a flatter/drier course it may not have been so pronounced a difference but yeah it was tough.

    yeah i defo overestimated the PSI. think it was 40/45? although i felt fast on the tarmac section!! but it was uphill so see previous comment!

    joined that FB group, looks liek a great crowd so hopefully get some advice, and bargains, from there.

    cheers again folks.
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    I dont race but I do most of my riding on a fixed wheel (or SS if I have to). 211dave112 is pretty spot on with that gearing, no matter how strong you are. If I were racing I'd go with 39x18, this weekend I'll be going over the Dukes Pass on 48x16 fixed.

    Don't discount SS as a good option. Broken rear mechs are very common in cross but even gunked up mechs can end/ruin a race. An SS will just cut right through everything.

    30psi sounds about right. It'll really depend on your weight and, if you can be bothered to fiddle, the course. Head out to Rouken Glen or Pollock Park, ride some lines and grass and have a fiddle to see what works.


    The Scottish CX scene is brilliant. I have a mates who are racing/involved and know most of the Albannach guys, it's just a brilliant, friendly day out. The great thing is you'll end up knowing who you are competing with each week and you'll get a bit of banter from them. In many respects the racing is a bit like TTing, barring incidents you'll go pretty much as well as you can each week, you'll be competing in the same group and you'll see your improvement against your peers. It's not like road racing where tactics and course can play a much bigger role or MTB where technique and crashes cause issues (although practice your portage and mount/dismount!).

    I love to blame Strava for everything because it provokes a reaction but I think CX has remained more friendly than MTB and Road competition because it's pretty immune to the dreaded KOM. The courses are taped off, raced, then taken down. You don't get people out practicing week in, week out and trying to set records. It's only the racing that matters so you don't get the out-of-race competition and comparisons.
  • Mccrear
    Mccrear Posts: 256
    cheers hinault, appreciate the advice.

    ill maybe change the bars and chainring on the s/s and keep it as a pit bike - at worst ill look pro as ####, and it means i have a pretty strong chance of being able to finish most races even if my geared bike suffers a mechanical.

    ive been trying to get some training in at bellahouston and pollock, but i think rouken glen is probably the bets place as the diversity of that course was staggering. is that section of it open to the public year round?

    The Crowd and riders were very, very welcoming and it had a real family atmosphere too, which shouldn't be underestimated as if i want to be doing this regularly then i need somewhere i can bring the wee man whilst daddy embarrasses himself. Im gutted that i a) didnt get into this sooner and b) have pretty much missed the season but already enthused for end of 2017 which should make the training in spring and summer fly by.
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    Mccrear wrote:
    cheers hinault, appreciate the advice.

    ill maybe change the bars and chainring on the s/s and keep it as a pit bike - at worst ill look pro as ####, and it means i have a pretty strong chance of being able to finish most races even if my geared bike suffers a mechanical.

    ive been trying to get some training in at bellahouston and pollock, but i think rouken glen is probably the bets place as the diversity of that course was staggering. is that section of it open to the public year round?

    The Crowd and riders were very, very welcoming and it had a real family atmosphere too, which shouldn't be underestimated as if i want to be doing this regularly then i need somewhere i can bring the wee man whilst daddy embarrasses himself. Im gutted that i a) didnt get into this sooner and b) have pretty much missed the season but already enthused for end of 2017 which should make the training in spring and summer fly by.

    An SS in the pit is an excellent idea if you can do it and yes, you will look PAF!

    I'm unsure about Rouken Glen. I would suggest asking on the Facebook group and see what people say. I'm sure you can ride it whenever you want but race organisers put in a lot of effort with local councils etc. due to the damage that races do so there may be a general understanding about when it's acceptable to ride places used in races. Mugdock has a lot of places you can ride (basically anywhere you want, just avoid some of the MTB trails) and Cathkin Braes is probably a good place too. I occasionally ride some of the hills in Kelvingrove Park, obviously if it's about 8 degrees you have to avoid the sunbathers, and they can be good for a quick sprint test and practicing dismount and carry.

    The crowd is brilliant. I occasionally marshal if I'm free and I'm always impressed by the atmosphere and the friendliness of the riders, it's a proper family scene too.
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    Oh, just in case you didn't know, the results go up on mylaps pretty quickly.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Mccrear - good on you for giving it a go, the first step is often the hardest.

    I think you were definitely over geared, I usually run 42x20 when I'm racing singlespeed and when it's really muddy that can be a bit too high, but it's best to try a few ratios and see what works for you best. You can definitely be competitive on a singlespeed, my friend is regularly winning races on his, and is, I think, ranked in the top ten in the UK.

    Good mud clinchers, and I'd expect for Scottish conditions a mud tyre is essential, are available, my personal preference is for the Vittoria XL as it has a very aggressive tread and good clearance, but others are available.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    I raced the London League round at Jubilee Park in Leyton yesterday. London Phoenix did an excellent job of designing a really challenging course on what was, on the face of it, pretty non-descript terrain. Some really good corner combinations and they made great use of the available elevation changes around the park. The ground was frozen overnight but began to thaw during the v40s race, making concentration vital as corner conditions were changing on a lap by lap basis.

    My inconsistent training over the last six weeks quickly became apparent. I got a great start but then had to watch fitter riders get past me over the first couple of laps. It settled down after that and I hung on to a position on the cusp of the top twenty I think.
  • othello
    othello Posts: 578
    I 'raced' in the last Wessex CX yesterday, which had some of the trickiest conditions I've seen in a while. The top level of ground thawed during the morning, turning into sloppy, sticky mud. Underneath was ice. It took nothing to come off, and riders were going down everywhere.

