Cycling speed

Anonymous

Maglia Rosa wrote:

FishFish wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

a mechanical device seems unfathomable?

That would be a submarine then.

Yes, A yellow one.

3

Just for the Dullards:

unfathomable
ʌnˈfað(ə)məb(ə)l/
adjective
1.
incapable of being fully explored or understood.



dullard
ˈdʌləd/
noun
a slow or stupid person.

fenix

actusreus wrote:

Going back to cycling speed, I understand (not fully to be honest) burst of speeds in excess of 40 mph, but not a sustained effort for long periods of time. The 44 mph speed I heard was while watching the Volta, and it was supposedly the peloton speed. That would be superhuman. Well, maybe that is why doping is so widespread in professional cycling - to make them superhuman. You tell me.

I'm also still trying to understand how the cassette makes such a difference since I'm a relative novice. Going downhill at a 45 degree decline for example, my Pinarello Gan cannot generate more than 40 mph as it simply won't spin any faster, even in the highest gear. So I still scratch my head hearing about sprints of 48 mph.

44mph sounds to me like a downhill and possibly a tailwind. Its clearly not the average speed of a stage - but 44kmh would be more reasonable as an average stage speed.

As to doping - you tell us - how many dope tests did you have in your 20 year football career ? I'd be interested to know.


You've not ridden a 45 degree incline by the way that's ridiculously steep. So you're judgement is out there.
YOU may not be able to spin faster - but a decent cyclist could. I've hit 56 mph downhill a few times in the UK - you spin as much as you can and get aero.

So - please - do tell us about how many dope tests you've had ? Thanks.

homers_double

Lets not get so irate at the OP, aren't quoted speeds in continental cycling listed in Km/h for a start?

As others have said, he may not appreciate the advantages of group riding or the mechanical benefits of a very very good bike over, without being condescending, an entry level bike.

As for the doping commets, I'd say that was fairly typical of someone who hasn't read a bit about cyclings rather tainted past and the recent efforts to clean it up.

singleton

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

Really? :shock:

I must ride with some very slow guys then as most of us don't average 25 mph for 10 miles on our club rides.

fenix

I think he means club 10m time trials.

Do clubs do 10 mile rides even ?

ugo.santalucia

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

Not really... 40 Km/h gives you a 25 minutes flat in a 10 mile TT, which is rather good and better than the average club rider. Of course 40 Km/h can be achieved with 200 Watt if you have the best aero position in the world, 250 if you are average, and 300 if you are a brick... most of us are bricks and 300 Watt for an hour is beyond most people's ability.

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

300 Watt for an hour is beyond most people's ability.

Really? I know plenty of club riders with an FTP well over 300 (Me included when I was younger). Not everyone can put out this power but its not beyond the reach on non pro cyclists or even non-competitive club riders.

ugo.santalucia

Maglia Rosa wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

300 Watt for an hour is beyond most people's ability.

Really? I know plenty of club riders with an FTP well over 300 (Me included when I was younger). Not everyone can put out this power but its not beyond the reach on non pro cyclists or even non-competitive club riders.

I think we have a slight difference in the use of the word "average"... If you think I am wrong, then you basically say "most people can average 300 Watt" which means that the average power output of a club rider is higher than 300 Watt... that's statistics

Do you stand by your comment or you want to tweak it?

mamil314

OP or his/her sources confused between kph and mph. /thread

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

300 Watt for an hour is beyond most people's ability.

Really? I know plenty of club riders with an FTP well over 300 (Me included when I was younger). Not everyone can put out this power but its not beyond the reach on non pro cyclists or even non-competitive club riders.

I think we have a slight difference in the use of the word "average"... If you think I am wrong, then you basically say "most people can average 300 Watt" which means that the average power output of a club rider is higher than 300 Watt... that's statistics

Do you stand by your comment or you want to tweak it?

I stand by it. It is within the capability for the average club rider to achieve without extensive training. By working on your fitness and putting in a few hard interval session rides on a trainer or out on the road it is not beyond their capability even if they cannot push it out now. I would say more than enough can hold about 220 - 250 with a decent effort so reaching up to 300 can be done as an amateur. Sure ,if you take the average cyclist on a bike then no, but we are talking club riders. People who spend much more time out riding. You can go into defining club riders in all sorts of groups etc etc but you don't need to be super fit or blessed with thighs like Tony Martin to do so

ugo.santalucia

Maglia Rosa wrote:

but we are talking club riders. People who spend much more time out riding. You can go into defining club riders in all sorts of groups etc etc but you don't need to be super fit or blessed with thighs like Tony Martin to do so

Clubs have changed from 20 years ago. When I was involved in ARCC we went from 20 units to 200 in the space of 5-6 years. The "competitive" edge of the club was somewhat small, say 10-20 interested in TT and just as many in road racing. The power curve was very much a bell shaped curve and the average was certainly a lot less than 300 Watt.

