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Vuelta stage 17: "Climbing the Cliff" *spoiler*

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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,688
    Froome doesn't look like he has the legs to do anything special in the last few days of this race. Looks like he's clinging on for dear life right now.

    If he manages to keep 2nd by end-Sat, a back to back Tour win + 2nd place in the Vuelta isn't exactly a bad season tbf

    It's a credible showing although he doesn't have 2nd in the bag yet. It's possible that Contador will beat him in the TT.
  • Well, that climb delivered as much as expected: nothing.
    An absolutely useless, overly steep big lump.

    Since the announcement of the team folding, IAM can't stop winning.

    I guess you see what you want to. I saw a decent race for the stage win, a strong attack from Contador and a gutsy fightback by Froome. Like you'd expect from the last few km of a long climb.
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    Froome doesn't look like he has the legs to do anything special in the last few days of this race. Looks like he's clinging on for dear life right now.

    If he manages to keep 2nd by end-Sat, a back to back Tour win + 2nd place in the Vuelta isn't exactly a bad season tbf

    It's a credible showing although he doesn't have 2nd in the bag yet. It's possible that Contador will beat him in the TT.

    That would definitely raise some :shock: as Contador has not been the same flatland TT'er since his ban.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    Well, that climb delivered as much as expected: nothing.
    An absolutely useless, overly steep big lump.

    Since the announcement of the team folding, IAM can't stop winning.

    I guess you see what you want to. I saw a decent race for the stage win, a strong attack from Contador and a gutsy fightback by Froome. Like you'd expect from the last few km of a long climb.

    It added very little - pointlessly steep.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • okgo wrote:
    Well, that climb delivered as much as expected: nothing.
    An absolutely useless, overly steep big lump.

    Since the announcement of the team folding, IAM can't stop winning.

    I guess you see what you want to. I saw a decent race for the stage win, a strong attack from Contador and a gutsy fightback by Froome. Like you'd expect from the last few km of a long climb.

    It added very little - pointlessly steep.

    They seemed to manage to race up it.
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    hypster wrote:
    Imagine the race we would have had now if Froome/Sky hadn't been half asleep on stage 15? Quintana might still have taken say 50 seconds out of Froome on that final climb for a lead of 1:44. Game on.

    Everyone was on the limit on that climb. Quintana would not have taken anything like 50s.

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    okgo wrote:
    Well, that climb delivered as much as expected: nothing.
    An absolutely useless, overly steep big lump.

    Since the announcement of the team folding, IAM can't stop winning.

    I guess you see what you want to. I saw a decent race for the stage win, a strong attack from Contador and a gutsy fightback by Froome. Like you'd expect from the last few km of a long climb.

    It added very little - pointlessly steep.

    They seemed to manage to race up it.

    Barely.

    GC contenders all finished together. Yawn.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • joe2008joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    Timoid. wrote:

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Maybe try golf or tennis.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,166
    joe2008 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Maybe try golf or tennis.

    Indeed - it's had two of the best stages of the year by a long, long way.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:
    it's had two of the best stages of the year by a long, long way.


    shame about the other 15 stages .. still the Great British bake off has made a welcome relief to falling asleep in front of the TV
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,688
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Froome doesn't look like he has the legs to do anything special in the last few days of this race. Looks like he's clinging on for dear life right now.

    If he manages to keep 2nd by end-Sat, a back to back Tour win + 2nd place in the Vuelta isn't exactly a bad season tbf

    It's a credible showing although he doesn't have 2nd in the bag yet. It's possible that Contador will beat him in the TT.

    That would definitely raise some :shock: as Contador has not been the same flatland TT'er since his ban.

    I'm sure someone will be able to produce all the stats, but Contador finished 4th and beat Froome by nearly a min in 2014.
  • In the 70s the gear to have for the mountains was a 42 x 24... now they use a 34 x 28 for steep climbs. If you develop the ratios you get 1.75 back then and 1.21 now. In other words modern gears develop 69% of the distance, which means a climb can be nearly 1 and a half times as steep for the same cadence. So if an 8% climb was a grind back then, this is equal to a 12% climb today and an 8% climb today is like a 5.5% climb back then... hence the need for marginally steeper climbs that the Tourmalet.
    Of course you might argue that 1970s cycling was boring compared to today's, but I liked it more!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,437
    joe2008 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Maybe try golf or tennis.
    I watched the tennis yesterday. It was very entertaining. Andy Murray is frustrating though. If he had Froome's mental fortitude he'd have ten Grand Slams.

