"Ninjas"
fortyone
Posts: 166
After almost 4 decades of cycling I am curious to know why there are now so many ninjas riding bikes. Do these cyclists want to look the same; sheeplike? Why do they want to wear a dour, drab black "colour" and be dirty looking, and especially, do they not want to be visible to other road users at a time when the roads are the busiest they have ever been? Weird!
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Be dirty looking?!
What does that mean?0 -
Its been discussed and argued time and again on the forum.
Bright colours and fluorescents better for dull days and evening, while reflective features really come into their own in the dark where material colour has no impact (although a mixture of both is the best solution!).
The amount of black cycle clothing been worn at the minute is astonishing - I was riding against someone the other day in bright conditions, and honestly, if it wasn't for the shoes, I wouldn't have seen him till he was nearly past me.
I will never, ever wear a black top on the road - its simply asking for trouble in my opinion - and I wish the manufacturers would produce a lot more colour options, although the trend is moving that way, at last.0 -
Probably because hi-vis looks cack and people don't want to look like they're riding home from a day working for network rail.0
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Which is a pretty stupid reason. Guess it's Darwinism at work though...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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It's really weird because everyone knows red is faster.0
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My wife keeps telling me about cyclists that nobody could possibly see, but I've never seen one.
I fear she may be pulling my leg.
For the record, my shorts tend to be black or nave but most of my tops are not unlike a highlighter pen. My woolly hats tend to be dark but my cotton caps (summer) tend to be jolly and bright.
I use a small, single LED at the front and another at the rear. I have never taken primary and am alive and well at the time of writing.
As a driver, I have never seen an invisible cyclist and I think they may be a myth.
I hope I have helped in this debate.0 -
Each to his own, all my shorts are black and I have a couple of black tops. I run bright lights during the day, always a rear and front on dull days. I believe active measures are more effective than passive. There are lots of studies out there, a lot of conflicting 'evidence' on Hi Viz etc. My view is that if someone is checking their facebook account when driving it doesn't matter what colour your top is.0
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I'd love to see some analysis on this colour thing. What about black cars, am I more likely to crash into one of those than a green car.Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
Cycling blog: https://harderfasterlonger.wordpress.com/
Blog: https://supermurphtt2015.wordpress.com/
TCTP: https://supermurph.wordpress.com/0 -
I'm popping to the shops in my lunch break in a moment. I'd better grab my hi-vis vest for when I'm crossing the road. You know, just in case.0
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If I can't be seen motorists shout less abuse at me.0
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fortyone wrote:After almost 4 decades of cycling I am curious to know why there are now so many ninjas riding bikes. Do these cyclists want to look the same; sheeplike? Why do they want to wear a dour, drab black "colour" and be dirty looking, and especially, do they not want to be visible to other road users at a time when the roads are the busiest they have ever been? Weird!
Please post some pics of you in your non drab clothing so we can decide if we prefer this to the ninjas?
Actually as they are so invisible to other road users I'm not sure if you've actually made them up? Or can you see them at the Cafe stop etc? I'm intrigued!0 -
Typical responses as with every time this subject is brought up.
I ride every day and I can clearly see cyclists passing on the opposite site of the road much more clearly when they have a bright coloured jersey on. The all black outfit is very, very hard to see, especially against hedges etc.
If you can see someone all in black just as clearly, then you have obviously better eyesight than me.
Why would you put yourself in more danger on purpose for the sake of vanity? (assuming you think black looks better).
If I'm on the road, I do everything I can to make sure I'm safe and can be seen.
The black car argument doesn't hold water - you can't compare a bike and rider to a car.....the fact that people are sticking up for the all black outfit is nearly as bad as the helmet argument.
Argue all you want about it, I've read enough comments on here to realise some people have no common sense and listen to nobody anyway, so let them work away.....0 -
Why not?bsharp77 wrote:The black car argument doesn't hold water - you can't compare a bike and rider to a car.....
If you can see a black car, you should be able to see a black cyclist.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
bsharp77 wrote:Typical responses as with every time this subject is brought up.
I ride every day and I can clearly see cyclists passing on the opposite site of the road much more clearly when they have a bright coloured jersey on. The all black outfit is very, very hard to see, especially against hedges etc.
If you can see someone all in black just as clearly, then you have obviously better eyesight than me.
I'm not trying to be funny here, but maybe that is the problem...bsharp77 wrote:Why would you put yourself in more danger on purpose for the sake of vanity? (assuming you think black looks better).
If I'm on the road, I do everything I can to make sure I'm safe and can be seen.
On what basis have you come to the conclusion that you are safer wearing a colouful jersey as opposed to a black one? Have you any evidence to back up this assertion?bsharp77 wrote:The black car argument doesn't hold water - you can't compare a bike and rider to a car.....the fact that people are sticking up for the all black outfit is nearly as bad as the helmet argument.
Argue all you want about it, I've read enough comments on here to realise some people have no common sense and listen to nobody anyway, so let them work away.....
Why not? The discussion is about being seen or not being seen. Unless cyclists have some other magical force acting on them when they are in dark kit, why would the situation not be the same for black cars?0 -
Err, just possibly because cars are a bit bigger than cyclists? But then again...Craigus89 wrote:Unless cyclists have some other magical force acting on them when they are in dark kit, why would the situation not be the same for black cars?During daylight hours, black cars were up to 12% more likely be involved in crashes than white vehicles. At dawn and dusk when the light is poor, the figure rose to 47%. The visibility of grey, silver, red and blue cars can also be poor.0 -
PBlakeney wrote:
Why not?bsharp77 wrote:The black car argument doesn't hold water - you can't compare a bike and rider to a car.....