    Great fun though, until I wrapped my rear mech around my cassette. :(

    IMG_5740.jpg

    I wasn't the only one either.

    Any tips/views on why it might have happened and how to avoid it? I hadn't crashed before hand to bend the hanger. I was pushing hard to get through the sticky mud when BANG. For info I was running 1x10 (38t front and 12-32 rear) with a short cage 105 10 speed rear mech.
    Blogging about junior road bikes http://junior-road-bikes.tumblr.com
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    othello wrote:
    Any tips/views on why it might have happened and how to avoid it? I hadn't crashed before hand to bend the hanger. I was pushing hard to get through the sticky mud when BANG. For info I was running 1x10 (38t front and 12-32 rear) with a short cage 105 10 speed rear mech.
    Looks like a standard clogged mech hanger failure to me. Jockey wheels clog up, becoming steadily more reluctant to pass the chain through, until you finally pull it round the cassette with the chain tension. Ways to avoid:
    - Stop and unclog it periodically (yeah, right!)
    - Pit bike
    - Single speed
    - Anecdotally, it seems like SRAM might be less prone to this type of failure

    Other possibilities:
    - Bent mech hanger, allowing mech to make contact with rear wheel (which you've already considered)
    - Poorly adjusted limit screw
    - Weak mech hanger (eg bent and straightened)

    Really though, it's just one of those things; do enough cross races, and at some point you're going to find yourself running round the course with your mech in the back wheel. For this reason, I'd recommend anyone who races to get a spare mech hanger for their bike, to save that stressful (and often fruitless) search for the right hanger just before an important race.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • Jterrier
    Jterrier Posts: 97
    I did the final round of the wessex cx at abingdon. Proper school day. I learned that my technique and confidence in slippery technical sections is garbage and needs improving. I am just too tentative and tippy toe (i think maybe better tires might help too). Conversely on the straights i was going like a train and overtaking people. So its not a fitness issue then... I am still learning so much. Also my preparation is poor.

    Had a good aggressive first lap mind you, elbows out and sprinted through quite a melee whilst making up places. After that i just flailed about and was a sitting duck in the twisty bits.
  • othello
    othello Posts: 578
    TGOTB wrote:
    Looks like a standard clogged mech hanger failure to me. Jockey wheels clog up, becoming steadily more reluctant to pass the chain through, until you finally pull it round the cassette with the chain tension. Ways to avoid:
    - Stop and unclog it periodically (yeah, right!)
    - Pit bike
    - Single speed
    - Anecdotally, it seems like SRAM might be less prone to this type of failure

    Yes, I think it was just accumulation of mud and the mech clogging. As I race for fun a pit bike is out of the equation, and as I ride a 60cm I can't borrow my kids/wifes small bikes!

    Single speed might be fun to try sometime though (ponders options and cost...)

    I think you are right about SRAM though. The mech design, and the jockey wheels with longer teeth looks like it will clear mud easier, than a 'normal' Shimano 105
    TGOTB wrote:
    Really though, it's just one of those things; do enough cross races, and at some point you're going to find yourself running round the course with your mech in the back wheel. For this reason, I'd recommend anyone who races to get a spare mech hanger for their bike, to save that stressful (and often fruitless) search for the right hanger just before an important race.

    With that in mind, 2 rear hangers ordered rather than one!
    Blogging about junior road bikes http://junior-road-bikes.tumblr.com
  • othello
    othello Posts: 578
    Jterrier wrote:
    I did the final round of the wessex cx at abingdon. Proper school day. I learned that my technique and confidence in slippery technical sections is garbage and needs improving. I am just too tentative and tippy toe (i think maybe better tires might help too). Conversely on the straights i was going like a train and overtaking people. So its not a fitness issue then... I am still learning so much. Also my preparation is poor.

    Had a good aggressive first lap mind you, elbows out and sprinted through quite a melee whilst making up places. After that i just flailed about and was a sitting duck in the twisty bits.

    You were not the only one finding the conditions tricky. Get through the top layer of mud and there was ice underneath.

    If you don't already, you should try and mix up your training with some CX skills sessions. There are a few around run by clubs groups, and they can really help with getting your CX cornering, dismount/remount etc dialled.
    Blogging about junior road bikes http://junior-road-bikes.tumblr.com
  • Jterrier
    Jterrier Posts: 97
    othello wrote:
    Jterrier wrote:
    I did the final round of the wessex cx at abingdon. Proper school day. I learned that my technique and confidence in slippery technical sections is garbage and needs improving. I am just too tentative and tippy toe (i think maybe better tires might help too). Conversely on the straights i was going like a train and overtaking people. So its not a fitness issue then... I am still learning so much. Also my preparation is poor.

    Had a good aggressive first lap mind you, elbows out and sprinted through quite a melee whilst making up places. After that i just flailed about and was a sitting duck in the twisty bits.

    You were not the only one finding the conditions tricky. Get through the top layer of mud and there was ice underneath.

    If you don't already, you should try and mix up your training with some CX skills sessions. There are a few around run by clubs groups, and they can really help with getting your CX cornering, dismount/remount etc dialled.

    I could really do with that. I know what i lack; it is speed in the muddy turns.
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    Time to bump this thread? Cross is coming.....

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