    Just three weeks to the Ryder Cup as well.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • I don't understand - do people want high levels of every sort of excitement on every stage and if they don't get that they'll be underwhelmed?

    I think it's been a cracking race this year.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    Its been good, but the constant obsession with stupid steep climbs, and stage like last Saturday where it was so hard very little could be done make it more of a spectacle than a race at times.

    The most interesting stage this year was the shortest one, they could learn from that.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,379
    Just because they were going slowly up the hill and the moto cameras were rubbish at keeping on top of the story, I don't think it was a poor race - it was poorly covered and represented on TV, but there was plenty going on - leaders being hauled back, front group attacks, distillation of the peleton into the four contenders.

    I do think that perhaps the spectacle looks reduced on roads with short, steep hairpins that the bikes seem to struggle with covering, but I actually don't think the stage end was any different (barring Froome staying on his bike) than say Ventoux this year?
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  • TheBigBean wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Froome doesn't look like he has the legs to do anything special in the last few days of this race. Looks like he's clinging on for dear life right now.

    If he manages to keep 2nd by end-Sat, a back to back Tour win + 2nd place in the Vuelta isn't exactly a bad season tbf

    It's a credible showing although he doesn't have 2nd in the bag yet. It's possible that Contador will beat him in the TT.

    That would definitely raise some :shock: as Contador has not been the same flatland TT'er since his ban.

    I'm sure someone will be able to produce all the stats, but Contador finished 4th and beat Froome by nearly a min in 2014.


    Bert also beat Froome in the 2012 Vuelta TT - placed 2nd behind Kessiakoff
  • okgo wrote:
    Its been good, but the constant obsession with stupid steep climbs, and stage like last Saturday where it was so hard very little could be done make it more of a spectacle than a race at times.

    The most interesting stage this year was the shortest one, they could learn from that.

    If you didn't enjoy last Saturday, then there's not much they can do.
  • larkim wrote:
    Just because they were going slowly up the hill and the moto cameras were rubbish at keeping on top of the story, I don't think it was a poor race - it was poorly covered and represented on TV, but there was plenty going on - leaders being hauled back, front group attacks, distillation of the peloton into the four contenders.

    I do think that perhaps the spectacle looks reduced on roads with short, steep hairpins that the bikes seem to struggle with covering, but I actually don't think the stage end was any different (barring Froome staying on his bike) than say Ventoux this year?

    With regard to cameras, was it because too many motos on the last climb would have potentially caused some difficulties due to the gradient/slow pace? Was it Angliru 2011 where one basically toppled over backwards?

    I thought it was a good finish but agree these types of climb should be limited.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,782
    Timoid. wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Imagine the race we would have had now if Froome/Sky hadn't been half asleep on stage 15? Quintana might still have taken say 50 seconds out of Froome on that final climb for a lead of 1:44. Game on.

    Everyone was on the limit on that climb. Quintana would not have taken anything like 50s.

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    I may have low standards but i think it's been good, if not great. Two of the best stages in a GT for a long time. I'd be interested to know which GTs have been better
  • hypsterhypster Posts: 1,210
    Timoid. wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Imagine the race we would have had now if Froome/Sky hadn't been half asleep on stage 15? Quintana might still have taken say 50 seconds out of Froome on that final climb for a lead of 1:44. Game on.

    Everyone was on the limit on that climb. Quintana would not have taken anything like 50s.

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Well FYI I just watched the stage that I have recorded again and Quintana was two minutes ahead of Froome when they started the last climb. He finished 2:40 ahead of Froome on the stage and got a six second bonus for finishing second so 50 seconds is not outside the realms of possibility is it?
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    hypster wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Imagine the race we would have had now if Froome/Sky hadn't been half asleep on stage 15? Quintana might still have taken say 50 seconds out of Froome on that final climb for a lead of 1:44. Game on.