If you can see a black car, you should be able to see a black cyclist.
Really? You think you can see a bike as easily as a 6ft wide car?
Amazing.
Thats me done with this debate, it just get sillier every time its brought up.
Good luck to all the ninjas, no really, good luck - you'll need it more than the rest :shock:0 -
I wouldn't wear black on a night time (obviously) or on a murky day/evening but at the height of summer I think it's pretty visible. I think road position (e.g. not hugging the kerb when approaching t-junctions) probably plays more of a role in visibility than colour, although I'd be interested to see genuine research on the subject rather than anecdotal evidence (be that mine or anyone else's).0
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Total bullshit. I`m just as visible in black as any other colour.
And black is faster. Any idiot knows that.Trek,,,, too cool for school ,, apparently0 -
bsharp77 wrote:PBlakeney wrote:
Why not?bsharp77 wrote:The black car argument doesn't hold water - you can't compare a bike and rider to a car.....
If you can see a black car, you should be able to see a black cyclist.
Really? You think you can see a bike as easily as a 6ft wide car?
Amazing.
Thats me done with this debate, it just get sillier every time its brought up.
Good luck to all the ninjas, no really, good luck - you'll need it more than the rest :shock:
That's not what I said though is it? We are comparing a cyclist wearing a colourful jersey with one wearing a black jersey. This was likened to black cars being less visible than other cars of different colours, not comparing cars to cyclists.
My apologies, I thought that would blindingly clear.0 -
Michael-B wrote:I wouldn't wear black on a night time (obviously) or on a murky day/evening but at the height of summer I think it's pretty visible. I think road position (e.g. not hugging the kerb when approaching t-junctions) probably plays more of a role in visibility than colour, although I'd be interested to see genuine research on the subject rather than anecdotal evidence (be that mine or anyone else's).
I would as if it was night time or a murky day or evening I would have lights which I can be fairly certain would be more effective at aiding visibility than wearing a colourful jersey..0 -
Nope, try again, your argument reads exactly like you are comparing a black car to a black bike/clothing.
Looks like your argument is as clear as your outfit :twisted:
Anyway, we'll never agree, so work away with whatever you want to wear.0 -
bompington wrote:
Err, just possibly because cars are a bit bigger than cyclists? But then again...Craigus89 wrote:Unless cyclists have some other magical force acting on them when they are in dark kit, why would the situation not be the same for black cars?During daylight hours, black cars were up to 12% more likely be involved in crashes than white vehicles. At dawn and dusk when the light is poor, the figure rose to 47%. The visibility of grey, silver, red and blue cars can also be poor.
Interesting...
Also from that article:It’s not an exact science, but research using...0 -
bsharp77 wrote:Nope, try again, your argument reads exactly like you are comparing a black car to a black bike/clothing.
Looks like your argument is as clear as your outfit :twisted:
Anyway, we'll never agree, so work away with whatever you want to wear.
The first time cars were brought up in this thread (by another poster, not me)Supermurph09 wrote:I'd love to see some analysis on this colour thing. What about black cars, am I more likely to crash into one of those than a green car.
That seems pretty clear to me.0 -
Conscious or unconscious emulation. Would you rather be a badass ninja or a slightly effeminate Power Ranger?
Or maybe it's just the vast majority of kit being made in stealthy colours to match the trend for stealthy frames?0 -
The truth is that people will see a black car because they are expecting to see a car on the road. A fast moving narrow bicycle appearing out of the shaddows of a tree into bright sunny conditions for example is a damn site easier to miss if your clothing is shadowy. The eye reacts to movement, the more obvious you can make that movement as a cyclist, the better in my view.
Mark Cavendish missed the guy all in grey next to him last night and look what happened!!0 -
No amount of lights or bright clothing can be a substitute for people just looking where they are going, focusing on the number 1 priority when driving. Which is trying not to kill anyone else, this seems to have got lost somewhere?
The hi viz argument is about vulnerable road users doing what they feel is necessary to minimise risk to a level they are comfortable with, we all have a different thresholds and that's fine.
The risk with the hi viz evangelists is that it plays to the agenda of insurance companies and poor drivers/defence solicitors who seize on every opportunity to reduce financial liability and responsibility in any collision and try to put as much fault onto the cyclist/pedestrian etc so they can pay out less, get off a conviction, or increasingly, not get charged at all. This is just wrong.0 -
On a cycling forum, I don't think someone asking "Should drivers try hard not to drive into people?" is going to generate much debate.Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:No amount of lights or bright clothing can be a substitute for people just looking where they are going, focusing on the number 1 priority when driving. Which is trying not to kill anyone else, this seems to have got lost somewhere?
Everyone has the balance between being visible and not looking like a dickhead. I'm not prepared to wear hi-viz all the time, but equally, I'm going to try a bit hard to be visible. My own eyes tell me that single coloured dark clothing makes a rider less obvious (from when I'm driving). If I can better catch the eye of a driver who isn't paying as much attention as they should, that is good. So red and white it is. No all black, no camo for me.0