I think we are talking about different things here... you probably mean "the average cat 3-4 rider" and then we might even agree on a figure somewhat close to 300

markhewitt1978

actusreus wrote:

Going back to cycling speed, I understand (not fully to be honest) burst of speeds in excess of 40 mph, but not a sustained effort for long periods of time. The 44 mph speed I heard was while watching the Volta, and it was supposedly the peloton speed. That would be superhuman. Well, maybe that is why doping is so widespread in professional cycling - to make them superhuman. You tell me.

I'm not sure which part you're doubting, that they are doing 44mph at all, or how they actually achieve it?

You have to remember that pro cyclists aren't like the rest of us, even other pro-sportspeople, the majority are there because they have the right genetic traits which make them good enough, the rest of us doing the same training wouldn't compare.

Pro riders have the ability to sustain power outputs for several hours that most of us would have difficulty sustaining over a few minutes.

Plus of course the draft in a big group is very strong on a flat road with little wind those in the middle of the group can basically be putting out next to zero effort with those at the front riding flat out. With nearly 200 riders there's then plenty of fresh legs to take turns at the front.

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

but we are talking club riders. People who spend much more time out riding. You can go into defining club riders in all sorts of groups etc etc but you don't need to be super fit or blessed with thighs like Tony Martin to do so

Clubs have changed from 20 years ago. When I was involved in ARCC we went from 20 units to 200 in the space of 5-6 years. The "competitive" edge of the club was somewhat small, say 10-20 interested in TT and just as many in road racing. The power curve was very much a bell shaped curve and the average was certainly a lot less than 300 Watt.

I think we are talking about different things here... you probably mean "the average cat 3-4 rider" and then we might even agree on a figure somewhat close to 300

I agree on that sure. a lot of cat 3 riders should realistically be holding very close to 300 watts on an FTP. These are still not exactly elite though are they?

markhewitt1978

In any case I thought it was w/kg rather than raw watts which was the most useful for comparison purposes? Anyway we digress somewhat.

ugo.santalucia

Maglia Rosa wrote:

These are still not exactly elite though are they?

No, but they are not club riders either... club riders in 2016 are those you see on a sunday morning in a big loud bunch wearing club kit and showing all sorts of body shapes and carbon bits.

Maybe we can agree on "club athletes" as a definition

Anonymous

markhewitt1978 wrote:

In any case I thought it was w/kg rather than raw watts which was the most useful for comparison purposes? Anyway we digress somewhat.

Me too. There is no way that Quintana could ever produce the same watts as Chris Froome since he is so small and light you wouldnt think there was much difference after Sunday. On the flat watts are watts and power always wins. Climbing though and W/Kg will mostly win out.

Bill B

PTestTeam wrote:

Professional football for 20 years? Must have been a goalkeeper

20 years of laying on the ground faking injuries mixed in with some light running is not going to help you ride fast

bernithebiker

BikeGangster wrote:

actusreus wrote:

I don't believe you can actually generate that speed on a bicycle.

A few things that can get at least close enough:

tubular wheelset (they have less rolling resistance than clinchers imo), plus 30+mm deep rim profile.
time trial frame set
aero position/posture and use the drops
strong leg muscles
53/39 teeth chainring set

This is brilliant!

Just bang on some tubs and a standard chainset, lean down and you'll be averaging 45mph in no time! (But only if you have 'strong' legs!)

davep1

Singleton wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

Really? :shock:

I must ride with some very slow guys then as most of us don't average 25 mph for 10 miles on our club rides.

I thought this too. Our local time trial, the winner expects to ride around 25 mph. I would say club riders are more 20 mph, but that is still fast in my book.

I've done 50 mph downhill a few times. I had an awful crash a year ago so don't try any more, but you need to get low on the drops, have your belly just above the top tube and chin close to the stem. To go any faster than that, I think you need to sit on the top tube like the pros do, but that isn't comfortable and could lead to a nasty crash too.

fenix

That must be a hilly TT if the winner only does 25 mph ? Local club 5M TT was won with 32mph the other week....

Alex99

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

Not really... 40 Km/h gives you a 25 minutes flat in a 10 mile TT, which is rather good and better than the average club rider. Of course 40 Km/h can be achieved with 200 Watt if you have the best aero position in the world, 250 if you are average, and 300 if you are a brick... most of us are bricks and 300 Watt for an hour is beyond most people's ability.