    Everyone was on the limit on that climb. Quintana would not have taken anything like 50s.

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Well FYI I just watched the stage that I have recorded again and Quintana was two minutes ahead of Froome when they started the last climb. He finished 2:40 ahead of Froome on the stage and got a six second bonus for finishing second so 50 seconds is not outside the realms of possibility is it?

    Froome was knackered and mentally exhausted. If they had approached the climb together, I think there would have been very little difference.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    inseine wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Imagine the race we would have had now if Froome/Sky hadn't been half asleep on stage 15? Quintana might still have taken say 50 seconds out of Froome on that final climb for a lead of 1:44. Game on.

    Everyone was on the limit on that climb. Quintana would not have taken anything like 50s.

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    I may have low standards but i think it's been good, if not great. Two of the best stages in a GT for a long time. I'd be interested to know which GTs have been better

    It feels very B list. Quintana is the only big name rider who is in form. If Chavez was closer, it might be fun, but he isn't and it's not.

    As for the racing, other than stage 15 there has been a very familiar pattern to all stages. And (I am being harsh here) even that stage was fireworks for the first third and then settled into a pattern with a steady-ish gap to the end.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,166
    Timoid. wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Imagine the race we would have had now if Froome/Sky hadn't been half asleep on stage 15? Quintana might still have taken say 50 seconds out of Froome on that final climb for a lead of 1:44. Game on.

    Everyone was on the limit on that climb. Quintana would not have taken anything like 50s.

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    I may have low standards but i think it's been good, if not great. Two of the best stages in a GT for a long time. I'd be interested to know which GTs have been better

    It feels very B list. Quintana is the only big name rider who is in form. If Chavez was closer, it might be fun, but he isn't and it's not.

    As for the racing, other than stage 15 there has been a very familiar pattern to all stages. And (I am being harsh here) even that stage was fireworks for the first third and then settled into a pattern with a steady-ish gap to the end.

    Stage 14 was pretty good too... 2 stages with drama like that is not bad going for a GT. Certainly 2 more exciting stages than anything from the Tour this year (Ventoux farce maybe).

    Anyway having a few "boring" stages is a price you have to pay if you want a GC battle that is close until fairly late on (Stage 15 in this case) - if there had been more action earlier you lot would just be whingeing that the GC was dull instead. Can't have it both ways.
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    joe2008 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Maybe try golf or tennis.

    Why so salty?
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • Saying that stages 14 and 15 weren't really that good is revisionism of the worst kind. If you didn't enjoy those days, you may as well accept that it really isn't your thing.
  • Stage 3 had a really good finish, as did stage 6, stage 8 kicked off the GC, stage 10 was good, so was stage 11, stage 14 and 15 were great. 17 was only OK by comparison.

    Noone brought any really good sprinters, so the flat stages lacked a bit, and 13 was a bit dull.
  • joe2008joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    Timoid. wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Maybe try golf or tennis.

    Why so salty?

    Maybe cycling (as a spectator sport) is not your thing, and that's OK; some prefer the bish-bash of 20:20 cricket to the intricacies of a test match...
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    joe2008 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:

    Barring accident Quintana will win this underwhelming Vuelta

    Maybe try golf or tennis.

    Why so salty?

    Maybe cycling (as a spectator sport) is not your thing, and that's OK; some prefer the bish-bash of 20:20 cricket to the intricacies of a test match...


    Who made you the internetz forum tough guy? I watch cycling. Sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes I don't. I haven't really enjoyed this Vuelta. Why do you have such a huge issue with this?
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • Timoid. wrote:

    It feels very B list. Quintana is the only big name rider who is in form. If Chavez was closer, it might be fun, but he isn't and it's not.

    As for the racing, other than stage 15 there has been a very familiar pattern to all stages. And (I am being harsh here) even that stage was fireworks for the first third and then settled into a pattern with a steady-ish gap to the end.


    If it's B list then so was the Tour, Quintana was clearly off form, Contador withdrew. I don't think this Vuelta has been a classic but it's not been bad.

    It's also good to see Froome beaten if that happens, we need rivalries in the sport and for rivalries to develop we need the big names trading punches over a number of races rather than one rider sweeping all before him.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
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