I meant 10 mile TT, so yes, I mean a club rider that is competing (I'd go with the suggestion of "club athlete") and course dependent etc... So, I agree, not the average joe just got into cycling and joined a club. I was a bit out on that one.

Semantik

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Most club riders will be able to average about 25 mph for 10 miles and probably sprint up to say, 35-38 mph (just my estimate).

Not really... 40 Km/h gives you a 24 minutes flat in a 10 mile TT, which is rather good and better than the average club rider. Of course 40 Km/h can be achieved with 200 Watt if you have the best aero position in the world, 250 if you are average, and 300 if you are a brick... most of us are bricks and 300 Watt for an hour is beyond most people's ability.

FTFY

simon_masterson

Fenix wrote:

That must be a hilly TT if the winner only does 25 mph ? Local club 5M TT was won with 32mph the other week....

This - my club's 10 course is not at all fast, and good riders with aero rigs typically do 24-25. The best do 21-22. If you're a fit club racer with a TT bike, aero wheels, skinsuit and aero helmet, averaging 25mph on a pan flat DC course is very achievable.

Alex99

Simon Masterson wrote:

Fenix wrote:

That must be a hilly TT if the winner only does 25 mph ? Local club 5M TT was won with 32mph the other week....

This - my club's 10 course is not at all fast, and good riders with aero rigs typically do 24-25. The best do 21-22. If you're a fit club racer with a TT bike, aero wheels, skinsuit and aero helmet, averaging 25mph on a pan flat DC course is very achievable.

Let's just say, it depends what club you're in. If it's a racy club, then a 24 minute 10 isn't anything unusual.

simon_masterson

Alex99 wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Fenix wrote:

That must be a hilly TT if the winner only does 25 mph ? Local club 5M TT was won with 32mph the other week....

This - my club's 10 course is not at all fast, and good riders with aero rigs typically do 24-25. The best do 21-22. If you're a fit club racer with a TT bike, aero wheels, skinsuit and aero helmet, averaging 25mph on a pan flat DC course is very achievable.

Let's just say, it depends what club you're in. If it's a racy club, then a 24 minute 10 isn't anything unusual.

Agree - and my club isn't; some very fast riders and a great TT programme but very mixed ability overall.

webboo

Simon Masterson wrote:

Fenix wrote:

That must be a hilly TT if the winner only does 25 mph ? Local club 5M TT was won with 32mph the other week....

This - my club's 10 course is not at all fast, and good riders with aero rigs typically do 24-25. The best do 21-22. If you're a fit club racer with a TT bike, aero wheels, skinsuit and aero helmet, averaging 25mph on a pan flat DC course is very achievable.

If you are fit club racer riding a standard road bike on an undulating course 25 mph is very achievable.

AK_jnr

Edit. Commented in the wrong thread. Haha

singleton

ugo.santalucia wrote:

club riders in 2016 are those you see on a sunday morning in a big loud bunch wearing club kit and showing all sorts of body shapes and carbon bits.

Bingo.

Club racers (or club athletes) on the other hand are much faster.

okgo

Regarding the OP - typical speeds on the flat when rolling along even in a decent level UK amateur race will be between 25 and 30 mph, in pro races you can expect that to be much nearer 30 than 25. When going downhill you'll have seen that people get into all sorts of aero tuck positions, pedaling down a hill isn't going to be adding much, its about letting gravity do the work and getting yourself out of the wind.

Sprinting at the end of stages etc - 40mph on the flat very common, with tailwind up beyond that easily. Even for half decent amateurs in the UK. I've hit 40mph sprinting in various flat finishes to road races.

Re time trials, any half decent club ten (important, as the general standard of rider in the UK is very low, hence so many get dropped printo when they start racing at 4th cat level) is going to be won with something down towards 20 mins or under if its a quicker course. Some courses are harder than others of course. When I used too ride with Kingston Wheelers on their club ten which is fairly rolling as they go I started off winning them with 21's and if all same people turned up now, you would probably need to take at least a minute off that to be at the top and by the end of me doing them I was able to do 19's on there a couple of times (avg over 30mph for that).

Re watts, well that is a tough one, there was a study somewhere that suggested nearly anyone should be able to get to over 3.5 w/kg or nearer 4 for FTP with training. Being able to do 300w for an hour probably the mark of a half decent entry level racer assuming they're average weight 75-80g lets say.

DeVlaeminck

All true, I think the only disagreement is what constitutes an average club rider, is it a 3/4 cat that does chaingangs etc or someone that does a Sunday run and maybe a midweek ride with their mates but wouldn't last a lap of a flat crit.